"Zelensky says allies asked him to scale back attacks on Russian energy"
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@mike805 You mention Russia as if anyone here had even the faintest impression that they are part of this discussion.
This is about bombing the shit out of Russia's oil infrastructure, not asking what *they* think about renewables.
@txtx @mike805 @roblosricos @Npars01 @benroyce making their oil less valuable has an end effect akin to bombing bits of the infrastructure. Which among other things leaves the bombs available to direct to other deserving targets.
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@benroyce @roblosricos @Npars01
I think it would be fair to say that we would agree that the Republican Party, or the UK Conservative Party, and the Murdoch press are working counter to the interests of the working people.
Capitalism exists everywhere. Social projects are the only way that socialist governments can operate *within* a capitalist economy, like the Uruguayan example. Xi’s domestic policies are socialist in much the same way.
Do I think Xi should be President for life? No.
Do I think he deserves credit for lifting millions of people out of poverty and for increasing commitment to renewable energy? Yes.I think I’d even praise DJT if he did these things. But we both know it’s a safe bet that he never would.
Do I trust the Chinese system to keep the working class safe under any leader? No (See the Cultural Revolution).
Do I trust capitalist parliamentarianism? Also no.I am, I hope, not entirely a fool.
I know we have differences of opinion. We also share many of the same hopes.
I think it’s important to celebrate gains that are made towards those goals, even in systems we cannot wholeheartedly support.
Do I trust Xi entirely? No.
Do I think he has done more good for the people of the world than DJT, Netanyahu, MBS, or Putin? Yes.@Tattered @benroyce @roblosricos @Npars01
"Working people".
Let's consider those who do not yet work, those who did work, but retired, those who would but cannot work, those who would and could, but are not provided an opportunity, as well. -
@benroyce @roblosricos @Npars01 There are as many problems with democracy, as far as I can see.
No British Prime Minister has supported broad socialist policies since Wilson.
Democracies have been responsible for far more wars of aggression in my lifetime than autocracies.
European democracies are tending toward fascism, on a sliding scale from Orban to Macron deliberately obstructing the public choice of a socialist prime minister.
If we compare Xi with Obama, one of these leaders was engaged in overseas wars of aggression, in which he oversaw the use of drone warfare, with resultant civilian casualties. One of these leaders has also raised millions of his citizens out of abject poverty.
Democracy as an ideal is better than authoritarianism as an ideal. However, a number of fascist dictators have been installed by the democratic process, including Hitler. I live in a democracy that has had single-party rule for all but two short periods in its postwar history.
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@Tattered @benroyce @roblosricos @Npars01
The worst possible system, except for all the others. -
@JigmeDatse @Npars01 @Tattered @roblosricos
china's rise is just abandonment of all of it's communist principles, embracing capitalism, but keeping the authoritarianism. that's a fucking nightmare, fuck all the shilling tankies and their lies about that
russia meanwhile is the straight simple tragedy of how rosy ideals are betrayed by sociopaths (ie, stalin)
and democracy fucking sucks
it's just that, there's no better option. we need to fix it
@benroyce
China has a very long history. -
@txtx @mike805 @roblosricos @Npars01 @benroyce making their oil less valuable has an end effect akin to bombing bits of the infrastructure. Which among other things leaves the bombs available to direct to other deserving targets.
@Photo55 A blown up barrel of oil has a value of zero dollars, so I agree with you there!
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@Photo55 A blown up barrel of oil has a value of zero dollars, so I agree with you there!
@txtx
A barrel nobody wants is worth even less.
Demand destruction is tidier than supply destruction. -
Uruguay did what most nations still call impossible: it built a power grid that runs almost entirely on renewables—at half the cost of fossil fuels. The physicist who led that transformation says the same playbook could work anywhere—if governments have the courage to change the rules.
@ErikJonker een tip voor #Jetten
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@benroyce
China has a very long history.of course, as a culture
but we speak of "china" in this context in terms of it as a political entity, which only dates to 1949
and the shift that led to its embrace of capitalism and its economic rise is even more recent, 1978 and deng xiaoping
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@benroyce But they never reprimand Russia for blowing up Ukraine's energy infrastructure. That's, apparently, just normal.
and russia is aiming at apartment buildings
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@benroyce damn right, burn em to the ground! Could not believe trump regime ordered construction of wind farms shut down and even paid one developer $1B of our tax money to stop construction!
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@benroyce damn right, burn em to the ground! Could not believe trump regime ordered construction of wind farms shut down and even paid one developer $1B of our tax money to stop construction!
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@txtx
A barrel nobody wants is worth even less.
Demand destruction is tidier than supply destruction.@Photo55 Why not both?
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@Photo55 Why not both?
@txtx as a transitional state, it has some merit.
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of course, as a culture
but we speak of "china" in this context in terms of it as a political entity, which only dates to 1949
and the shift that led to its embrace of capitalism and its economic rise is even more recent, 1978 and deng xiaoping
@benroyce I suspect the Middle Kingdom hasn't gone away altogether, and a Middle Kingdom and outer barbarians implies an Inner Kingdom.
We still have bits of Rome under the Norman underlay, and the various seepages.
And it doesn't take me long to get to something from a long time before Rome came here, although how many cultural elements from then hang on. Footpaths and plantings do.
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@benroyce I suspect the Middle Kingdom hasn't gone away altogether, and a Middle Kingdom and outer barbarians implies an Inner Kingdom.
We still have bits of Rome under the Norman underlay, and the various seepages.
And it doesn't take me long to get to something from a long time before Rome came here, although how many cultural elements from then hang on. Footpaths and plantings do.
sure but this is whimsical poetical musings of vague echoes, not contemporary hard political realities
what you refer to is ancient echoes. it's an aspect of cultural roots. what that has to do with the political sphere is extremely obscure to the point of irrelevancy
china being totalitarian capitalist doesn't have anything to do with the song dynasty's struggles with the jin dynasty
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@mike805 @roblosricos @Npars01 @benroyce
Most petro-state's primary benefit from having fossil fuels is the ability to export them. If the non petro-states transition to renewables (which provides both environmental and national security benefits to them) it cuts off the export markets the petro-states rely on and that will force the petro-states to adopt green technology in turn.
@RantingCanuck @roblosricos @Npars01 @benroyce The problem with being a petroleum exporter is that money goes to the rulers of the nation, which therefore do not have to care about their populations.
They can spend on either security forces to keep a boot on the public's neck, or handouts to keep them pacified, or some mixture. The rest they just use to live large.
They also spend money to manipulate politics elsewhere and keep that game going. The USA is easy to manipulate with money.
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and russia is aiming at apartment buildings
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@Photo55 A blown up barrel of oil has a value of zero dollars, so I agree with you there!
@txtx @Photo55 @roblosricos @Npars01 @benroyce Not only that but they are going to pump another barrel somewhere to replace it. So you double the environmental impact.
Probably more than double. There is no clean tech on an explosion.
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@txtx @Photo55 @roblosricos @Npars01 @benroyce Not only that but they are going to pump another barrel somewhere to replace it. So you double the environmental impact.
Probably more than double. There is no clean tech on an explosion.
@mike805 Well Russia should stop their stupid war then shouldn't they — Putin can then unleash the environmentalist hidden deep inside him and stop pumping all that extra oil.
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@mike805 Well Russia should stop their stupid war then shouldn't they — Putin can then unleash the environmentalist hidden deep inside him and stop pumping all that extra oil.
@txtx @Photo55 @roblosricos @Npars01 @benroyce Yeah, not likely. There is no environmentalist inside Putin. He is the best current example of a hard power, militarist, fossil fuel dinosaur powered leader.
Green utopia, if it ever exists, will have to figure out how to defend itself against such people. Because both warlike pricks and the dinosaur juice to power their forces will always exist.
