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  3. So, Chrome's "web standard" Prompt API:

So, Chrome's "web standard" Prompt API:

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  • nachtfunke@indieweb.socialN nachtfunke@indieweb.social

    @jaffathecake what are we as developers supposed to do here? We have literally no say in this whatsoever.

    It’s a genuine question, what are we supposed to? Because I subjectively feel like we could have done something maybe 10 years ago, but now…?

    lukew@toot.walesL This user is from outside of this forum
    lukew@toot.walesL This user is from outside of this forum
    lukew@toot.wales
    wrote last edited by
    #7

    @nachtfunke @jaffathecake I think the big power developers do still hold is to just not use this API. The web isn't cast in stone (as much as people may think it is), if the usage stays low enough there's a chance it might unship in years to come, or at least go through changes to make others more onboard (idk if that's feasible here though).

    1 Reply Last reply
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    • nachtfunke@indieweb.socialN nachtfunke@indieweb.social

      @jaffathecake Honestly, maybe the reality is just that we developers nowadays are positioned too much by business practices that the majority is indeed strongly supportive. I don’t know anymore.

      I am tired of this all. When you’re sounding the alarm early you’re being negative and when you criticize it when it’s a manifest problem then you’re being called complicit.

      I don’t know anymore. Im a modern Luddite at this point

      af@cas.socialA This user is from outside of this forum
      af@cas.socialA This user is from outside of this forum
      af@cas.social
      wrote last edited by
      #8

      @nachtfunke @jaffathecake
      My conclusion from the earlier browser wars: history unfortunately repeats itself, and too much market dominance is harmful to platform-independent web standards.

      nachtfunke@indieweb.socialN 1 Reply Last reply
      0
      • af@cas.socialA af@cas.social

        @nachtfunke @jaffathecake
        My conclusion from the earlier browser wars: history unfortunately repeats itself, and too much market dominance is harmful to platform-independent web standards.

        nachtfunke@indieweb.socialN This user is from outside of this forum
        nachtfunke@indieweb.socialN This user is from outside of this forum
        nachtfunke@indieweb.social
        wrote last edited by
        #9

        @af yes indeed. I would argue that market dynamics shouldn't have any influence on the infrastructure of modern human connection.

        1 Reply Last reply
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        • jaffathecake@mastodon.socialJ jaffathecake@mastodon.social

          @nachtfunke oh, Google had you all down as "strongly supportive" https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/g/blink-dev/c/iR6R7-nQeHI/m/gN4iEGEdAQAJ

          phl@mastodon.socialP This user is from outside of this forum
          phl@mastodon.socialP This user is from outside of this forum
          phl@mastodon.social
          wrote last edited by
          #10

          @jaffathecake @nachtfunke I loved that one when I read it the other day 😄 The strongly supportive was one comment in a github issue, a blog that doesn't exist anymore, and another blog post. Overwhelming interest, overwhelming support! 😄

          thecatburgler@mastodon.socialT 1 Reply Last reply
          0
          • jaffathecake@mastodon.socialJ jaffathecake@mastodon.social

            So, Chrome's "web standard" Prompt API:

            Mozilla: Opposed
            WebKit: Opposed
            Microsoft: Several concerns
            W3C TAG: Several concerns
            Developers: Mostly negative

            Chrome: Ships anyway.

            A sad time for web standards. But, I guess someone at Google will get promoted, so 'every cloud…'

            raymaccarthy@mastodon.ieR This user is from outside of this forum
            raymaccarthy@mastodon.ieR This user is from outside of this forum
            raymaccarthy@mastodon.ie
            wrote last edited by
            #11

            @jaffathecake
            Google / Alphabet needs to have Android & Chrome divested from them and them kicked out of everything.

            They are an Advertising agency that cares nothing about local laws or people.
            Somel finance from Eric Schmidt, who was CEO for a while. Hides from public eye and hardly mentioned in history of Google. He turned it into an advertising agency fuelled by surveillance.
            Google Analytics and Recaptcha are evil tools they use that no-one should deploy, or any other Google service.

            raymaccarthy@mastodon.ieR 1 Reply Last reply
            0
            • jaffathecake@mastodon.socialJ jaffathecake@mastodon.social

              @nachtfunke oh, Google had you all down as "strongly supportive" https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/g/blink-dev/c/iR6R7-nQeHI/m/gN4iEGEdAQAJ

              joshhunt@hachyderm.ioJ This user is from outside of this forum
              joshhunt@hachyderm.ioJ This user is from outside of this forum
              joshhunt@hachyderm.io
              wrote last edited by
              #12

              @jaffathecake Maybe there's some definition of "developers" in the spec process, but I think it is problematic to consider "developers" to be one giant mass.

              I agree with you - this is a bad API. But especially given the topic, I think this process self-selects for the most vocal, and I can imagine there are loads of developers out there that are genuinely supportive of an API like this.

              jaffathecake@mastodon.socialJ 1 Reply Last reply
              0
              • jaffathecake@mastodon.socialJ jaffathecake@mastodon.social

                So, Chrome's "web standard" Prompt API:

                Mozilla: Opposed
                WebKit: Opposed
                Microsoft: Several concerns
                W3C TAG: Several concerns
                Developers: Mostly negative

                Chrome: Ships anyway.

                A sad time for web standards. But, I guess someone at Google will get promoted, so 'every cloud…'

                dozymoe@mastodon.socialD This user is from outside of this forum
                dozymoe@mastodon.socialD This user is from outside of this forum
                dozymoe@mastodon.social
                wrote last edited by
                #13

                @jaffathecake agents in your very browsers

                1 Reply Last reply
                0
                • jaffathecake@mastodon.socialJ jaffathecake@mastodon.social

                  So, Chrome's "web standard" Prompt API:

                  Mozilla: Opposed
                  WebKit: Opposed
                  Microsoft: Several concerns
                  W3C TAG: Several concerns
                  Developers: Mostly negative

                  Chrome: Ships anyway.

                  A sad time for web standards. But, I guess someone at Google will get promoted, so 'every cloud…'

                  clutch_lever@mastodon.socialC This user is from outside of this forum
                  clutch_lever@mastodon.socialC This user is from outside of this forum
                  clutch_lever@mastodon.social
                  wrote last edited by
                  #14

                  @jaffathecake I've been saying chrome is the new ie for years...

                  1 Reply Last reply
                  0
                  • joshhunt@hachyderm.ioJ joshhunt@hachyderm.io

                    @jaffathecake Maybe there's some definition of "developers" in the spec process, but I think it is problematic to consider "developers" to be one giant mass.

                    I agree with you - this is a bad API. But especially given the topic, I think this process self-selects for the most vocal, and I can imagine there are loads of developers out there that are genuinely supportive of an API like this.

                    jaffathecake@mastodon.socialJ This user is from outside of this forum
                    jaffathecake@mastodon.socialJ This user is from outside of this forum
                    jaffathecake@mastodon.social
                    wrote last edited by
                    #15

                    @joshhunt if there is then they failed to show it. They posted a couple of links, including a survey about something else.

                    oblomov@sociale.networkO 1 Reply Last reply
                    0
                    • jaffathecake@mastodon.socialJ jaffathecake@mastodon.social

                      So, Chrome's "web standard" Prompt API:

                      Mozilla: Opposed
                      WebKit: Opposed
                      Microsoft: Several concerns
                      W3C TAG: Several concerns
                      Developers: Mostly negative

                      Chrome: Ships anyway.

                      A sad time for web standards. But, I guess someone at Google will get promoted, so 'every cloud…'

                      bit@ohai.socialB This user is from outside of this forum
                      bit@ohai.socialB This user is from outside of this forum
                      bit@ohai.social
                      wrote last edited by
                      #16

                      @jaffathecake

                      Alternatives are available.
                      https://www.firefox.com

                      thestonedonkey@beige.partyT 1 Reply Last reply
                      0
                      • bit@ohai.socialB bit@ohai.social

                        @jaffathecake

                        Alternatives are available.
                        https://www.firefox.com

                        thestonedonkey@beige.partyT This user is from outside of this forum
                        thestonedonkey@beige.partyT This user is from outside of this forum
                        thestonedonkey@beige.party
                        wrote last edited by
                        #17

                        @bit I switched to it last year and not had any issues.  It's a great alternative if your tired of all the nonsense Chrome keeps rolling out.

                        1 Reply Last reply
                        0
                        • raymaccarthy@mastodon.ieR raymaccarthy@mastodon.ie

                          @jaffathecake
                          Google / Alphabet needs to have Android & Chrome divested from them and them kicked out of everything.

                          They are an Advertising agency that cares nothing about local laws or people.
                          Somel finance from Eric Schmidt, who was CEO for a while. Hides from public eye and hardly mentioned in history of Google. He turned it into an advertising agency fuelled by surveillance.
                          Google Analytics and Recaptcha are evil tools they use that no-one should deploy, or any other Google service.

                          raymaccarthy@mastodon.ieR This user is from outside of this forum
                          raymaccarthy@mastodon.ieR This user is from outside of this forum
                          raymaccarthy@mastodon.ie
                          wrote last edited by
                          #18

                          @jaffathecake
                          Amazon, Google, Apple, Musk etc show the huge flaw in allowing shares as collateral for loans as "payment" for a takeover, often described as a merger.

                          Obscene Capitalism.

                          Link Preview Image
                          List of mergers and acquisitions by Amazon - Wikipedia

                          favicon

                          (en.wikipedia.org)

                          Link Preview Image
                          List of mergers and acquisitions by Alphabet - Wikipedia

                          favicon

                          (en.wikipedia.org)

                          Link Preview Image
                          List of mergers and acquisitions by Apple - Wikipedia

                          favicon

                          (en.wikipedia.org)

                          Musk is rich by background, luck & stupidity of other people, partly Peter Thiel.

                          Link Preview Image
                          Business career of Elon Musk - Wikipedia

                          favicon

                          (en.wikipedia.org)

                          Paid Tesla to claim he was a founder.

                          1 Reply Last reply
                          0
                          • jaffathecake@mastodon.socialJ jaffathecake@mastodon.social

                            So, Chrome's "web standard" Prompt API:

                            Mozilla: Opposed
                            WebKit: Opposed
                            Microsoft: Several concerns
                            W3C TAG: Several concerns
                            Developers: Mostly negative

                            Chrome: Ships anyway.

                            A sad time for web standards. But, I guess someone at Google will get promoted, so 'every cloud…'

                            lemgandi@mastodon.socialL This user is from outside of this forum
                            lemgandi@mastodon.socialL This user is from outside of this forum
                            lemgandi@mastodon.social
                            wrote last edited by
                            #19

                            @jaffathecake Internal politics trumps external reactions every time.

                            I am currently using waterfox, a Clean fork of Firefox ( no AI features, kill switch or no )

                            1 Reply Last reply
                            0
                            • phl@mastodon.socialP phl@mastodon.social

                              @jaffathecake @nachtfunke I loved that one when I read it the other day 😄 The strongly supportive was one comment in a github issue, a blog that doesn't exist anymore, and another blog post. Overwhelming interest, overwhelming support! 😄

                              thecatburgler@mastodon.socialT This user is from outside of this forum
                              thecatburgler@mastodon.socialT This user is from outside of this forum
                              thecatburgler@mastodon.social
                              wrote last edited by
                              #20

                              @phl @jaffathecake @nachtfunke

                              Ya know they say threes a crowd 😅

                              1 Reply Last reply
                              0
                              • jaffathecake@mastodon.socialJ jaffathecake@mastodon.social

                                So, Chrome's "web standard" Prompt API:

                                Mozilla: Opposed
                                WebKit: Opposed
                                Microsoft: Several concerns
                                W3C TAG: Several concerns
                                Developers: Mostly negative

                                Chrome: Ships anyway.

                                A sad time for web standards. But, I guess someone at Google will get promoted, so 'every cloud…'

                                simonzerafa@infosec.exchangeS This user is from outside of this forum
                                simonzerafa@infosec.exchangeS This user is from outside of this forum
                                simonzerafa@infosec.exchange
                                wrote last edited by
                                #21

                                @jaffathecake

                                Given the other shit that Google is shipping the moment, their browser won't be going onto any system that doesn't absolutely need it.

                                1 Reply Last reply
                                0
                                • jaffathecake@mastodon.socialJ jaffathecake@mastodon.social

                                  So, Chrome's "web standard" Prompt API:

                                  Mozilla: Opposed
                                  WebKit: Opposed
                                  Microsoft: Several concerns
                                  W3C TAG: Several concerns
                                  Developers: Mostly negative

                                  Chrome: Ships anyway.

                                  A sad time for web standards. But, I guess someone at Google will get promoted, so 'every cloud…'

                                  thecatburgler@mastodon.socialT This user is from outside of this forum
                                  thecatburgler@mastodon.socialT This user is from outside of this forum
                                  thecatburgler@mastodon.social
                                  wrote last edited by
                                  #22

                                  @jaffathecake

                                  Google is on the boycott list.
                                  They’re too big for anyone’s good & are tied in with the two governments that care more about big brother surveillance and holy wars than their people.

                                  I like ecosia (they plant trees for each search)
                                  Brave and Firefox are cool too

                                  1 Reply Last reply
                                  0
                                  • nachtfunke@indieweb.socialN nachtfunke@indieweb.social

                                    @jaffathecake what are we as developers supposed to do here? We have literally no say in this whatsoever.

                                    It’s a genuine question, what are we supposed to? Because I subjectively feel like we could have done something maybe 10 years ago, but now…?

                                    ragectl@hachyderm.ioR This user is from outside of this forum
                                    ragectl@hachyderm.ioR This user is from outside of this forum
                                    ragectl@hachyderm.io
                                    wrote last edited by
                                    #23

                                    @nachtfunke @jaffathecake oh that's easy developers needed to keep using and supporting Firefox because open internet matters more than anything else.

                                    Sadly, majority of developers failed at that, just like they did with Internet Exploder.

                                    1 Reply Last reply
                                    0
                                    • jaffathecake@mastodon.socialJ jaffathecake@mastodon.social

                                      So, Chrome's "web standard" Prompt API:

                                      Mozilla: Opposed
                                      WebKit: Opposed
                                      Microsoft: Several concerns
                                      W3C TAG: Several concerns
                                      Developers: Mostly negative

                                      Chrome: Ships anyway.

                                      A sad time for web standards. But, I guess someone at Google will get promoted, so 'every cloud…'

                                      yoasif@mastodon.socialY This user is from outside of this forum
                                      yoasif@mastodon.socialY This user is from outside of this forum
                                      yoasif@mastodon.social
                                      wrote last edited by
                                      #24

                                      @jaffathecake Sounds kind of like how #Mozilla pushed ahead with #AI even after your lying polls about the provenance of training data in translations and the multitude of negative comments here and on Mozilla Connect.

                                      Pretty good blind spot for Mozilla - you can only tell when things are bad when your competitors do it.

                                      Link Preview Image
                                      Firefox’s AI Kill Switch is a Trap: How Mozilla Made AI Your Problem

                                      TL;DR: Mozilla recently released AI controls for Firefox: a singlecontrol panel that lets people disable AI features in the browser or pick andchoose which t...

                                      favicon

                                      Youssuff Quips (www.quippd.com)

                                      platymew@layer8.spaceP 1 Reply Last reply
                                      0
                                      • jaffathecake@mastodon.socialJ jaffathecake@mastodon.social

                                        So, Chrome's "web standard" Prompt API:

                                        Mozilla: Opposed
                                        WebKit: Opposed
                                        Microsoft: Several concerns
                                        W3C TAG: Several concerns
                                        Developers: Mostly negative

                                        Chrome: Ships anyway.

                                        A sad time for web standards. But, I guess someone at Google will get promoted, so 'every cloud…'

                                        maikel@vmst.ioM This user is from outside of this forum
                                        maikel@vmst.ioM This user is from outside of this forum
                                        maikel@vmst.io
                                        wrote last edited by
                                        #25

                                        @jaffathecake internet explorer from its grave.

                                        1 Reply Last reply
                                        0
                                        • jaffathecake@mastodon.socialJ jaffathecake@mastodon.social

                                          @joshhunt if there is then they failed to show it. They posted a couple of links, including a survey about something else.

                                          oblomov@sociale.networkO This user is from outside of this forum
                                          oblomov@sociale.networkO This user is from outside of this forum
                                          oblomov@sociale.network
                                          wrote last edited by
                                          #26

                                          @jaffathecake @joshhunt it's like the XSLT situation in reverse

                                          Google: we want to drop XSLT support

                                          web developers: we really want you to keep XSLT and possibly upgrade support for v3 of the standard so we can use it with JSON too

                                          Google: OK, we've listened to everybody's opinion and nobody wants XSLT so we're dropping it.

                                          oblomov@sociale.networkO 1 Reply Last reply
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