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  3. Cis people sometimes demand #trans people rigourously define what "gender" means and explain what drives us to embody a gender other than the one assigned to us at birth.

Cis people sometimes demand #trans people rigourously define what "gender" means and explain what drives us to embody a gender other than the one assigned to us at birth.

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  • ruthoday2@chaosfem.twR ruthoday2@chaosfem.tw

    @Tattie

    Thank you for expressing this, it describes (more clearly than I could) a lot of my own experiences..

    #BoostFaveBookmarkTrifecta

    tattie@eldritch.cafeT This user is from outside of this forum
    tattie@eldritch.cafeT This user is from outside of this forum
    tattie@eldritch.cafe
    wrote last edited by
    #17

    @RuthODay2 I am honoured by the trifecta!

    1 Reply Last reply
    0
    • tattie@eldritch.cafeT tattie@eldritch.cafe

      That's it. That's what I've got. Just my experience.

      No grand theory that explains everything, no intellectual justification. I can't explain this any more than you can.

      But my experience is real. And I cannot stand by if you're going to "debate" the reality of it.

      I exist. I'm right here. Look at me.
      Fin/

      adele@social.treehouse.systemsA This user is from outside of this forum
      adele@social.treehouse.systemsA This user is from outside of this forum
      adele@social.treehouse.systems
      wrote last edited by
      #18

      @Tattie elegantly said and true.

      1 Reply Last reply
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      • tattie@eldritch.cafeT tattie@eldritch.cafe

        Cis people sometimes demand #trans people rigourously define what "gender" means and explain what drives us to embody a gender other than the one assigned to us at birth. If we can't do that, they say, how can they believe us?

        But trans people shouldn't have to be philosophers and psychologists all wrapped up into one to have our experiences believed. 1/

        jesstheunstill@infosec.exchangeJ This user is from outside of this forum
        jesstheunstill@infosec.exchangeJ This user is from outside of this forum
        jesstheunstill@infosec.exchange
        wrote last edited by
        #19

        @Tattie I think even more fundamentally - there's been entire books and a million blogs of personal narratives, lots of them. Medical research studies, medical associations, entire international interdisciplinary organizations of people who are the world experts in gender diversity. They all say trans people are real, valid, and who they say they are. If someone isn't willing to accept those piles of evidence, then challenging an individual trans person is just hunting for some gotcha.

        1 Reply Last reply
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        • jrdepriest@infosec.exchangeJ jrdepriest@infosec.exchange

          @Tattie in fact, I'm sharing a Masto Reader link to this thread on my woke family Signal chat so they can understand what dysphoria is like since it is hard to explain and you have done so in an almost poetic way.

          jrdepriest@infosec.exchangeJ This user is from outside of this forum
          jrdepriest@infosec.exchangeJ This user is from outside of this forum
          jrdepriest@infosec.exchange
          wrote last edited by
          #20

          @Tattie cousin told me, after reading it, that her 25 year old AMAB child thinks he might be transgender. They are currently dating a trans woman, too. Thank you for helping to open up that dialogue.

          tattie@eldritch.cafeT 1 Reply Last reply
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          • tattie@eldritch.cafeT tattie@eldritch.cafe

            Cis people sometimes demand #trans people rigourously define what "gender" means and explain what drives us to embody a gender other than the one assigned to us at birth. If we can't do that, they say, how can they believe us?

            But trans people shouldn't have to be philosophers and psychologists all wrapped up into one to have our experiences believed. 1/

            burnoutqueen@todon.nlB This user is from outside of this forum
            burnoutqueen@todon.nlB This user is from outside of this forum
            burnoutqueen@todon.nl
            wrote last edited by
            #21

            @Tattie

            I'm happier as a girl and the evidence suggests it has to do with my brain but that's all I can conclusively say

            G 1 Reply Last reply
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            • jrdepriest@infosec.exchangeJ jrdepriest@infosec.exchange

              @Tattie cousin told me, after reading it, that her 25 year old AMAB child thinks he might be transgender. They are currently dating a trans woman, too. Thank you for helping to open up that dialogue.

              tattie@eldritch.cafeT This user is from outside of this forum
              tattie@eldritch.cafeT This user is from outside of this forum
              tattie@eldritch.cafe
              wrote last edited by
              #22

              @jrdepriest oh my gosh, I'm so happy that I could be part of that!

              1 Reply Last reply
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              • tattie@eldritch.cafeT tattie@eldritch.cafe

                Cis people sometimes demand #trans people rigourously define what "gender" means and explain what drives us to embody a gender other than the one assigned to us at birth. If we can't do that, they say, how can they believe us?

                But trans people shouldn't have to be philosophers and psychologists all wrapped up into one to have our experiences believed. 1/

                forestine@sunny.gardenF This user is from outside of this forum
                forestine@sunny.gardenF This user is from outside of this forum
                forestine@sunny.garden
                wrote last edited by
                #23

                @Tattie also a cis person who has never interrogated their gender will get real defensive if you try and flip the question on them. they'll say "i just am" or something

                jaxvent@lgbtqia.spaceJ 1 Reply Last reply
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                • forestine@sunny.gardenF forestine@sunny.garden

                  @Tattie also a cis person who has never interrogated their gender will get real defensive if you try and flip the question on them. they'll say "i just am" or something

                  jaxvent@lgbtqia.spaceJ This user is from outside of this forum
                  jaxvent@lgbtqia.spaceJ This user is from outside of this forum
                  jaxvent@lgbtqia.space
                  wrote last edited by
                  #24

                  @forestine @Tattie

                  Yep, funny that πŸ˜…

                  I'm CIS and have never been able to explain why I am CIS, why I am happy with my gender matching my biological sex. I just am. And I don't believe any CIS person really could. So why on earth should any trans person be expected to?

                  forestine@sunny.gardenF 1 Reply Last reply
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                  • jaxvent@lgbtqia.spaceJ jaxvent@lgbtqia.space

                    @forestine @Tattie

                    Yep, funny that πŸ˜…

                    I'm CIS and have never been able to explain why I am CIS, why I am happy with my gender matching my biological sex. I just am. And I don't believe any CIS person really could. So why on earth should any trans person be expected to?

                    forestine@sunny.gardenF This user is from outside of this forum
                    forestine@sunny.gardenF This user is from outside of this forum
                    forestine@sunny.garden
                    wrote last edited by
                    #25

                    @JaxVent @Tattie yes, great points.

                    btw in case you weren't aware, cis is not an acronym for anything, but is latin, and doesn't need to be capitalised

                    jaxvent@lgbtqia.spaceJ 1 Reply Last reply
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                    • tattie@eldritch.cafeT tattie@eldritch.cafe

                      That's it. That's what I've got. Just my experience.

                      No grand theory that explains everything, no intellectual justification. I can't explain this any more than you can.

                      But my experience is real. And I cannot stand by if you're going to "debate" the reality of it.

                      I exist. I'm right here. Look at me.
                      Fin/

                      williampietri@sfba.socialW This user is from outside of this forum
                      williampietri@sfba.socialW This user is from outside of this forum
                      williampietri@sfba.social
                      wrote last edited by
                      #26

                      @Tattie Thanks! I appreciate you sharing this. It's lovely. Congrats on finding ways to feel like you.

                      I also think it's wild that cis people are expecting you to explain gender to them. My experience asking cis people to explain this whole gender thing is that either they flop around like a fish on a riverbank or they fall back on PLUTO IS A PLANET repetition of too-simple things that they learned when they were 7 and haven't thought about since.

                      1 Reply Last reply
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                      • forestine@sunny.gardenF forestine@sunny.garden

                        @JaxVent @Tattie yes, great points.

                        btw in case you weren't aware, cis is not an acronym for anything, but is latin, and doesn't need to be capitalised

                        jaxvent@lgbtqia.spaceJ This user is from outside of this forum
                        jaxvent@lgbtqia.spaceJ This user is from outside of this forum
                        jaxvent@lgbtqia.space
                        wrote last edited by
                        #27

                        @forestine @Tattie

                        I knew that, so don't know why I capitalise it πŸ€” Thanks for the reminder πŸ™‚

                        anhedonie@chaosfem.twA 1 Reply Last reply
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                        • jaxvent@lgbtqia.spaceJ jaxvent@lgbtqia.space

                          @forestine @Tattie

                          I knew that, so don't know why I capitalise it πŸ€” Thanks for the reminder πŸ™‚

                          anhedonie@chaosfem.twA This user is from outside of this forum
                          anhedonie@chaosfem.twA This user is from outside of this forum
                          anhedonie@chaosfem.tw
                          wrote last edited by
                          #28

                          @JaxVent @forestine @Tattie autocorrect uppercases it automatically for me every time and it's so annoying

                          1 Reply Last reply
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                          • tattie@eldritch.cafeT tattie@eldritch.cafe

                            That's it. That's what I've got. Just my experience.

                            No grand theory that explains everything, no intellectual justification. I can't explain this any more than you can.

                            But my experience is real. And I cannot stand by if you're going to "debate" the reality of it.

                            I exist. I'm right here. Look at me.
                            Fin/

                            xorlou@lgbtqia.spaceX This user is from outside of this forum
                            xorlou@lgbtqia.spaceX This user is from outside of this forum
                            xorlou@lgbtqia.space
                            wrote last edited by
                            #29

                            @Tattie thanks for writing this, it very much mirrors my own experience. I tried so hard to avoid transitioning. I lived as a femme out gay man for over a decade. I'm still just at the early stages and still terrified, but I've reached the end of the road of alternative options. We shouldn't have to rigorously justify our own existence, it's just unreasonable to expect this. There probably isn't a rational explanation for being trans, it's just life and it unfolds the way it does. Sending all my love πŸ’•

                            tattie@eldritch.cafeT 1 Reply Last reply
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                            • xorlou@lgbtqia.spaceX xorlou@lgbtqia.space

                              @Tattie thanks for writing this, it very much mirrors my own experience. I tried so hard to avoid transitioning. I lived as a femme out gay man for over a decade. I'm still just at the early stages and still terrified, but I've reached the end of the road of alternative options. We shouldn't have to rigorously justify our own existence, it's just unreasonable to expect this. There probably isn't a rational explanation for being trans, it's just life and it unfolds the way it does. Sending all my love πŸ’•

                              tattie@eldritch.cafeT This user is from outside of this forum
                              tattie@eldritch.cafeT This user is from outside of this forum
                              tattie@eldritch.cafe
                              wrote last edited by
                              #30

                              @xorlou well done on reaching this point, it's not easy! Hope transition is bringing you joy!

                              xorlou@lgbtqia.spaceX 1 Reply Last reply
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                              • tattie@eldritch.cafeT tattie@eldritch.cafe

                                That's it. That's what I've got. Just my experience.

                                No grand theory that explains everything, no intellectual justification. I can't explain this any more than you can.

                                But my experience is real. And I cannot stand by if you're going to "debate" the reality of it.

                                I exist. I'm right here. Look at me.
                                Fin/

                                brooke@bikeshed.vibber.netB This user is from outside of this forum
                                brooke@bikeshed.vibber.netB This user is from outside of this forum
                                brooke@bikeshed.vibber.net
                                wrote last edited by
                                #31

                                @Tattie ❀ ❀ ❀

                                1 Reply Last reply
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                                • tattie@eldritch.cafeT tattie@eldritch.cafe

                                  Cis people sometimes demand #trans people rigourously define what "gender" means and explain what drives us to embody a gender other than the one assigned to us at birth. If we can't do that, they say, how can they believe us?

                                  But trans people shouldn't have to be philosophers and psychologists all wrapped up into one to have our experiences believed. 1/

                                  eruonna@lgbtqia.spaceE This user is from outside of this forum
                                  eruonna@lgbtqia.spaceE This user is from outside of this forum
                                  eruonna@lgbtqia.space
                                  wrote last edited by
                                  #32

                                  @Tattie
                                  And we shouldn't have to be endocrinologists to get proper health care or lawyers to get our documents changed...

                                  tattie@eldritch.cafeT 1 Reply Last reply
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                                  • eruonna@lgbtqia.spaceE eruonna@lgbtqia.space

                                    @Tattie
                                    And we shouldn't have to be endocrinologists to get proper health care or lawyers to get our documents changed...

                                    tattie@eldritch.cafeT This user is from outside of this forum
                                    tattie@eldritch.cafeT This user is from outside of this forum
                                    tattie@eldritch.cafe
                                    wrote last edited by
                                    #33

                                    @eruonna or ethicists, or sports scientists, or fashionistas, or anthropologists, or conflict mediators, or counsellors (oh wait)

                                    1 Reply Last reply
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                                    • tattie@eldritch.cafeT tattie@eldritch.cafe

                                      @xorlou well done on reaching this point, it's not easy! Hope transition is bringing you joy!

                                      xorlou@lgbtqia.spaceX This user is from outside of this forum
                                      xorlou@lgbtqia.spaceX This user is from outside of this forum
                                      xorlou@lgbtqia.space
                                      wrote last edited by
                                      #34

                                      @Tattie thanks, yes I feel a lot of relief to finally be on HRT and I have been feeling better about myself.

                                      1 Reply Last reply
                                      0
                                      • tattie@eldritch.cafeT tattie@eldritch.cafe

                                        Cis people sometimes demand #trans people rigourously define what "gender" means and explain what drives us to embody a gender other than the one assigned to us at birth. If we can't do that, they say, how can they believe us?

                                        But trans people shouldn't have to be philosophers and psychologists all wrapped up into one to have our experiences believed. 1/

                                        countablenewt@mastodon.socialC This user is from outside of this forum
                                        countablenewt@mastodon.socialC This user is from outside of this forum
                                        countablenewt@mastodon.social
                                        wrote last edited by
                                        #35

                                        @Tattie Cis people be like "I don't make the rules" and then literally go and make the rules

                                        1 Reply Last reply
                                        0
                                        • tattie@eldritch.cafeT tattie@eldritch.cafe

                                          That's it. That's what I've got. Just my experience.

                                          No grand theory that explains everything, no intellectual justification. I can't explain this any more than you can.

                                          But my experience is real. And I cannot stand by if you're going to "debate" the reality of it.

                                          I exist. I'm right here. Look at me.
                                          Fin/

                                          cassandra_complex@beige.partyC This user is from outside of this forum
                                          cassandra_complex@beige.partyC This user is from outside of this forum
                                          cassandra_complex@beige.party
                                          wrote last edited by
                                          #36

                                          @Tattie
                                          A few people already said similar, but plenty of social sciences have already done all that work of defining gender so we shouldn't have to.

                                          It's not that transphobes can't find the information, it's that they don't care to listen to it anyway because it doesn't validate their own hateful beliefs.

                                          It'd also help if they stopped burning our studies, books, and science centers down then pretending it's a new idea to be a transgender person.

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