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  3. Cis people sometimes demand #trans people rigourously define what "gender" means and explain what drives us to embody a gender other than the one assigned to us at birth.

Cis people sometimes demand #trans people rigourously define what "gender" means and explain what drives us to embody a gender other than the one assigned to us at birth.

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  • jrdepriest@infosec.exchangeJ jrdepriest@infosec.exchange

    @Tattie cousin told me, after reading it, that her 25 year old AMAB child thinks he might be transgender. They are currently dating a trans woman, too. Thank you for helping to open up that dialogue.

    tattie@eldritch.cafeT This user is from outside of this forum
    tattie@eldritch.cafeT This user is from outside of this forum
    tattie@eldritch.cafe
    wrote last edited by
    #22

    @jrdepriest oh my gosh, I'm so happy that I could be part of that!

    1 Reply Last reply
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    • tattie@eldritch.cafeT tattie@eldritch.cafe

      Cis people sometimes demand #trans people rigourously define what "gender" means and explain what drives us to embody a gender other than the one assigned to us at birth. If we can't do that, they say, how can they believe us?

      But trans people shouldn't have to be philosophers and psychologists all wrapped up into one to have our experiences believed. 1/

      forestine@sunny.gardenF This user is from outside of this forum
      forestine@sunny.gardenF This user is from outside of this forum
      forestine@sunny.garden
      wrote last edited by
      #23

      @Tattie also a cis person who has never interrogated their gender will get real defensive if you try and flip the question on them. they'll say "i just am" or something

      jaxvent@lgbtqia.spaceJ 1 Reply Last reply
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      • forestine@sunny.gardenF forestine@sunny.garden

        @Tattie also a cis person who has never interrogated their gender will get real defensive if you try and flip the question on them. they'll say "i just am" or something

        jaxvent@lgbtqia.spaceJ This user is from outside of this forum
        jaxvent@lgbtqia.spaceJ This user is from outside of this forum
        jaxvent@lgbtqia.space
        wrote last edited by
        #24

        @forestine @Tattie

        Yep, funny that πŸ˜…

        I'm CIS and have never been able to explain why I am CIS, why I am happy with my gender matching my biological sex. I just am. And I don't believe any CIS person really could. So why on earth should any trans person be expected to?

        forestine@sunny.gardenF 1 Reply Last reply
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        • jaxvent@lgbtqia.spaceJ jaxvent@lgbtqia.space

          @forestine @Tattie

          Yep, funny that πŸ˜…

          I'm CIS and have never been able to explain why I am CIS, why I am happy with my gender matching my biological sex. I just am. And I don't believe any CIS person really could. So why on earth should any trans person be expected to?

          forestine@sunny.gardenF This user is from outside of this forum
          forestine@sunny.gardenF This user is from outside of this forum
          forestine@sunny.garden
          wrote last edited by
          #25

          @JaxVent @Tattie yes, great points.

          btw in case you weren't aware, cis is not an acronym for anything, but is latin, and doesn't need to be capitalised

          jaxvent@lgbtqia.spaceJ 1 Reply Last reply
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          • tattie@eldritch.cafeT tattie@eldritch.cafe

            That's it. That's what I've got. Just my experience.

            No grand theory that explains everything, no intellectual justification. I can't explain this any more than you can.

            But my experience is real. And I cannot stand by if you're going to "debate" the reality of it.

            I exist. I'm right here. Look at me.
            Fin/

            williampietri@sfba.socialW This user is from outside of this forum
            williampietri@sfba.socialW This user is from outside of this forum
            williampietri@sfba.social
            wrote last edited by
            #26

            @Tattie Thanks! I appreciate you sharing this. It's lovely. Congrats on finding ways to feel like you.

            I also think it's wild that cis people are expecting you to explain gender to them. My experience asking cis people to explain this whole gender thing is that either they flop around like a fish on a riverbank or they fall back on PLUTO IS A PLANET repetition of too-simple things that they learned when they were 7 and haven't thought about since.

            1 Reply Last reply
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            • forestine@sunny.gardenF forestine@sunny.garden

              @JaxVent @Tattie yes, great points.

              btw in case you weren't aware, cis is not an acronym for anything, but is latin, and doesn't need to be capitalised

              jaxvent@lgbtqia.spaceJ This user is from outside of this forum
              jaxvent@lgbtqia.spaceJ This user is from outside of this forum
              jaxvent@lgbtqia.space
              wrote last edited by
              #27

              @forestine @Tattie

              I knew that, so don't know why I capitalise it πŸ€” Thanks for the reminder πŸ™‚

              anhedonie@chaosfem.twA 1 Reply Last reply
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              • jaxvent@lgbtqia.spaceJ jaxvent@lgbtqia.space

                @forestine @Tattie

                I knew that, so don't know why I capitalise it πŸ€” Thanks for the reminder πŸ™‚

                anhedonie@chaosfem.twA This user is from outside of this forum
                anhedonie@chaosfem.twA This user is from outside of this forum
                anhedonie@chaosfem.tw
                wrote last edited by
                #28

                @JaxVent @forestine @Tattie autocorrect uppercases it automatically for me every time and it's so annoying

                1 Reply Last reply
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                • tattie@eldritch.cafeT tattie@eldritch.cafe

                  That's it. That's what I've got. Just my experience.

                  No grand theory that explains everything, no intellectual justification. I can't explain this any more than you can.

                  But my experience is real. And I cannot stand by if you're going to "debate" the reality of it.

                  I exist. I'm right here. Look at me.
                  Fin/

                  xorlou@lgbtqia.spaceX This user is from outside of this forum
                  xorlou@lgbtqia.spaceX This user is from outside of this forum
                  xorlou@lgbtqia.space
                  wrote last edited by
                  #29

                  @Tattie thanks for writing this, it very much mirrors my own experience. I tried so hard to avoid transitioning. I lived as a femme out gay man for over a decade. I'm still just at the early stages and still terrified, but I've reached the end of the road of alternative options. We shouldn't have to rigorously justify our own existence, it's just unreasonable to expect this. There probably isn't a rational explanation for being trans, it's just life and it unfolds the way it does. Sending all my love πŸ’•

                  tattie@eldritch.cafeT 1 Reply Last reply
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                  • xorlou@lgbtqia.spaceX xorlou@lgbtqia.space

                    @Tattie thanks for writing this, it very much mirrors my own experience. I tried so hard to avoid transitioning. I lived as a femme out gay man for over a decade. I'm still just at the early stages and still terrified, but I've reached the end of the road of alternative options. We shouldn't have to rigorously justify our own existence, it's just unreasonable to expect this. There probably isn't a rational explanation for being trans, it's just life and it unfolds the way it does. Sending all my love πŸ’•

                    tattie@eldritch.cafeT This user is from outside of this forum
                    tattie@eldritch.cafeT This user is from outside of this forum
                    tattie@eldritch.cafe
                    wrote last edited by
                    #30

                    @xorlou well done on reaching this point, it's not easy! Hope transition is bringing you joy!

                    xorlou@lgbtqia.spaceX 1 Reply Last reply
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                    • tattie@eldritch.cafeT tattie@eldritch.cafe

                      That's it. That's what I've got. Just my experience.

                      No grand theory that explains everything, no intellectual justification. I can't explain this any more than you can.

                      But my experience is real. And I cannot stand by if you're going to "debate" the reality of it.

                      I exist. I'm right here. Look at me.
                      Fin/

                      brooke@bikeshed.vibber.netB This user is from outside of this forum
                      brooke@bikeshed.vibber.netB This user is from outside of this forum
                      brooke@bikeshed.vibber.net
                      wrote last edited by
                      #31

                      @Tattie ❀ ❀ ❀

                      1 Reply Last reply
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                      • tattie@eldritch.cafeT tattie@eldritch.cafe

                        Cis people sometimes demand #trans people rigourously define what "gender" means and explain what drives us to embody a gender other than the one assigned to us at birth. If we can't do that, they say, how can they believe us?

                        But trans people shouldn't have to be philosophers and psychologists all wrapped up into one to have our experiences believed. 1/

                        eruonna@lgbtqia.spaceE This user is from outside of this forum
                        eruonna@lgbtqia.spaceE This user is from outside of this forum
                        eruonna@lgbtqia.space
                        wrote last edited by
                        #32

                        @Tattie
                        And we shouldn't have to be endocrinologists to get proper health care or lawyers to get our documents changed...

                        tattie@eldritch.cafeT 1 Reply Last reply
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                        • eruonna@lgbtqia.spaceE eruonna@lgbtqia.space

                          @Tattie
                          And we shouldn't have to be endocrinologists to get proper health care or lawyers to get our documents changed...

                          tattie@eldritch.cafeT This user is from outside of this forum
                          tattie@eldritch.cafeT This user is from outside of this forum
                          tattie@eldritch.cafe
                          wrote last edited by
                          #33

                          @eruonna or ethicists, or sports scientists, or fashionistas, or anthropologists, or conflict mediators, or counsellors (oh wait)

                          1 Reply Last reply
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                          • tattie@eldritch.cafeT tattie@eldritch.cafe

                            @xorlou well done on reaching this point, it's not easy! Hope transition is bringing you joy!

                            xorlou@lgbtqia.spaceX This user is from outside of this forum
                            xorlou@lgbtqia.spaceX This user is from outside of this forum
                            xorlou@lgbtqia.space
                            wrote last edited by
                            #34

                            @Tattie thanks, yes I feel a lot of relief to finally be on HRT and I have been feeling better about myself.

                            1 Reply Last reply
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                            • tattie@eldritch.cafeT tattie@eldritch.cafe

                              Cis people sometimes demand #trans people rigourously define what "gender" means and explain what drives us to embody a gender other than the one assigned to us at birth. If we can't do that, they say, how can they believe us?

                              But trans people shouldn't have to be philosophers and psychologists all wrapped up into one to have our experiences believed. 1/

                              countablenewt@mastodon.socialC This user is from outside of this forum
                              countablenewt@mastodon.socialC This user is from outside of this forum
                              countablenewt@mastodon.social
                              wrote last edited by
                              #35

                              @Tattie Cis people be like "I don't make the rules" and then literally go and make the rules

                              1 Reply Last reply
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                              • tattie@eldritch.cafeT tattie@eldritch.cafe

                                That's it. That's what I've got. Just my experience.

                                No grand theory that explains everything, no intellectual justification. I can't explain this any more than you can.

                                But my experience is real. And I cannot stand by if you're going to "debate" the reality of it.

                                I exist. I'm right here. Look at me.
                                Fin/

                                cassandra_complex@beige.partyC This user is from outside of this forum
                                cassandra_complex@beige.partyC This user is from outside of this forum
                                cassandra_complex@beige.party
                                wrote last edited by
                                #36

                                @Tattie
                                A few people already said similar, but plenty of social sciences have already done all that work of defining gender so we shouldn't have to.

                                It's not that transphobes can't find the information, it's that they don't care to listen to it anyway because it doesn't validate their own hateful beliefs.

                                It'd also help if they stopped burning our studies, books, and science centers down then pretending it's a new idea to be a transgender person.

                                1 Reply Last reply
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                                • tattie@eldritch.cafeT tattie@eldritch.cafe

                                  That's it. That's what I've got. Just my experience.

                                  No grand theory that explains everything, no intellectual justification. I can't explain this any more than you can.

                                  But my experience is real. And I cannot stand by if you're going to "debate" the reality of it.

                                  I exist. I'm right here. Look at me.
                                  Fin/

                                  sternentau@don.linxx.netS This user is from outside of this forum
                                  sternentau@don.linxx.netS This user is from outside of this forum
                                  sternentau@don.linxx.net
                                  wrote last edited by
                                  #37

                                  @Tattie πŸ’œ

                                  1 Reply Last reply
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                                  • tattie@eldritch.cafeT tattie@eldritch.cafe

                                    Cis people sometimes demand #trans people rigourously define what "gender" means and explain what drives us to embody a gender other than the one assigned to us at birth. If we can't do that, they say, how can they believe us?

                                    But trans people shouldn't have to be philosophers and psychologists all wrapped up into one to have our experiences believed. 1/

                                    richrarobi@mastodon.socialR This user is from outside of this forum
                                    richrarobi@mastodon.socialR This user is from outside of this forum
                                    richrarobi@mastodon.social
                                    wrote last edited by
                                    #38

                                    @Tattie

                                    Ask them if they can read. They should read 'Bitch' by Lucy Cooke, a modern zoologist, unlike the Victorian pseudo-scientists revered by the out of touch British Government and obsolete 'supreme' court.

                                    Link Preview Image
                                    Lucy Cooke - Wikipedia

                                    favicon

                                    (en.wikipedia.org)

                                    1 Reply Last reply
                                    0
                                    • tattie@eldritch.cafeT tattie@eldritch.cafe

                                      Cis people sometimes demand #trans people rigourously define what "gender" means and explain what drives us to embody a gender other than the one assigned to us at birth. If we can't do that, they say, how can they believe us?

                                      But trans people shouldn't have to be philosophers and psychologists all wrapped up into one to have our experiences believed. 1/

                                      wynke@mendeddrum.orgW This user is from outside of this forum
                                      wynke@mendeddrum.orgW This user is from outside of this forum
                                      wynke@mendeddrum.org
                                      wrote last edited by
                                      #39

                                      @Tattie One does not have to understand a thing to accept it and believe other people's experiences.

                                      1 Reply Last reply
                                      0
                                      • tattie@eldritch.cafeT tattie@eldritch.cafe

                                        Cis people sometimes demand #trans people rigourously define what "gender" means and explain what drives us to embody a gender other than the one assigned to us at birth. If we can't do that, they say, how can they believe us?

                                        But trans people shouldn't have to be philosophers and psychologists all wrapped up into one to have our experiences believed. 1/

                                        hypostase@bsd.networkH This user is from outside of this forum
                                        hypostase@bsd.networkH This user is from outside of this forum
                                        hypostase@bsd.network
                                        wrote last edited by
                                        #40

                                        @Tattie The problem is that the concept of gender is so entirely arbitrary, that they need rigid boundaries to keep it in place. So much so that they will ignore the science of sex, just so as not to hurt their illusions.

                                        It was the same with animal sexuality.

                                        1 Reply Last reply
                                        0
                                        • tattie@eldritch.cafeT tattie@eldritch.cafe

                                          That's it. That's what I've got. Just my experience.

                                          No grand theory that explains everything, no intellectual justification. I can't explain this any more than you can.

                                          But my experience is real. And I cannot stand by if you're going to "debate" the reality of it.

                                          I exist. I'm right here. Look at me.
                                          Fin/

                                          christianriegel@digitalcourage.socialC This user is from outside of this forum
                                          christianriegel@digitalcourage.socialC This user is from outside of this forum
                                          christianriegel@digitalcourage.social
                                          wrote last edited by
                                          #41

                                          @Tattie

                                          After all this, after all your journey, your questions, your answers... Why should I as some random cis person tell you who you are?? You're clearly the expert on yourself, how much audacity would I need to conjure??

                                          Bonus fun fact: even at the beginning of their journey, people are more the expert on themselves than we can ever be. Accept their judgement!

                                          1 Reply Last reply
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