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  3. Cis people sometimes demand #trans people rigourously define what "gender" means and explain what drives us to embody a gender other than the one assigned to us at birth.

Cis people sometimes demand #trans people rigourously define what "gender" means and explain what drives us to embody a gender other than the one assigned to us at birth.

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  • forestine@sunny.gardenF forestine@sunny.garden

    @JaxVent @Tattie yes, great points.

    btw in case you weren't aware, cis is not an acronym for anything, but is latin, and doesn't need to be capitalised

    jaxvent@lgbtqia.spaceJ This user is from outside of this forum
    jaxvent@lgbtqia.spaceJ This user is from outside of this forum
    jaxvent@lgbtqia.space
    wrote last edited by
    #27

    @forestine @Tattie

    I knew that, so don't know why I capitalise it 🤔 Thanks for the reminder 🙂

    anhedonie@chaosfem.twA 1 Reply Last reply
    0
    • jaxvent@lgbtqia.spaceJ jaxvent@lgbtqia.space

      @forestine @Tattie

      I knew that, so don't know why I capitalise it 🤔 Thanks for the reminder 🙂

      anhedonie@chaosfem.twA This user is from outside of this forum
      anhedonie@chaosfem.twA This user is from outside of this forum
      anhedonie@chaosfem.tw
      wrote last edited by
      #28

      @JaxVent @forestine @Tattie autocorrect uppercases it automatically for me every time and it's so annoying

      1 Reply Last reply
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      • tattie@eldritch.cafeT tattie@eldritch.cafe

        That's it. That's what I've got. Just my experience.

        No grand theory that explains everything, no intellectual justification. I can't explain this any more than you can.

        But my experience is real. And I cannot stand by if you're going to "debate" the reality of it.

        I exist. I'm right here. Look at me.
        Fin/

        xorlou@lgbtqia.spaceX This user is from outside of this forum
        xorlou@lgbtqia.spaceX This user is from outside of this forum
        xorlou@lgbtqia.space
        wrote last edited by
        #29

        @Tattie thanks for writing this, it very much mirrors my own experience. I tried so hard to avoid transitioning. I lived as a femme out gay man for over a decade. I'm still just at the early stages and still terrified, but I've reached the end of the road of alternative options. We shouldn't have to rigorously justify our own existence, it's just unreasonable to expect this. There probably isn't a rational explanation for being trans, it's just life and it unfolds the way it does. Sending all my love 💕

        tattie@eldritch.cafeT 1 Reply Last reply
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        • xorlou@lgbtqia.spaceX xorlou@lgbtqia.space

          @Tattie thanks for writing this, it very much mirrors my own experience. I tried so hard to avoid transitioning. I lived as a femme out gay man for over a decade. I'm still just at the early stages and still terrified, but I've reached the end of the road of alternative options. We shouldn't have to rigorously justify our own existence, it's just unreasonable to expect this. There probably isn't a rational explanation for being trans, it's just life and it unfolds the way it does. Sending all my love 💕

          tattie@eldritch.cafeT This user is from outside of this forum
          tattie@eldritch.cafeT This user is from outside of this forum
          tattie@eldritch.cafe
          wrote last edited by
          #30

          @xorlou well done on reaching this point, it's not easy! Hope transition is bringing you joy!

          xorlou@lgbtqia.spaceX 1 Reply Last reply
          0
          • tattie@eldritch.cafeT tattie@eldritch.cafe

            That's it. That's what I've got. Just my experience.

            No grand theory that explains everything, no intellectual justification. I can't explain this any more than you can.

            But my experience is real. And I cannot stand by if you're going to "debate" the reality of it.

            I exist. I'm right here. Look at me.
            Fin/

            brooke@bikeshed.vibber.netB This user is from outside of this forum
            brooke@bikeshed.vibber.netB This user is from outside of this forum
            brooke@bikeshed.vibber.net
            wrote last edited by
            #31

            @Tattie ❤ ❤ ❤

            1 Reply Last reply
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            • tattie@eldritch.cafeT tattie@eldritch.cafe

              Cis people sometimes demand #trans people rigourously define what "gender" means and explain what drives us to embody a gender other than the one assigned to us at birth. If we can't do that, they say, how can they believe us?

              But trans people shouldn't have to be philosophers and psychologists all wrapped up into one to have our experiences believed. 1/

              eruonna@lgbtqia.spaceE This user is from outside of this forum
              eruonna@lgbtqia.spaceE This user is from outside of this forum
              eruonna@lgbtqia.space
              wrote last edited by
              #32

              @Tattie
              And we shouldn't have to be endocrinologists to get proper health care or lawyers to get our documents changed...

              tattie@eldritch.cafeT 1 Reply Last reply
              0
              • eruonna@lgbtqia.spaceE eruonna@lgbtqia.space

                @Tattie
                And we shouldn't have to be endocrinologists to get proper health care or lawyers to get our documents changed...

                tattie@eldritch.cafeT This user is from outside of this forum
                tattie@eldritch.cafeT This user is from outside of this forum
                tattie@eldritch.cafe
                wrote last edited by
                #33

                @eruonna or ethicists, or sports scientists, or fashionistas, or anthropologists, or conflict mediators, or counsellors (oh wait)

                1 Reply Last reply
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                • tattie@eldritch.cafeT tattie@eldritch.cafe

                  @xorlou well done on reaching this point, it's not easy! Hope transition is bringing you joy!

                  xorlou@lgbtqia.spaceX This user is from outside of this forum
                  xorlou@lgbtqia.spaceX This user is from outside of this forum
                  xorlou@lgbtqia.space
                  wrote last edited by
                  #34

                  @Tattie thanks, yes I feel a lot of relief to finally be on HRT and I have been feeling better about myself.

                  1 Reply Last reply
                  0
                  • tattie@eldritch.cafeT tattie@eldritch.cafe

                    Cis people sometimes demand #trans people rigourously define what "gender" means and explain what drives us to embody a gender other than the one assigned to us at birth. If we can't do that, they say, how can they believe us?

                    But trans people shouldn't have to be philosophers and psychologists all wrapped up into one to have our experiences believed. 1/

                    countablenewt@mastodon.socialC This user is from outside of this forum
                    countablenewt@mastodon.socialC This user is from outside of this forum
                    countablenewt@mastodon.social
                    wrote last edited by
                    #35

                    @Tattie Cis people be like "I don't make the rules" and then literally go and make the rules

                    1 Reply Last reply
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                    • tattie@eldritch.cafeT tattie@eldritch.cafe

                      That's it. That's what I've got. Just my experience.

                      No grand theory that explains everything, no intellectual justification. I can't explain this any more than you can.

                      But my experience is real. And I cannot stand by if you're going to "debate" the reality of it.

                      I exist. I'm right here. Look at me.
                      Fin/

                      cassandra_complex@beige.partyC This user is from outside of this forum
                      cassandra_complex@beige.partyC This user is from outside of this forum
                      cassandra_complex@beige.party
                      wrote last edited by
                      #36

                      @Tattie
                      A few people already said similar, but plenty of social sciences have already done all that work of defining gender so we shouldn't have to.

                      It's not that transphobes can't find the information, it's that they don't care to listen to it anyway because it doesn't validate their own hateful beliefs.

                      It'd also help if they stopped burning our studies, books, and science centers down then pretending it's a new idea to be a transgender person.

                      1 Reply Last reply
                      0
                      • tattie@eldritch.cafeT tattie@eldritch.cafe

                        That's it. That's what I've got. Just my experience.

                        No grand theory that explains everything, no intellectual justification. I can't explain this any more than you can.

                        But my experience is real. And I cannot stand by if you're going to "debate" the reality of it.

                        I exist. I'm right here. Look at me.
                        Fin/

                        sternentau@don.linxx.netS This user is from outside of this forum
                        sternentau@don.linxx.netS This user is from outside of this forum
                        sternentau@don.linxx.net
                        wrote last edited by
                        #37

                        @Tattie 💜

                        1 Reply Last reply
                        0
                        • tattie@eldritch.cafeT tattie@eldritch.cafe

                          Cis people sometimes demand #trans people rigourously define what "gender" means and explain what drives us to embody a gender other than the one assigned to us at birth. If we can't do that, they say, how can they believe us?

                          But trans people shouldn't have to be philosophers and psychologists all wrapped up into one to have our experiences believed. 1/

                          richrarobi@mastodon.socialR This user is from outside of this forum
                          richrarobi@mastodon.socialR This user is from outside of this forum
                          richrarobi@mastodon.social
                          wrote last edited by
                          #38

                          @Tattie

                          Ask them if they can read. They should read 'Bitch' by Lucy Cooke, a modern zoologist, unlike the Victorian pseudo-scientists revered by the out of touch British Government and obsolete 'supreme' court.

                          Link Preview Image
                          Lucy Cooke - Wikipedia

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                          • tattie@eldritch.cafeT tattie@eldritch.cafe

                            Cis people sometimes demand #trans people rigourously define what "gender" means and explain what drives us to embody a gender other than the one assigned to us at birth. If we can't do that, they say, how can they believe us?

                            But trans people shouldn't have to be philosophers and psychologists all wrapped up into one to have our experiences believed. 1/

                            wynke@mendeddrum.orgW This user is from outside of this forum
                            wynke@mendeddrum.orgW This user is from outside of this forum
                            wynke@mendeddrum.org
                            wrote last edited by
                            #39

                            @Tattie One does not have to understand a thing to accept it and believe other people's experiences.

                            1 Reply Last reply
                            0
                            • tattie@eldritch.cafeT tattie@eldritch.cafe

                              Cis people sometimes demand #trans people rigourously define what "gender" means and explain what drives us to embody a gender other than the one assigned to us at birth. If we can't do that, they say, how can they believe us?

                              But trans people shouldn't have to be philosophers and psychologists all wrapped up into one to have our experiences believed. 1/

                              hypostase@bsd.networkH This user is from outside of this forum
                              hypostase@bsd.networkH This user is from outside of this forum
                              hypostase@bsd.network
                              wrote last edited by
                              #40

                              @Tattie The problem is that the concept of gender is so entirely arbitrary, that they need rigid boundaries to keep it in place. So much so that they will ignore the science of sex, just so as not to hurt their illusions.

                              It was the same with animal sexuality.

                              1 Reply Last reply
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                              • tattie@eldritch.cafeT tattie@eldritch.cafe

                                That's it. That's what I've got. Just my experience.

                                No grand theory that explains everything, no intellectual justification. I can't explain this any more than you can.

                                But my experience is real. And I cannot stand by if you're going to "debate" the reality of it.

                                I exist. I'm right here. Look at me.
                                Fin/

                                christianriegel@digitalcourage.socialC This user is from outside of this forum
                                christianriegel@digitalcourage.socialC This user is from outside of this forum
                                christianriegel@digitalcourage.social
                                wrote last edited by
                                #41

                                @Tattie

                                After all this, after all your journey, your questions, your answers... Why should I as some random cis person tell you who you are?? You're clearly the expert on yourself, how much audacity would I need to conjure??

                                Bonus fun fact: even at the beginning of their journey, people are more the expert on themselves than we can ever be. Accept their judgement!

                                1 Reply Last reply
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                                • burnoutqueen@todon.nlB burnoutqueen@todon.nl

                                  @Tattie

                                  I'm happier as a girl and the evidence suggests it has to do with my brain but that's all I can conclusively say

                                  G This user is from outside of this forum
                                  G This user is from outside of this forum
                                  goedelchen@mastodontech.de
                                  wrote last edited by
                                  #42

                                  @burnoutqueen @Tattie “It has to do with the brain” is the only thing I could remember after listening to Robert Sapolsky talk about the topic

                                  - YouTube

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                                  burnoutqueen@todon.nlB 1 Reply Last reply
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                                  • G goedelchen@mastodontech.de

                                    @burnoutqueen @Tattie “It has to do with the brain” is the only thing I could remember after listening to Robert Sapolsky talk about the topic

                                    - YouTube

                                    Auf YouTube findest du die angesagtesten Videos und Tracks. Außerdem kannst du eigene Inhalte hochladen und mit Freunden oder gleich der ganzen Welt teilen.

                                    favicon

                                    (www.youtube.com)

                                    burnoutqueen@todon.nlB This user is from outside of this forum
                                    burnoutqueen@todon.nlB This user is from outside of this forum
                                    burnoutqueen@todon.nl
                                    wrote last edited by
                                    #43

                                    @goedelchen

                                    I love that talk.

                                    1 Reply Last reply
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                                    • tattie@eldritch.cafeT tattie@eldritch.cafe

                                      Cis people sometimes demand #trans people rigourously define what "gender" means and explain what drives us to embody a gender other than the one assigned to us at birth. If we can't do that, they say, how can they believe us?

                                      But trans people shouldn't have to be philosophers and psychologists all wrapped up into one to have our experiences believed. 1/

                                      edthechem@mas.toE This user is from outside of this forum
                                      edthechem@mas.toE This user is from outside of this forum
                                      edthechem@mas.to
                                      wrote last edited by
                                      #44

                                      @Tattie When you put it like that, one thing really stands out to me, even as a cis man.

                                      That letter on the birth certificate is made based on physical presentation at birth, with a presumed link to development years later and an assumption of generalized characteristics therefrom, barring lesser-seen phenomena.

                                      (Verbose in an attempt to avoid loaded terms)

                                      Although it fits for me, if someone feels mismatched, the question you describe being forced to face is a reversal of the onus of proof.

                                      edthechem@mas.toE 1 Reply Last reply
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                                      • edthechem@mas.toE edthechem@mas.to

                                        @Tattie When you put it like that, one thing really stands out to me, even as a cis man.

                                        That letter on the birth certificate is made based on physical presentation at birth, with a presumed link to development years later and an assumption of generalized characteristics therefrom, barring lesser-seen phenomena.

                                        (Verbose in an attempt to avoid loaded terms)

                                        Although it fits for me, if someone feels mismatched, the question you describe being forced to face is a reversal of the onus of proof.

                                        edthechem@mas.toE This user is from outside of this forum
                                        edthechem@mas.toE This user is from outside of this forum
                                        edthechem@mas.to
                                        wrote last edited by
                                        #45

                                        @Tattie After all, childhood development tracking is seeing if the way children grow up follows an expected pattern, including gender/sex-linked things.

                                        It follows that people are sometimes expected not to follow those patterns, for a multitude of reasons (not to fall into a medicalization trap other sexual minorities suffered horrendously from).

                                        Therefore, that letter doesn't tell the entire story for everyone and moreover, society recognizes it.

                                        1 Reply Last reply
                                        0
                                        • tattie@eldritch.cafeT tattie@eldritch.cafe

                                          That's it. That's what I've got. Just my experience.

                                          No grand theory that explains everything, no intellectual justification. I can't explain this any more than you can.

                                          But my experience is real. And I cannot stand by if you're going to "debate" the reality of it.

                                          I exist. I'm right here. Look at me.
                                          Fin/

                                          azuaron@cyberpunk.lolA This user is from outside of this forum
                                          azuaron@cyberpunk.lolA This user is from outside of this forum
                                          azuaron@cyberpunk.lol
                                          wrote last edited by
                                          #46

                                          @Tattie I'm a cis guy. I've always been in favor of trans rights since I learned trans people were a thing, but I did spend a number of years not really getting why someone would be trans.

                                          Then one day I just had the thought, "What if I woke up tomorrow with a female body?" And after the obvious jokes that immediately came to mind, I actually thought about being stuck in the wrong body, unable to get back, and I had to stop because I almost gave myself a panic attack.

                                          I'm an on-again-off-again recreational author, so I frequently find myself in unusual thought experiments. Which is to say, I hadn't intended to have a moment of profound empathy for trans people, but as soon as I calmed down I thought, Oh, this must be how a lot of trans people feel all time.

                                          All of that to say: I see you. It's real. I think most cis people, if they put just a few minutes into the activity, would be forced to admit that if they were suddenly body swapped, they'd be desperate to get back to their correct body. Most cis people just never seriously confront the thought.

                                          kats@chaosfem.twK tattie@eldritch.cafeT nikkileah@mendeddrum.orgN alberto_cottica@mastodon.greenA 4 Replies Last reply
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