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CIRCLE WITH A DOT

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  3. I am not One of the Good Trans.

I am not One of the Good Trans.

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  • tattie@eldritch.cafeT tattie@eldritch.cafe

    Which leads me to Kristi Noem's spouse, who for the purpose of this thread I shall call "N" and refer to with they/them pronouns.

    I had a conversation on Fedi about N, with someone who had firmly stated that N must be a cis man, because of the misogyny implicit to what they had been indulging in. The way their sexual narratives shamed women and womanhood, the way they were using women for their own needs. The abusive things they said to their own wife.
    7/

    tattie@eldritch.cafeT This user is from outside of this forum
    tattie@eldritch.cafeT This user is from outside of this forum
    tattie@eldritch.cafe
    wrote last edited by
    #8

    And yeah I totally understand this opinion. (And I'm not "calling it out"). But in my heart I felt it wasn't true.

    In my heart I recognised a darker reflection of who I had been, when I had been Bad and Not Really Trans; the fetishist, the crossdresser.
    8/

    tattie@eldritch.cafeT 1 Reply Last reply
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    • tattie@eldritch.cafeT tattie@eldritch.cafe

      And yeah I totally understand this opinion. (And I'm not "calling it out"). But in my heart I felt it wasn't true.

      In my heart I recognised a darker reflection of who I had been, when I had been Bad and Not Really Trans; the fetishist, the crossdresser.
      8/

      tattie@eldritch.cafeT This user is from outside of this forum
      tattie@eldritch.cafeT This user is from outside of this forum
      tattie@eldritch.cafe
      wrote last edited by
      #9

      I recognised the parody of womanhood that is donned; a parody that feels safer than realism. I recognised the shaming of femaleness; an outward projection of one's own inner shame. I even recognised the risky behaviour, because terrifying as it is, some part of you longs for the world to call you out, unmask you, see who you truly are.
      9/

      tattie@eldritch.cafeT 1 Reply Last reply
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      • tattie@eldritch.cafeT tattie@eldritch.cafe

        I recognised the parody of womanhood that is donned; a parody that feels safer than realism. I recognised the shaming of femaleness; an outward projection of one's own inner shame. I even recognised the risky behaviour, because terrifying as it is, some part of you longs for the world to call you out, unmask you, see who you truly are.
        9/

        tattie@eldritch.cafeT This user is from outside of this forum
        tattie@eldritch.cafeT This user is from outside of this forum
        tattie@eldritch.cafe
        wrote last edited by
        #10

        Let's talk misogyny.

        My first boss was a misogynist, the most blatant I've ever met. My female colleagues would mumble darkly that every time they were in a meeting with this boss, they'd be asked to make the teas and coffees and take notes, rather than being treated on an equal footing with the men.

        The boss was a cis woman.
        10/

        tattie@eldritch.cafeT 1 Reply Last reply
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        • tattie@eldritch.cafeT tattie@eldritch.cafe

          Let's talk misogyny.

          My first boss was a misogynist, the most blatant I've ever met. My female colleagues would mumble darkly that every time they were in a meeting with this boss, they'd be asked to make the teas and coffees and take notes, rather than being treated on an equal footing with the men.

          The boss was a cis woman.
          10/

          tattie@eldritch.cafeT This user is from outside of this forum
          tattie@eldritch.cafeT This user is from outside of this forum
          tattie@eldritch.cafe
          wrote last edited by
          #11

          She was this absolute fucking cliché: a loud, booming voice, suits with shoulder pads, male-coded hobbies. She'd succeeded in business by outperforming all the men around her at masculinity. Including tearing down all the women around her.

          Misogyny is misogyny.
          11/

          tattie@eldritch.cafeT 1 Reply Last reply
          0
          • tattie@eldritch.cafeT tattie@eldritch.cafe

            She was this absolute fucking cliché: a loud, booming voice, suits with shoulder pads, male-coded hobbies. She'd succeeded in business by outperforming all the men around her at masculinity. Including tearing down all the women around her.

            Misogyny is misogyny.
            11/

            tattie@eldritch.cafeT This user is from outside of this forum
            tattie@eldritch.cafeT This user is from outside of this forum
            tattie@eldritch.cafe
            wrote last edited by
            #12

            We often say the misogyny a woman absorbs from the world around her is "internalised misogyny", because it harms her first and foremost.

            I'm going to court controversy and argue that all misogyny hurts oneself first and foremost.
            12/

            tattie@eldritch.cafeT mk30@tilde.zoneM 2 Replies Last reply
            0
            • tattie@eldritch.cafeT tattie@eldritch.cafe

              We often say the misogyny a woman absorbs from the world around her is "internalised misogyny", because it harms her first and foremost.

              I'm going to court controversy and argue that all misogyny hurts oneself first and foremost.
              12/

              tattie@eldritch.cafeT This user is from outside of this forum
              tattie@eldritch.cafeT This user is from outside of this forum
              tattie@eldritch.cafe
              wrote last edited by
              #13

              Male, female, or non-binary, cis or trans, the first harm of misogyny is to limit what you yourself can be. The first shaming is always of yourself, before you turn it on others.
              13/

              tattie@eldritch.cafeT 1 Reply Last reply
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              • tattie@eldritch.cafeT tattie@eldritch.cafe

                Male, female, or non-binary, cis or trans, the first harm of misogyny is to limit what you yourself can be. The first shaming is always of yourself, before you turn it on others.
                13/

                tattie@eldritch.cafeT This user is from outside of this forum
                tattie@eldritch.cafeT This user is from outside of this forum
                tattie@eldritch.cafe
                wrote last edited by
                #14

                We are all shamed into staying within narrow confines of what is socially acceptable for our assigned gender. We narrow our possibilities, split ourselves into the part that we can be and the part that is forbidden. And then we create an inner gatekeeper whose job it is to keep us from the forbidden parts of ourselves. To police us before society can even catch us out.

                And if you're that sort of person, you then project this inner judgment externally. Onto, perhaps, your children. Or your classmates. Or the people who work for you. Or sex workers. Or your wife.
                14/

                tattie@eldritch.cafeT woozle@toot.catW 2 Replies Last reply
                0
                • tattie@eldritch.cafeT tattie@eldritch.cafe

                  We often say the misogyny a woman absorbs from the world around her is "internalised misogyny", because it harms her first and foremost.

                  I'm going to court controversy and argue that all misogyny hurts oneself first and foremost.
                  12/

                  mk30@tilde.zoneM This user is from outside of this forum
                  mk30@tilde.zoneM This user is from outside of this forum
                  mk30@tilde.zone
                  wrote last edited by
                  #15

                  @Tattie hear hear!

                  1 Reply Last reply
                  0
                  • tattie@eldritch.cafeT tattie@eldritch.cafe

                    We are all shamed into staying within narrow confines of what is socially acceptable for our assigned gender. We narrow our possibilities, split ourselves into the part that we can be and the part that is forbidden. And then we create an inner gatekeeper whose job it is to keep us from the forbidden parts of ourselves. To police us before society can even catch us out.

                    And if you're that sort of person, you then project this inner judgment externally. Onto, perhaps, your children. Or your classmates. Or the people who work for you. Or sex workers. Or your wife.
                    14/

                    tattie@eldritch.cafeT This user is from outside of this forum
                    tattie@eldritch.cafeT This user is from outside of this forum
                    tattie@eldritch.cafe
                    wrote last edited by
                    #16

                    To be a cis man is to learn that being a woman is shameful, to be derided and never emulated.

                    To be a cis woman is to learn that being a woman is somehow both shameful and obligatory.

                    To be transfem is the same, but the obligation comes from your own deepest yearnings and is thus extra shameful.

                    (I won't try to speak to the transmasc experience).
                    15/

                    tattie@eldritch.cafeT 1 Reply Last reply
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                    • tattie@eldritch.cafeT tattie@eldritch.cafe

                      To be a cis man is to learn that being a woman is shameful, to be derided and never emulated.

                      To be a cis woman is to learn that being a woman is somehow both shameful and obligatory.

                      To be transfem is the same, but the obligation comes from your own deepest yearnings and is thus extra shameful.

                      (I won't try to speak to the transmasc experience).
                      15/

                      tattie@eldritch.cafeT This user is from outside of this forum
                      tattie@eldritch.cafeT This user is from outside of this forum
                      tattie@eldritch.cafe
                      wrote last edited by
                      #17

                      Speaking of shame, let's return to N. It has now emerged that N "wants to be trans", wants to transition, wants to change their name.

                      How many times have I told a fellow transfem: "wanting to be a girl is enough"? That "wanting to be trans is the same as being trans"?

                      I would be a hypocrite to not conclude exactly what I suspected at first glance: N is transfem.
                      16/

                      tattie@eldritch.cafeT 1 Reply Last reply
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                      • tattie@eldritch.cafeT tattie@eldritch.cafe

                        Speaking of shame, let's return to N. It has now emerged that N "wants to be trans", wants to transition, wants to change their name.

                        How many times have I told a fellow transfem: "wanting to be a girl is enough"? That "wanting to be trans is the same as being trans"?

                        I would be a hypocrite to not conclude exactly what I suspected at first glance: N is transfem.
                        16/

                        tattie@eldritch.cafeT This user is from outside of this forum
                        tattie@eldritch.cafeT This user is from outside of this forum
                        tattie@eldritch.cafe
                        wrote last edited by
                        #18

                        And I know a lot of us don't want to believe that, because... they're awful. But statistically, some of us are gonna be.

                        Denying N's femaleness because they're an awful person makes no more sense than denying Kristi's femaleness. She's a fucking fascist monster, but still a woman.

                        Gender identity is not contingent on good behaviour.
                        17/

                        tattie@eldritch.cafeT 1 Reply Last reply
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                        • tattie@eldritch.cafeT tattie@eldritch.cafe

                          And I know a lot of us don't want to believe that, because... they're awful. But statistically, some of us are gonna be.

                          Denying N's femaleness because they're an awful person makes no more sense than denying Kristi's femaleness. She's a fucking fascist monster, but still a woman.

                          Gender identity is not contingent on good behaviour.
                          17/

                          tattie@eldritch.cafeT This user is from outside of this forum
                          tattie@eldritch.cafeT This user is from outside of this forum
                          tattie@eldritch.cafe
                          wrote last edited by
                          #19

                          But maybe a big reason we move to deny N's transness is because we know that every transfeminine person is judged by the actions of the worst of us. And that's the real fucking problem here.
                          18/

                          tattie@eldritch.cafeT 1 Reply Last reply
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                          • tattie@eldritch.cafeT tattie@eldritch.cafe

                            But maybe a big reason we move to deny N's transness is because we know that every transfeminine person is judged by the actions of the worst of us. And that's the real fucking problem here.
                            18/

                            tattie@eldritch.cafeT This user is from outside of this forum
                            tattie@eldritch.cafeT This user is from outside of this forum
                            tattie@eldritch.cafe
                            wrote last edited by
                            #20

                            I am not One of the Good Trans. That means, I am refusing a psychological split, where we divide the world into the good and the bad, the real and the false, the Us and the Them, the innocent and the menace.
                            19/

                            tattie@eldritch.cafeT 1 Reply Last reply
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                            • tattie@eldritch.cafeT tattie@eldritch.cafe

                              I am not One of the Good Trans. That means, I am refusing a psychological split, where we divide the world into the good and the bad, the real and the false, the Us and the Them, the innocent and the menace.
                              19/

                              tattie@eldritch.cafeT This user is from outside of this forum
                              tattie@eldritch.cafeT This user is from outside of this forum
                              tattie@eldritch.cafe
                              wrote last edited by
                              #21

                              The emotionally mature position is to acknowledge N as both harmful and deeply harmed. They clearly have grown up with a lot of misogyny, and the amount of shame they're dealing with must dwarf my own. I mean, fuck, I'm picking it up second-hand from them.

                              Yet their unenviable position doesn't forgive their actions. Misogyny is misogyny.
                              20/

                              tattie@eldritch.cafeT 1 Reply Last reply
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                              • tattie@eldritch.cafeT tattie@eldritch.cafe

                                The emotionally mature position is to acknowledge N as both harmful and deeply harmed. They clearly have grown up with a lot of misogyny, and the amount of shame they're dealing with must dwarf my own. I mean, fuck, I'm picking it up second-hand from them.

                                Yet their unenviable position doesn't forgive their actions. Misogyny is misogyny.
                                20/

                                tattie@eldritch.cafeT This user is from outside of this forum
                                tattie@eldritch.cafeT This user is from outside of this forum
                                tattie@eldritch.cafe
                                wrote last edited by
                                #22

                                The truth is that N, and of course Caitlyn Jenner, are the tip of the iceberg of objectionable trans people. Because, as I said, social change is not evenly distributed, there are a fuckload of closeted conservative trans people out there.

                                If we somehow ended transphobia tomorrow, we would find that the community of trans individuals have overnight become substantially more racist, sexist, ableist, homophobic, classist, fatphobic, etc etc etc
                                21/

                                tattie@eldritch.cafeT kats@chaosfem.twK 2 Replies Last reply
                                0
                                • tattie@eldritch.cafeT tattie@eldritch.cafe

                                  The truth is that N, and of course Caitlyn Jenner, are the tip of the iceberg of objectionable trans people. Because, as I said, social change is not evenly distributed, there are a fuckload of closeted conservative trans people out there.

                                  If we somehow ended transphobia tomorrow, we would find that the community of trans individuals have overnight become substantially more racist, sexist, ableist, homophobic, classist, fatphobic, etc etc etc
                                  21/

                                  tattie@eldritch.cafeT This user is from outside of this forum
                                  tattie@eldritch.cafeT This user is from outside of this forum
                                  tattie@eldritch.cafe
                                  wrote last edited by
                                  #23

                                  That's disquieting. Maybe that's another part of the reason why some of us want to pull closed that old "Good Trans" gate again. We want the trans community to be progressive and empathic and kind and unproblematic.

                                  But it already isn't now and we can't make it be, not if we're successful in making transness more and more socially acceptable. Trans people are just people, from all walks of life, and bring their own social ills with them.
                                  22/

                                  tattie@eldritch.cafeT 1 Reply Last reply
                                  0
                                  • tattie@eldritch.cafeT tattie@eldritch.cafe

                                    That's disquieting. Maybe that's another part of the reason why some of us want to pull closed that old "Good Trans" gate again. We want the trans community to be progressive and empathic and kind and unproblematic.

                                    But it already isn't now and we can't make it be, not if we're successful in making transness more and more socially acceptable. Trans people are just people, from all walks of life, and bring their own social ills with them.
                                    22/

                                    tattie@eldritch.cafeT This user is from outside of this forum
                                    tattie@eldritch.cafeT This user is from outside of this forum
                                    tattie@eldritch.cafe
                                    wrote last edited by
                                    #24

                                    Maybe it's past time to admit that "the trans community" is a fiction. Oh, there are trans communities, some of them wonderful. But none of them definitive.
                                    23/

                                    tattie@eldritch.cafeT 1 Reply Last reply
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                                    • tattie@eldritch.cafeT tattie@eldritch.cafe

                                      Maybe it's past time to admit that "the trans community" is a fiction. Oh, there are trans communities, some of them wonderful. But none of them definitive.
                                      23/

                                      tattie@eldritch.cafeT This user is from outside of this forum
                                      tattie@eldritch.cafeT This user is from outside of this forum
                                      tattie@eldritch.cafe
                                      wrote last edited by
                                      #25

                                      I think of the horrible transphobic trope that trans people inevitably go thru a "Nazi phase" before coming out.

                                      Where does that trope originate? 4chan.

                                      Kinda unsurprising that a website full of edgelords would end up concluding that every trans person is similarly an edgelord, because those are the ones they meet.
                                      24/

                                      tattie@eldritch.cafeT 1 Reply Last reply
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                                      • tattie@eldritch.cafeT tattie@eldritch.cafe

                                        I think of the horrible transphobic trope that trans people inevitably go thru a "Nazi phase" before coming out.

                                        Where does that trope originate? 4chan.

                                        Kinda unsurprising that a website full of edgelords would end up concluding that every trans person is similarly an edgelord, because those are the ones they meet.
                                        24/

                                        tattie@eldritch.cafeT This user is from outside of this forum
                                        tattie@eldritch.cafeT This user is from outside of this forum
                                        tattie@eldritch.cafe
                                        wrote last edited by
                                        #26

                                        Similarly, trans Reddit thinks that trans people are some way, and trans Bluesky thinks that trans people are some way, and trans Fedi thinks that trans people are some way, but these are illusions.

                                        I tell you, there are trans people out there who have never hugged a Blåhaj and don't even like trains.
                                        25/

                                        faithisleaping@anarres.familyF tattie@eldritch.cafeT feorag@wandering.shopF peachfiend@mastodon.sdf.orgP jay_peper@chaos.socialJ 6 Replies Last reply
                                        0
                                        • tattie@eldritch.cafeT tattie@eldritch.cafe

                                          Similarly, trans Reddit thinks that trans people are some way, and trans Bluesky thinks that trans people are some way, and trans Fedi thinks that trans people are some way, but these are illusions.

                                          I tell you, there are trans people out there who have never hugged a Blåhaj and don't even like trains.
                                          25/

                                          faithisleaping@anarres.familyF This user is from outside of this forum
                                          faithisleaping@anarres.familyF This user is from outside of this forum
                                          faithisleaping@anarres.family
                                          wrote last edited by
                                          #27

                                          @Tattie Blasphemy! All hail Blåhaj!

                                          introvertcatto@lgbtqia.spaceI berniedoesit@mstdn.socialB 2 Replies Last reply
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