Nearly three-quarters (72%) of citizens agree: our union brings real benefits.
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@benroyce @jtb @EUCommission That was the case with the Kamala Harris votes, which is largely irrelevant here — in particular that we're not currently in an (EU) election season in the first place, and because election psyop/influence happens at a much lower level, at e.g. Russian interference in the Romanian elections, or each country's far-right parties financed by them (directly or indirectly). We're in rather different situations and different culture (i.e. what triggers or deters people).
"which is largely irrelevant here"
on the contrary, suppressing the vote with psyop demands for perfectionism works anywhere in the world
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@phl @benroyce @jtb @EUCommission yes but the president of the European Commission must be approved by the parliament. To me that sounds democratic, no?
@_p_i_e_ @jtb @EUCommission Kind of, sort of, and each citizen only has some control over a sliver of Parliament (the seats of their country), so if other countries predominantly elect from other European Parties, then that's very little control over the President of the Commission (and 0 on the other members).
But yeah, I guess von der Leyen herself is somewhat democratically approved.
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@benroyce @jtb @EUCommission I did, as I do every time, and we voted in the largest numbers ever since the change from the People's Republic era. Despite that like half of us are not whatsoever represented by the incoming conservative, right-wing government. And you probably have very little idea what the social and traditional media scene was like, because even in Europe most people were completely oblivious to just how fucked Hungary was in that respect. It could have deterred people, didn't.
and that is to the credit of the great people of hungary
and as you are someone from a country like the usa that suffers under right wing media psyop, you must also understand that psyop also plays out on social media, correct?
one angle: demand perfect now, don't get it, therefore don't vote
that's how it went here at least
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@benroyce @jtb @EUCommission Sure, it's the elected heads of states, and in the other council the ministers appointed by said elected heads of states, but that's just way too many layers — I don't think we can say we have any say in the matter.
Would you say that you, under any US president, have any kind of influence over who your Secretaries are and what they represent? And what they'd represent in an international formation with other Secretaries/Ministers?
@phl @benroyce @EUCommission Would you say that proportional reprisentation is more democratic than first past the post? It seems to me you always have the European People's Umbrella party in power.
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"which is largely irrelevant here"
on the contrary, suppressing the vote with psyop demands for perfectionism works anywhere in the world
@benroyce @jtb @EUCommission For the dozenth time, none of the comments in this conversation, and from what I've last seen none of the comments under the post demand perfection.
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@benroyce @richlv @paranormal_distribution@fosstodon.org @EUCommission An example of how to achieve one's goals is a study in how the GOP destroyed America in 45 years. Starting with Ronald Reagan and now with MAGA. Slowly taking over the systems and eroding trust, safety nets, education, and causing real pain, and blaming it on the Democrats. Watching what the EU has done in Europe is remarkable, and hopefully it can continue to serve its people.
@RegGuy @benroyce @richlv @paranormal_distribution@fosstodon.org @EUCommission yeah, I'm a big fan of the EU
I'm happy to be a citizen in an EU country and to be part of this great peace project Is it perfect? No, I don't think so. But it's still a wonderful thing.
My main wish for the EU would be for it to abandon English as a language. Having English as the main language for intercommunication just tilts the playing field in the direction of the USA and UK.
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@benroyce @phl @EUCommission Perhaps you should have led by asking me if I vote. The rest of it was a waste of time. I am not going to stop expressing my views on social media just because you are going on and on at me, characterising what I said as shouting and screaming. It was a counter-productive ploy on your part.
there are people who vote who still push the "demand perfect now, don't get it, therefore don't vote" psyop angle
they are doing the right thing, yet they give voice to the effect that stops others from doing the right thing
again i have zero problem with you if you vote. i am still allowed to point out out that perfectionist shouting at social media accounts that can't do anything is pointless
but don't listen to me, listen to a european:
Rihards Olups (@richlv@mastodon.social)
@paranormal_distribution@fosstodon.org @EUCommission@ec.social-network.europa.eu Just a quick note - if you care, call commissioners. Don't harass people who manage social media, especially the ones who manage Masto!
Mastodon (mastodon.social)
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@benroyce @jtb @EUCommission For the dozenth time, none of the comments in this conversation, and from what I've last seen none of the comments under the post demand perfection.
why don't you look at the sordid array of perfectionist shouting that always seem to reply whenever EUCommission posts, and tell me i'm misfiring here again
look at the reply above that i responded to that started this whole back and forth, its tenor, and tell me that again
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@benroyce @jtb @EUCommission Sure, it's the elected heads of states, and in the other council the ministers appointed by said elected heads of states, but that's just way too many layers — I don't think we can say we have any say in the matter.
Would you say that you, under any US president, have any kind of influence over who your Secretaries are and what they represent? And what they'd represent in an international formation with other Secretaries/Ministers?
@benroyce @jtb @EUCommission (Admission: I got momentarily confused and accidentally ended up describing the Council(s) rather than the Commission. The Commissioners are, however, just as multiple-layers-away as are one's secretaries/ministers, if not more, so saying you have influence on what they represent and what they stand for in particular issues is just as bold as saying the same about a sec/min. Importantly, Commissioners are chosen to represent EU and not their country.)
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@RegGuy @benroyce @richlv @paranormal_distribution@fosstodon.org @EUCommission yeah, I'm a big fan of the EU
I'm happy to be a citizen in an EU country and to be part of this great peace project Is it perfect? No, I don't think so. But it's still a wonderful thing.
My main wish for the EU would be for it to abandon English as a language. Having English as the main language for intercommunication just tilts the playing field in the direction of the USA and UK.
@ehrt74 @RegGuy @richlv @paranormal_distribution@fosstodon.org @EUCommission
i think that's just an unfortunate aspect of history
you could pick another language, but then there's more effort involved
since english is more well understood than any other language in terms of second language adoption in many countries
i'm not supporting the status quo. fuck english
but i'm just saying there's a heavy inertia here
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@ehrt74 @RegGuy @richlv @paranormal_distribution@fosstodon.org @EUCommission
i think that's just an unfortunate aspect of history
you could pick another language, but then there's more effort involved
since english is more well understood than any other language in terms of second language adoption in many countries
i'm not supporting the status quo. fuck english
but i'm just saying there's a heavy inertia here
@benroyce @RegGuy @richlv @paranormal_distribution@fosstodon.org @EUCommission yeah, there is a lot of inertia, and I think I've done enough derailing by mentioning it, so I'll leave it there.
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@benroyce @jtb @EUCommission (Admission: I got momentarily confused and accidentally ended up describing the Council(s) rather than the Commission. The Commissioners are, however, just as multiple-layers-away as are one's secretaries/ministers, if not more, so saying you have influence on what they represent and what they stand for in particular issues is just as bold as saying the same about a sec/min. Importantly, Commissioners are chosen to represent EU and not their country.)
"I got momentarily confused and accidentally ended up describing the Council(s) rather than the Commission"
i think i'll call this momentary harmless error on your part the Pauli exclusion principle
i'm sorry i'm just making a lame joke
i think this thread has run its course and i don't have a real problem with you and i appreciate you
but you have to admit the constant perfectionist shouting under ever EUCommission post is quite ridiculous and pointless
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right: they are appointed by people you elect
so...
look, criticize all you want. demand better. but work for it, don't just screech online
take it from this american: toxic idealist entitled demands don't achieve anything, and are often a right wing cosplay to redirect attention
the kind of replies i see under the top account i always recognize as the sort of hypercritical perfectionism that led the usa to where it is today
@benroyce @phl @jtb @EUCommission The European Parliament is elected directly in the European Elections, the Commission is elected indirectly by those we elect nationally.
Screaming and Farraging "unnelected" is either disingenuous or stupid.
Should we directly elect the European Commission? Maybe yes, but don't even fucking suggest it is "antidemocratic "because those who put that idea in your head actually meant "supranational" -
@benroyce @phl @jtb @EUCommission The European Parliament is elected directly in the European Elections, the Commission is elected indirectly by those we elect nationally.
Screaming and Farraging "unnelected" is either disingenuous or stupid.
Should we directly elect the European Commission? Maybe yes, but don't even fucking suggest it is "antidemocratic "because those who put that idea in your head actually meant "supranational"@aurochs @benroyce @phl @EUCommission "Screaming and Farraging"?? it gets worse.
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@aurochs @benroyce @phl @EUCommission "Screaming and Farraging"?? it gets worse.
@jtb @benroyce @phl @EUCommission Sorry, I meant "Faraging", and yes, I made up that word.
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@benroyce @phl @jtb @EUCommission The European Parliament is elected directly in the European Elections, the Commission is elected indirectly by those we elect nationally.
Screaming and Farraging "unnelected" is either disingenuous or stupid.
Should we directly elect the European Commission? Maybe yes, but don't even fucking suggest it is "antidemocratic "because those who put that idea in your head actually meant "supranational"you know what
i agree with aurochs. i was trying to be generous but upon reflection your positions are deranged
democracy is about electing key players, it's not about electing every god damn bureaucrat in a system
the EU is democratic, because your vote flows from who you elect, to appoint the reps
this *is* democracy
asking people to elect every damned bureaucrat is not arguing for more democracy, it's arguing for madness
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@aurochs @benroyce @phl @EUCommission "Screaming and Farraging"?? it gets worse.
@jtb @aurochs @phl @EUCommission
well then don't push lying "undemocratic!" angles that Farage would love then
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@RegGuy @benroyce @richlv @paranormal_distribution@fosstodon.org @EUCommission yeah, I'm a big fan of the EU
I'm happy to be a citizen in an EU country and to be part of this great peace project Is it perfect? No, I don't think so. But it's still a wonderful thing.
My main wish for the EU would be for it to abandon English as a language. Having English as the main language for intercommunication just tilts the playing field in the direction of the USA and UK.
@ehrt74 @RegGuy @benroyce @richlv @paranormal_distribution@fosstodon.org @EUCommission Unfortunately there's no other language as widely understood across the EU as English is.
(and English remains an EU language because it is an official language of both Ireland and Malta)But in any case, every publication happens in the official EU languages, of which there are many (and some major regional ones are woefully missing, eg. Catalan) — and IIRC Parliament members typically speak in their own language.
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@jtb @benroyce @phl @EUCommission Sorry, I meant "Faraging", and yes, I made up that word.
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@jtb @aurochs @phl @EUCommission
well then don't push lying "undemocratic!" angles that Farage would love then
@benroyce @aurochs @phl @EUCommission The commissioners are unelected, the commissioners write laws. The commissioners should be elected. You can disagree if you like, but calling people names doesn't add weight, it reduces it.
