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  3. Cis people sometimes demand #trans people rigourously define what "gender" means and explain what drives us to embody a gender other than the one assigned to us at birth.

Cis people sometimes demand #trans people rigourously define what "gender" means and explain what drives us to embody a gender other than the one assigned to us at birth.

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  • jaxvent@lgbtqia.spaceJ jaxvent@lgbtqia.space

    @forestine @Tattie

    Yep, funny that 😅

    I'm CIS and have never been able to explain why I am CIS, why I am happy with my gender matching my biological sex. I just am. And I don't believe any CIS person really could. So why on earth should any trans person be expected to?

    forestine@sunny.gardenF This user is from outside of this forum
    forestine@sunny.gardenF This user is from outside of this forum
    forestine@sunny.garden
    wrote last edited by
    #25

    @JaxVent @Tattie yes, great points.

    btw in case you weren't aware, cis is not an acronym for anything, but is latin, and doesn't need to be capitalised

    jaxvent@lgbtqia.spaceJ 1 Reply Last reply
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    • tattie@eldritch.cafeT tattie@eldritch.cafe

      That's it. That's what I've got. Just my experience.

      No grand theory that explains everything, no intellectual justification. I can't explain this any more than you can.

      But my experience is real. And I cannot stand by if you're going to "debate" the reality of it.

      I exist. I'm right here. Look at me.
      Fin/

      williampietri@sfba.socialW This user is from outside of this forum
      williampietri@sfba.socialW This user is from outside of this forum
      williampietri@sfba.social
      wrote last edited by
      #26

      @Tattie Thanks! I appreciate you sharing this. It's lovely. Congrats on finding ways to feel like you.

      I also think it's wild that cis people are expecting you to explain gender to them. My experience asking cis people to explain this whole gender thing is that either they flop around like a fish on a riverbank or they fall back on PLUTO IS A PLANET repetition of too-simple things that they learned when they were 7 and haven't thought about since.

      1 Reply Last reply
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      • forestine@sunny.gardenF forestine@sunny.garden

        @JaxVent @Tattie yes, great points.

        btw in case you weren't aware, cis is not an acronym for anything, but is latin, and doesn't need to be capitalised

        jaxvent@lgbtqia.spaceJ This user is from outside of this forum
        jaxvent@lgbtqia.spaceJ This user is from outside of this forum
        jaxvent@lgbtqia.space
        wrote last edited by
        #27

        @forestine @Tattie

        I knew that, so don't know why I capitalise it 🤔 Thanks for the reminder 🙂

        anhedonie@chaosfem.twA 1 Reply Last reply
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        • jaxvent@lgbtqia.spaceJ jaxvent@lgbtqia.space

          @forestine @Tattie

          I knew that, so don't know why I capitalise it 🤔 Thanks for the reminder 🙂

          anhedonie@chaosfem.twA This user is from outside of this forum
          anhedonie@chaosfem.twA This user is from outside of this forum
          anhedonie@chaosfem.tw
          wrote last edited by
          #28

          @JaxVent @forestine @Tattie autocorrect uppercases it automatically for me every time and it's so annoying

          1 Reply Last reply
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          • tattie@eldritch.cafeT tattie@eldritch.cafe

            That's it. That's what I've got. Just my experience.

            No grand theory that explains everything, no intellectual justification. I can't explain this any more than you can.

            But my experience is real. And I cannot stand by if you're going to "debate" the reality of it.

            I exist. I'm right here. Look at me.
            Fin/

            xorlou@lgbtqia.spaceX This user is from outside of this forum
            xorlou@lgbtqia.spaceX This user is from outside of this forum
            xorlou@lgbtqia.space
            wrote last edited by
            #29

            @Tattie thanks for writing this, it very much mirrors my own experience. I tried so hard to avoid transitioning. I lived as a femme out gay man for over a decade. I'm still just at the early stages and still terrified, but I've reached the end of the road of alternative options. We shouldn't have to rigorously justify our own existence, it's just unreasonable to expect this. There probably isn't a rational explanation for being trans, it's just life and it unfolds the way it does. Sending all my love 💕

            tattie@eldritch.cafeT 1 Reply Last reply
            0
            • xorlou@lgbtqia.spaceX xorlou@lgbtqia.space

              @Tattie thanks for writing this, it very much mirrors my own experience. I tried so hard to avoid transitioning. I lived as a femme out gay man for over a decade. I'm still just at the early stages and still terrified, but I've reached the end of the road of alternative options. We shouldn't have to rigorously justify our own existence, it's just unreasonable to expect this. There probably isn't a rational explanation for being trans, it's just life and it unfolds the way it does. Sending all my love 💕

              tattie@eldritch.cafeT This user is from outside of this forum
              tattie@eldritch.cafeT This user is from outside of this forum
              tattie@eldritch.cafe
              wrote last edited by
              #30

              @xorlou well done on reaching this point, it's not easy! Hope transition is bringing you joy!

              xorlou@lgbtqia.spaceX 1 Reply Last reply
              0
              • tattie@eldritch.cafeT tattie@eldritch.cafe

                That's it. That's what I've got. Just my experience.

                No grand theory that explains everything, no intellectual justification. I can't explain this any more than you can.

                But my experience is real. And I cannot stand by if you're going to "debate" the reality of it.

                I exist. I'm right here. Look at me.
                Fin/

                brooke@bikeshed.vibber.netB This user is from outside of this forum
                brooke@bikeshed.vibber.netB This user is from outside of this forum
                brooke@bikeshed.vibber.net
                wrote last edited by
                #31

                @Tattie ❤ ❤ ❤

                1 Reply Last reply
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                • tattie@eldritch.cafeT tattie@eldritch.cafe

                  Cis people sometimes demand #trans people rigourously define what "gender" means and explain what drives us to embody a gender other than the one assigned to us at birth. If we can't do that, they say, how can they believe us?

                  But trans people shouldn't have to be philosophers and psychologists all wrapped up into one to have our experiences believed. 1/

                  eruonna@lgbtqia.spaceE This user is from outside of this forum
                  eruonna@lgbtqia.spaceE This user is from outside of this forum
                  eruonna@lgbtqia.space
                  wrote last edited by
                  #32

                  @Tattie
                  And we shouldn't have to be endocrinologists to get proper health care or lawyers to get our documents changed...

                  tattie@eldritch.cafeT 1 Reply Last reply
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                  • eruonna@lgbtqia.spaceE eruonna@lgbtqia.space

                    @Tattie
                    And we shouldn't have to be endocrinologists to get proper health care or lawyers to get our documents changed...

                    tattie@eldritch.cafeT This user is from outside of this forum
                    tattie@eldritch.cafeT This user is from outside of this forum
                    tattie@eldritch.cafe
                    wrote last edited by
                    #33

                    @eruonna or ethicists, or sports scientists, or fashionistas, or anthropologists, or conflict mediators, or counsellors (oh wait)

                    1 Reply Last reply
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                    • tattie@eldritch.cafeT tattie@eldritch.cafe

                      @xorlou well done on reaching this point, it's not easy! Hope transition is bringing you joy!

                      xorlou@lgbtqia.spaceX This user is from outside of this forum
                      xorlou@lgbtqia.spaceX This user is from outside of this forum
                      xorlou@lgbtqia.space
                      wrote last edited by
                      #34

                      @Tattie thanks, yes I feel a lot of relief to finally be on HRT and I have been feeling better about myself.

                      1 Reply Last reply
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                      • tattie@eldritch.cafeT tattie@eldritch.cafe

                        Cis people sometimes demand #trans people rigourously define what "gender" means and explain what drives us to embody a gender other than the one assigned to us at birth. If we can't do that, they say, how can they believe us?

                        But trans people shouldn't have to be philosophers and psychologists all wrapped up into one to have our experiences believed. 1/

                        countablenewt@mastodon.socialC This user is from outside of this forum
                        countablenewt@mastodon.socialC This user is from outside of this forum
                        countablenewt@mastodon.social
                        wrote last edited by
                        #35

                        @Tattie Cis people be like "I don't make the rules" and then literally go and make the rules

                        1 Reply Last reply
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                        • tattie@eldritch.cafeT tattie@eldritch.cafe

                          That's it. That's what I've got. Just my experience.

                          No grand theory that explains everything, no intellectual justification. I can't explain this any more than you can.

                          But my experience is real. And I cannot stand by if you're going to "debate" the reality of it.

                          I exist. I'm right here. Look at me.
                          Fin/

                          cassandra_complex@beige.partyC This user is from outside of this forum
                          cassandra_complex@beige.partyC This user is from outside of this forum
                          cassandra_complex@beige.party
                          wrote last edited by
                          #36

                          @Tattie
                          A few people already said similar, but plenty of social sciences have already done all that work of defining gender so we shouldn't have to.

                          It's not that transphobes can't find the information, it's that they don't care to listen to it anyway because it doesn't validate their own hateful beliefs.

                          It'd also help if they stopped burning our studies, books, and science centers down then pretending it's a new idea to be a transgender person.

                          1 Reply Last reply
                          0
                          • tattie@eldritch.cafeT tattie@eldritch.cafe

                            That's it. That's what I've got. Just my experience.

                            No grand theory that explains everything, no intellectual justification. I can't explain this any more than you can.

                            But my experience is real. And I cannot stand by if you're going to "debate" the reality of it.

                            I exist. I'm right here. Look at me.
                            Fin/

                            sternentau@don.linxx.netS This user is from outside of this forum
                            sternentau@don.linxx.netS This user is from outside of this forum
                            sternentau@don.linxx.net
                            wrote last edited by
                            #37

                            @Tattie 💜

                            1 Reply Last reply
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                            • tattie@eldritch.cafeT tattie@eldritch.cafe

                              Cis people sometimes demand #trans people rigourously define what "gender" means and explain what drives us to embody a gender other than the one assigned to us at birth. If we can't do that, they say, how can they believe us?

                              But trans people shouldn't have to be philosophers and psychologists all wrapped up into one to have our experiences believed. 1/

                              richrarobi@mastodon.socialR This user is from outside of this forum
                              richrarobi@mastodon.socialR This user is from outside of this forum
                              richrarobi@mastodon.social
                              wrote last edited by
                              #38

                              @Tattie

                              Ask them if they can read. They should read 'Bitch' by Lucy Cooke, a modern zoologist, unlike the Victorian pseudo-scientists revered by the out of touch British Government and obsolete 'supreme' court.

                              Link Preview Image
                              Lucy Cooke - Wikipedia

                              favicon

                              (en.wikipedia.org)

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                              • tattie@eldritch.cafeT tattie@eldritch.cafe

                                Cis people sometimes demand #trans people rigourously define what "gender" means and explain what drives us to embody a gender other than the one assigned to us at birth. If we can't do that, they say, how can they believe us?

                                But trans people shouldn't have to be philosophers and psychologists all wrapped up into one to have our experiences believed. 1/

                                wynke@mendeddrum.orgW This user is from outside of this forum
                                wynke@mendeddrum.orgW This user is from outside of this forum
                                wynke@mendeddrum.org
                                wrote last edited by
                                #39

                                @Tattie One does not have to understand a thing to accept it and believe other people's experiences.

                                1 Reply Last reply
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                                • tattie@eldritch.cafeT tattie@eldritch.cafe

                                  Cis people sometimes demand #trans people rigourously define what "gender" means and explain what drives us to embody a gender other than the one assigned to us at birth. If we can't do that, they say, how can they believe us?

                                  But trans people shouldn't have to be philosophers and psychologists all wrapped up into one to have our experiences believed. 1/

                                  hypostase@bsd.networkH This user is from outside of this forum
                                  hypostase@bsd.networkH This user is from outside of this forum
                                  hypostase@bsd.network
                                  wrote last edited by
                                  #40

                                  @Tattie The problem is that the concept of gender is so entirely arbitrary, that they need rigid boundaries to keep it in place. So much so that they will ignore the science of sex, just so as not to hurt their illusions.

                                  It was the same with animal sexuality.

                                  1 Reply Last reply
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                                  • tattie@eldritch.cafeT tattie@eldritch.cafe

                                    That's it. That's what I've got. Just my experience.

                                    No grand theory that explains everything, no intellectual justification. I can't explain this any more than you can.

                                    But my experience is real. And I cannot stand by if you're going to "debate" the reality of it.

                                    I exist. I'm right here. Look at me.
                                    Fin/

                                    christianriegel@digitalcourage.socialC This user is from outside of this forum
                                    christianriegel@digitalcourage.socialC This user is from outside of this forum
                                    christianriegel@digitalcourage.social
                                    wrote last edited by
                                    #41

                                    @Tattie

                                    After all this, after all your journey, your questions, your answers... Why should I as some random cis person tell you who you are?? You're clearly the expert on yourself, how much audacity would I need to conjure??

                                    Bonus fun fact: even at the beginning of their journey, people are more the expert on themselves than we can ever be. Accept their judgement!

                                    1 Reply Last reply
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                                    • burnoutqueen@todon.nlB burnoutqueen@todon.nl

                                      @Tattie

                                      I'm happier as a girl and the evidence suggests it has to do with my brain but that's all I can conclusively say

                                      G This user is from outside of this forum
                                      G This user is from outside of this forum
                                      goedelchen@mastodontech.de
                                      wrote last edited by
                                      #42

                                      @burnoutqueen @Tattie “It has to do with the brain” is the only thing I could remember after listening to Robert Sapolsky talk about the topic

                                      - YouTube

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                                      burnoutqueen@todon.nlB 1 Reply Last reply
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                                      • G goedelchen@mastodontech.de

                                        @burnoutqueen @Tattie “It has to do with the brain” is the only thing I could remember after listening to Robert Sapolsky talk about the topic

                                        - YouTube

                                        Auf YouTube findest du die angesagtesten Videos und Tracks. Außerdem kannst du eigene Inhalte hochladen und mit Freunden oder gleich der ganzen Welt teilen.

                                        favicon

                                        (www.youtube.com)

                                        burnoutqueen@todon.nlB This user is from outside of this forum
                                        burnoutqueen@todon.nlB This user is from outside of this forum
                                        burnoutqueen@todon.nl
                                        wrote last edited by
                                        #43

                                        @goedelchen

                                        I love that talk.

                                        1 Reply Last reply
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                                        • tattie@eldritch.cafeT tattie@eldritch.cafe

                                          Cis people sometimes demand #trans people rigourously define what "gender" means and explain what drives us to embody a gender other than the one assigned to us at birth. If we can't do that, they say, how can they believe us?

                                          But trans people shouldn't have to be philosophers and psychologists all wrapped up into one to have our experiences believed. 1/

                                          edthechem@mas.toE This user is from outside of this forum
                                          edthechem@mas.toE This user is from outside of this forum
                                          edthechem@mas.to
                                          wrote last edited by
                                          #44

                                          @Tattie When you put it like that, one thing really stands out to me, even as a cis man.

                                          That letter on the birth certificate is made based on physical presentation at birth, with a presumed link to development years later and an assumption of generalized characteristics therefrom, barring lesser-seen phenomena.

                                          (Verbose in an attempt to avoid loaded terms)

                                          Although it fits for me, if someone feels mismatched, the question you describe being forced to face is a reversal of the onus of proof.

                                          edthechem@mas.toE 1 Reply Last reply
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