Cis people sometimes demand #trans people rigourously define what "gender" means and explain what drives us to embody a gender other than the one assigned to us at birth.
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That's it. That's what I've got. Just my experience.
No grand theory that explains everything, no intellectual justification. I can't explain this any more than you can.
But my experience is real. And I cannot stand by if you're going to "debate" the reality of it.
I exist. I'm right here. Look at me.
Fin/ -
Cis people sometimes demand #trans people rigourously define what "gender" means and explain what drives us to embody a gender other than the one assigned to us at birth. If we can't do that, they say, how can they believe us?
But trans people shouldn't have to be philosophers and psychologists all wrapped up into one to have our experiences believed. 1/
Ask them if they can read. They should read 'Bitch' by Lucy Cooke, a modern zoologist, unlike the Victorian pseudo-scientists revered by the out of touch British Government and obsolete 'supreme' court.
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Cis people sometimes demand #trans people rigourously define what "gender" means and explain what drives us to embody a gender other than the one assigned to us at birth. If we can't do that, they say, how can they believe us?
But trans people shouldn't have to be philosophers and psychologists all wrapped up into one to have our experiences believed. 1/
@Tattie One does not have to understand a thing to accept it and believe other people's experiences.
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Cis people sometimes demand #trans people rigourously define what "gender" means and explain what drives us to embody a gender other than the one assigned to us at birth. If we can't do that, they say, how can they believe us?
But trans people shouldn't have to be philosophers and psychologists all wrapped up into one to have our experiences believed. 1/
@Tattie The problem is that the concept of gender is so entirely arbitrary, that they need rigid boundaries to keep it in place. So much so that they will ignore the science of sex, just so as not to hurt their illusions.
It was the same with animal sexuality.
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That's it. That's what I've got. Just my experience.
No grand theory that explains everything, no intellectual justification. I can't explain this any more than you can.
But my experience is real. And I cannot stand by if you're going to "debate" the reality of it.
I exist. I'm right here. Look at me.
Fin/After all this, after all your journey, your questions, your answers... Why should I as some random cis person tell you who you are?? You're clearly the expert on yourself, how much audacity would I need to conjure??
Bonus fun fact: even at the beginning of their journey, people are more the expert on themselves than we can ever be. Accept their judgement!
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I'm happier as a girl and the evidence suggests it has to do with my brain but that's all I can conclusively say
@burnoutqueen @Tattie “It has to do with the brain” is the only thing I could remember after listening to Robert Sapolsky talk about the topic
- YouTube
Auf YouTube findest du die angesagtesten Videos und Tracks. Außerdem kannst du eigene Inhalte hochladen und mit Freunden oder gleich der ganzen Welt teilen.
(www.youtube.com)
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@burnoutqueen @Tattie “It has to do with the brain” is the only thing I could remember after listening to Robert Sapolsky talk about the topic
- YouTube
Auf YouTube findest du die angesagtesten Videos und Tracks. Außerdem kannst du eigene Inhalte hochladen und mit Freunden oder gleich der ganzen Welt teilen.
(www.youtube.com)
I love that talk.
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Cis people sometimes demand #trans people rigourously define what "gender" means and explain what drives us to embody a gender other than the one assigned to us at birth. If we can't do that, they say, how can they believe us?
But trans people shouldn't have to be philosophers and psychologists all wrapped up into one to have our experiences believed. 1/
@Tattie When you put it like that, one thing really stands out to me, even as a cis man.
That letter on the birth certificate is made based on physical presentation at birth, with a presumed link to development years later and an assumption of generalized characteristics therefrom, barring lesser-seen phenomena.
(Verbose in an attempt to avoid loaded terms)
Although it fits for me, if someone feels mismatched, the question you describe being forced to face is a reversal of the onus of proof.
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@Tattie When you put it like that, one thing really stands out to me, even as a cis man.
That letter on the birth certificate is made based on physical presentation at birth, with a presumed link to development years later and an assumption of generalized characteristics therefrom, barring lesser-seen phenomena.
(Verbose in an attempt to avoid loaded terms)
Although it fits for me, if someone feels mismatched, the question you describe being forced to face is a reversal of the onus of proof.
@Tattie After all, childhood development tracking is seeing if the way children grow up follows an expected pattern, including gender/sex-linked things.
It follows that people are sometimes expected not to follow those patterns, for a multitude of reasons (not to fall into a medicalization trap other sexual minorities suffered horrendously from).
Therefore, that letter doesn't tell the entire story for everyone and moreover, society recognizes it.
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That's it. That's what I've got. Just my experience.
No grand theory that explains everything, no intellectual justification. I can't explain this any more than you can.
But my experience is real. And I cannot stand by if you're going to "debate" the reality of it.
I exist. I'm right here. Look at me.
Fin/@Tattie I'm a cis guy. I've always been in favor of trans rights since I learned trans people were a thing, but I did spend a number of years not really getting why someone would be trans.
Then one day I just had the thought, "What if I woke up tomorrow with a female body?" And after the obvious jokes that immediately came to mind, I actually thought about being stuck in the wrong body, unable to get back, and I had to stop because I almost gave myself a panic attack.
I'm an on-again-off-again recreational author, so I frequently find myself in unusual thought experiments. Which is to say, I hadn't intended to have a moment of profound empathy for trans people, but as soon as I calmed down I thought, Oh, this must be how a lot of trans people feel all time.
All of that to say: I see you. It's real. I think most cis people, if they put just a few minutes into the activity, would be forced to admit that if they were suddenly body swapped, they'd be desperate to get back to their correct body. Most cis people just never seriously confront the thought.
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@Tattie I'm a cis guy. I've always been in favor of trans rights since I learned trans people were a thing, but I did spend a number of years not really getting why someone would be trans.
Then one day I just had the thought, "What if I woke up tomorrow with a female body?" And after the obvious jokes that immediately came to mind, I actually thought about being stuck in the wrong body, unable to get back, and I had to stop because I almost gave myself a panic attack.
I'm an on-again-off-again recreational author, so I frequently find myself in unusual thought experiments. Which is to say, I hadn't intended to have a moment of profound empathy for trans people, but as soon as I calmed down I thought, Oh, this must be how a lot of trans people feel all time.
All of that to say: I see you. It's real. I think most cis people, if they put just a few minutes into the activity, would be forced to admit that if they were suddenly body swapped, they'd be desperate to get back to their correct body. Most cis people just never seriously confront the thought.
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@Tattie I'm a cis guy. I've always been in favor of trans rights since I learned trans people were a thing, but I did spend a number of years not really getting why someone would be trans.
Then one day I just had the thought, "What if I woke up tomorrow with a female body?" And after the obvious jokes that immediately came to mind, I actually thought about being stuck in the wrong body, unable to get back, and I had to stop because I almost gave myself a panic attack.
I'm an on-again-off-again recreational author, so I frequently find myself in unusual thought experiments. Which is to say, I hadn't intended to have a moment of profound empathy for trans people, but as soon as I calmed down I thought, Oh, this must be how a lot of trans people feel all time.
All of that to say: I see you. It's real. I think most cis people, if they put just a few minutes into the activity, would be forced to admit that if they were suddenly body swapped, they'd be desperate to get back to their correct body. Most cis people just never seriously confront the thought.
@Azuaron do you know? You're the first cis person I've spoken to willing to seriously entertain this thought experiment.
Most cis men make jokes about boobs, and most cis women focus on the privilege aspect. But almost everyone seems to falter at the deep imaginative act of their body being wrong for them.
I'm really glad you commented, because it's heartening to know that this sort of empathy is in fact possible— and that it plays out exactly as I would imagine, panic and all.
Thank you.
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@Tattie I'm a cis guy. I've always been in favor of trans rights since I learned trans people were a thing, but I did spend a number of years not really getting why someone would be trans.
Then one day I just had the thought, "What if I woke up tomorrow with a female body?" And after the obvious jokes that immediately came to mind, I actually thought about being stuck in the wrong body, unable to get back, and I had to stop because I almost gave myself a panic attack.
I'm an on-again-off-again recreational author, so I frequently find myself in unusual thought experiments. Which is to say, I hadn't intended to have a moment of profound empathy for trans people, but as soon as I calmed down I thought, Oh, this must be how a lot of trans people feel all time.
All of that to say: I see you. It's real. I think most cis people, if they put just a few minutes into the activity, would be forced to admit that if they were suddenly body swapped, they'd be desperate to get back to their correct body. Most cis people just never seriously confront the thought.
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@Azuaron do you know? You're the first cis person I've spoken to willing to seriously entertain this thought experiment.
Most cis men make jokes about boobs, and most cis women focus on the privilege aspect. But almost everyone seems to falter at the deep imaginative act of their body being wrong for them.
I'm really glad you commented, because it's heartening to know that this sort of empathy is in fact possible— and that it plays out exactly as I would imagine, panic and all.
Thank you.
@Tattie @Azuaron He's not the only one. Another occasional author here, and another who has pondered waking up as/being polymorphed into a different body. Talking to friends (I also do TTRPG) I hear that the depth of dysmorphia people would experience would vary, but it is real body horror stuff.
Also useful for understanding and building empathy now I have a non-binary child.
Thank you for putting it so well.
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@Tattie I'm a cis guy. I've always been in favor of trans rights since I learned trans people were a thing, but I did spend a number of years not really getting why someone would be trans.
Then one day I just had the thought, "What if I woke up tomorrow with a female body?" And after the obvious jokes that immediately came to mind, I actually thought about being stuck in the wrong body, unable to get back, and I had to stop because I almost gave myself a panic attack.
I'm an on-again-off-again recreational author, so I frequently find myself in unusual thought experiments. Which is to say, I hadn't intended to have a moment of profound empathy for trans people, but as soon as I calmed down I thought, Oh, this must be how a lot of trans people feel all time.
All of that to say: I see you. It's real. I think most cis people, if they put just a few minutes into the activity, would be forced to admit that if they were suddenly body swapped, they'd be desperate to get back to their correct body. Most cis people just never seriously confront the thought.
@Azuaron @Tattie "same self, différent body is a trope in #sciencefiction . Have you read "Call me Joe"? by Poul Anderson (1957!).
In sci-fi that can go in different way. In Anderson's story, having an alien body suits the protagonist just fine. Either way, if you read a lot of it you are almost bound to come across though experiments like yours.
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I don't generally "feel like a woman". I feel like me.
But, like, do you understand that for decades before I transitioned I was fantasising about, pining for, the idea of having a female body, of being recognised as a woman, going thru life as one?
I tried to stoically accept that I was a man, I tried to embrace non-traditional masculinity, I tried everything to make this need go away. It didn't.
So I have to conclude, this is something real.
3/@Tattie when I was 18 I read the Dune books. The face dancers led me to think seriously about how it would feel to have a female body instead of a male one.
I thought it would be awesome to be able to change my body type. I was vaguely aware of trans people, but had no interest in being a woman. I just wanted to be able to have a female body sometimes.
Thirty years later, I realised I'm non-binary. It would have saved me a lot of grief if I'd realised as a teenager, but the concept was unheard of (at least in my world) in the late 1980s.
All of which is to agree with you, and add that representation is important.
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