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  3. Cis people sometimes demand #trans people rigourously define what "gender" means and explain what drives us to embody a gender other than the one assigned to us at birth.

Cis people sometimes demand #trans people rigourously define what "gender" means and explain what drives us to embody a gender other than the one assigned to us at birth.

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  • tattie@eldritch.cafeT tattie@eldritch.cafe

    That's it. That's what I've got. Just my experience.

    No grand theory that explains everything, no intellectual justification. I can't explain this any more than you can.

    But my experience is real. And I cannot stand by if you're going to "debate" the reality of it.

    I exist. I'm right here. Look at me.
    Fin/

    adele@social.treehouse.systemsA This user is from outside of this forum
    adele@social.treehouse.systemsA This user is from outside of this forum
    adele@social.treehouse.systems
    wrote last edited by
    #18

    @Tattie elegantly said and true.

    1 Reply Last reply
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    • tattie@eldritch.cafeT tattie@eldritch.cafe

      Cis people sometimes demand #trans people rigourously define what "gender" means and explain what drives us to embody a gender other than the one assigned to us at birth. If we can't do that, they say, how can they believe us?

      But trans people shouldn't have to be philosophers and psychologists all wrapped up into one to have our experiences believed. 1/

      jesstheunstill@infosec.exchangeJ This user is from outside of this forum
      jesstheunstill@infosec.exchangeJ This user is from outside of this forum
      jesstheunstill@infosec.exchange
      wrote last edited by
      #19

      @Tattie I think even more fundamentally - there's been entire books and a million blogs of personal narratives, lots of them. Medical research studies, medical associations, entire international interdisciplinary organizations of people who are the world experts in gender diversity. They all say trans people are real, valid, and who they say they are. If someone isn't willing to accept those piles of evidence, then challenging an individual trans person is just hunting for some gotcha.

      1 Reply Last reply
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      • jrdepriest@infosec.exchangeJ jrdepriest@infosec.exchange

        @Tattie in fact, I'm sharing a Masto Reader link to this thread on my woke family Signal chat so they can understand what dysphoria is like since it is hard to explain and you have done so in an almost poetic way.

        jrdepriest@infosec.exchangeJ This user is from outside of this forum
        jrdepriest@infosec.exchangeJ This user is from outside of this forum
        jrdepriest@infosec.exchange
        wrote last edited by
        #20

        @Tattie cousin told me, after reading it, that her 25 year old AMAB child thinks he might be transgender. They are currently dating a trans woman, too. Thank you for helping to open up that dialogue.

        tattie@eldritch.cafeT 1 Reply Last reply
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        • tattie@eldritch.cafeT tattie@eldritch.cafe

          Cis people sometimes demand #trans people rigourously define what "gender" means and explain what drives us to embody a gender other than the one assigned to us at birth. If we can't do that, they say, how can they believe us?

          But trans people shouldn't have to be philosophers and psychologists all wrapped up into one to have our experiences believed. 1/

          burnoutqueen@todon.nlB This user is from outside of this forum
          burnoutqueen@todon.nlB This user is from outside of this forum
          burnoutqueen@todon.nl
          wrote last edited by
          #21

          @Tattie

          I'm happier as a girl and the evidence suggests it has to do with my brain but that's all I can conclusively say

          G 1 Reply Last reply
          0
          • jrdepriest@infosec.exchangeJ jrdepriest@infosec.exchange

            @Tattie cousin told me, after reading it, that her 25 year old AMAB child thinks he might be transgender. They are currently dating a trans woman, too. Thank you for helping to open up that dialogue.

            tattie@eldritch.cafeT This user is from outside of this forum
            tattie@eldritch.cafeT This user is from outside of this forum
            tattie@eldritch.cafe
            wrote last edited by
            #22

            @jrdepriest oh my gosh, I'm so happy that I could be part of that!

            1 Reply Last reply
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            • tattie@eldritch.cafeT tattie@eldritch.cafe

              Cis people sometimes demand #trans people rigourously define what "gender" means and explain what drives us to embody a gender other than the one assigned to us at birth. If we can't do that, they say, how can they believe us?

              But trans people shouldn't have to be philosophers and psychologists all wrapped up into one to have our experiences believed. 1/

              forestine@sunny.gardenF This user is from outside of this forum
              forestine@sunny.gardenF This user is from outside of this forum
              forestine@sunny.garden
              wrote last edited by
              #23

              @Tattie also a cis person who has never interrogated their gender will get real defensive if you try and flip the question on them. they'll say "i just am" or something

              jaxvent@lgbtqia.spaceJ 1 Reply Last reply
              0
              • forestine@sunny.gardenF forestine@sunny.garden

                @Tattie also a cis person who has never interrogated their gender will get real defensive if you try and flip the question on them. they'll say "i just am" or something

                jaxvent@lgbtqia.spaceJ This user is from outside of this forum
                jaxvent@lgbtqia.spaceJ This user is from outside of this forum
                jaxvent@lgbtqia.space
                wrote last edited by
                #24

                @forestine @Tattie

                Yep, funny that πŸ˜…

                I'm CIS and have never been able to explain why I am CIS, why I am happy with my gender matching my biological sex. I just am. And I don't believe any CIS person really could. So why on earth should any trans person be expected to?

                forestine@sunny.gardenF 1 Reply Last reply
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                • jaxvent@lgbtqia.spaceJ jaxvent@lgbtqia.space

                  @forestine @Tattie

                  Yep, funny that πŸ˜…

                  I'm CIS and have never been able to explain why I am CIS, why I am happy with my gender matching my biological sex. I just am. And I don't believe any CIS person really could. So why on earth should any trans person be expected to?

                  forestine@sunny.gardenF This user is from outside of this forum
                  forestine@sunny.gardenF This user is from outside of this forum
                  forestine@sunny.garden
                  wrote last edited by
                  #25

                  @JaxVent @Tattie yes, great points.

                  btw in case you weren't aware, cis is not an acronym for anything, but is latin, and doesn't need to be capitalised

                  jaxvent@lgbtqia.spaceJ 1 Reply Last reply
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                  • tattie@eldritch.cafeT tattie@eldritch.cafe

                    That's it. That's what I've got. Just my experience.

                    No grand theory that explains everything, no intellectual justification. I can't explain this any more than you can.

                    But my experience is real. And I cannot stand by if you're going to "debate" the reality of it.

                    I exist. I'm right here. Look at me.
                    Fin/

                    williampietri@sfba.socialW This user is from outside of this forum
                    williampietri@sfba.socialW This user is from outside of this forum
                    williampietri@sfba.social
                    wrote last edited by
                    #26

                    @Tattie Thanks! I appreciate you sharing this. It's lovely. Congrats on finding ways to feel like you.

                    I also think it's wild that cis people are expecting you to explain gender to them. My experience asking cis people to explain this whole gender thing is that either they flop around like a fish on a riverbank or they fall back on PLUTO IS A PLANET repetition of too-simple things that they learned when they were 7 and haven't thought about since.

                    1 Reply Last reply
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                    • forestine@sunny.gardenF forestine@sunny.garden

                      @JaxVent @Tattie yes, great points.

                      btw in case you weren't aware, cis is not an acronym for anything, but is latin, and doesn't need to be capitalised

                      jaxvent@lgbtqia.spaceJ This user is from outside of this forum
                      jaxvent@lgbtqia.spaceJ This user is from outside of this forum
                      jaxvent@lgbtqia.space
                      wrote last edited by
                      #27

                      @forestine @Tattie

                      I knew that, so don't know why I capitalise it πŸ€” Thanks for the reminder πŸ™‚

                      anhedonie@chaosfem.twA 1 Reply Last reply
                      0
                      • jaxvent@lgbtqia.spaceJ jaxvent@lgbtqia.space

                        @forestine @Tattie

                        I knew that, so don't know why I capitalise it πŸ€” Thanks for the reminder πŸ™‚

                        anhedonie@chaosfem.twA This user is from outside of this forum
                        anhedonie@chaosfem.twA This user is from outside of this forum
                        anhedonie@chaosfem.tw
                        wrote last edited by
                        #28

                        @JaxVent @forestine @Tattie autocorrect uppercases it automatically for me every time and it's so annoying

                        1 Reply Last reply
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                        • tattie@eldritch.cafeT tattie@eldritch.cafe

                          That's it. That's what I've got. Just my experience.

                          No grand theory that explains everything, no intellectual justification. I can't explain this any more than you can.

                          But my experience is real. And I cannot stand by if you're going to "debate" the reality of it.

                          I exist. I'm right here. Look at me.
                          Fin/

                          xorlou@lgbtqia.spaceX This user is from outside of this forum
                          xorlou@lgbtqia.spaceX This user is from outside of this forum
                          xorlou@lgbtqia.space
                          wrote last edited by
                          #29

                          @Tattie thanks for writing this, it very much mirrors my own experience. I tried so hard to avoid transitioning. I lived as a femme out gay man for over a decade. I'm still just at the early stages and still terrified, but I've reached the end of the road of alternative options. We shouldn't have to rigorously justify our own existence, it's just unreasonable to expect this. There probably isn't a rational explanation for being trans, it's just life and it unfolds the way it does. Sending all my love πŸ’•

                          tattie@eldritch.cafeT 1 Reply Last reply
                          0
                          • xorlou@lgbtqia.spaceX xorlou@lgbtqia.space

                            @Tattie thanks for writing this, it very much mirrors my own experience. I tried so hard to avoid transitioning. I lived as a femme out gay man for over a decade. I'm still just at the early stages and still terrified, but I've reached the end of the road of alternative options. We shouldn't have to rigorously justify our own existence, it's just unreasonable to expect this. There probably isn't a rational explanation for being trans, it's just life and it unfolds the way it does. Sending all my love πŸ’•

                            tattie@eldritch.cafeT This user is from outside of this forum
                            tattie@eldritch.cafeT This user is from outside of this forum
                            tattie@eldritch.cafe
                            wrote last edited by
                            #30

                            @xorlou well done on reaching this point, it's not easy! Hope transition is bringing you joy!

                            xorlou@lgbtqia.spaceX 1 Reply Last reply
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                            • tattie@eldritch.cafeT tattie@eldritch.cafe

                              That's it. That's what I've got. Just my experience.

                              No grand theory that explains everything, no intellectual justification. I can't explain this any more than you can.

                              But my experience is real. And I cannot stand by if you're going to "debate" the reality of it.

                              I exist. I'm right here. Look at me.
                              Fin/

                              brooke@bikeshed.vibber.netB This user is from outside of this forum
                              brooke@bikeshed.vibber.netB This user is from outside of this forum
                              brooke@bikeshed.vibber.net
                              wrote last edited by
                              #31

                              @Tattie ❀ ❀ ❀

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                              • tattie@eldritch.cafeT tattie@eldritch.cafe

                                Cis people sometimes demand #trans people rigourously define what "gender" means and explain what drives us to embody a gender other than the one assigned to us at birth. If we can't do that, they say, how can they believe us?

                                But trans people shouldn't have to be philosophers and psychologists all wrapped up into one to have our experiences believed. 1/

                                eruonna@lgbtqia.spaceE This user is from outside of this forum
                                eruonna@lgbtqia.spaceE This user is from outside of this forum
                                eruonna@lgbtqia.space
                                wrote last edited by
                                #32

                                @Tattie
                                And we shouldn't have to be endocrinologists to get proper health care or lawyers to get our documents changed...

                                tattie@eldritch.cafeT 1 Reply Last reply
                                0
                                • eruonna@lgbtqia.spaceE eruonna@lgbtqia.space

                                  @Tattie
                                  And we shouldn't have to be endocrinologists to get proper health care or lawyers to get our documents changed...

                                  tattie@eldritch.cafeT This user is from outside of this forum
                                  tattie@eldritch.cafeT This user is from outside of this forum
                                  tattie@eldritch.cafe
                                  wrote last edited by
                                  #33

                                  @eruonna or ethicists, or sports scientists, or fashionistas, or anthropologists, or conflict mediators, or counsellors (oh wait)

                                  1 Reply Last reply
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                                  • tattie@eldritch.cafeT tattie@eldritch.cafe

                                    @xorlou well done on reaching this point, it's not easy! Hope transition is bringing you joy!

                                    xorlou@lgbtqia.spaceX This user is from outside of this forum
                                    xorlou@lgbtqia.spaceX This user is from outside of this forum
                                    xorlou@lgbtqia.space
                                    wrote last edited by
                                    #34

                                    @Tattie thanks, yes I feel a lot of relief to finally be on HRT and I have been feeling better about myself.

                                    1 Reply Last reply
                                    0
                                    • tattie@eldritch.cafeT tattie@eldritch.cafe

                                      Cis people sometimes demand #trans people rigourously define what "gender" means and explain what drives us to embody a gender other than the one assigned to us at birth. If we can't do that, they say, how can they believe us?

                                      But trans people shouldn't have to be philosophers and psychologists all wrapped up into one to have our experiences believed. 1/

                                      countablenewt@mastodon.socialC This user is from outside of this forum
                                      countablenewt@mastodon.socialC This user is from outside of this forum
                                      countablenewt@mastodon.social
                                      wrote last edited by
                                      #35

                                      @Tattie Cis people be like "I don't make the rules" and then literally go and make the rules

                                      1 Reply Last reply
                                      0
                                      • tattie@eldritch.cafeT tattie@eldritch.cafe

                                        That's it. That's what I've got. Just my experience.

                                        No grand theory that explains everything, no intellectual justification. I can't explain this any more than you can.

                                        But my experience is real. And I cannot stand by if you're going to "debate" the reality of it.

                                        I exist. I'm right here. Look at me.
                                        Fin/

                                        cassandra_complex@beige.partyC This user is from outside of this forum
                                        cassandra_complex@beige.partyC This user is from outside of this forum
                                        cassandra_complex@beige.party
                                        wrote last edited by
                                        #36

                                        @Tattie
                                        A few people already said similar, but plenty of social sciences have already done all that work of defining gender so we shouldn't have to.

                                        It's not that transphobes can't find the information, it's that they don't care to listen to it anyway because it doesn't validate their own hateful beliefs.

                                        It'd also help if they stopped burning our studies, books, and science centers down then pretending it's a new idea to be a transgender person.

                                        1 Reply Last reply
                                        0
                                        • tattie@eldritch.cafeT tattie@eldritch.cafe

                                          That's it. That's what I've got. Just my experience.

                                          No grand theory that explains everything, no intellectual justification. I can't explain this any more than you can.

                                          But my experience is real. And I cannot stand by if you're going to "debate" the reality of it.

                                          I exist. I'm right here. Look at me.
                                          Fin/

                                          sternentau@don.linxx.netS This user is from outside of this forum
                                          sternentau@don.linxx.netS This user is from outside of this forum
                                          sternentau@don.linxx.net
                                          wrote last edited by
                                          #37

                                          @Tattie πŸ’œ

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