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  3. “software can’t just ignore laws it doesn’t like” it literally can.

“software can’t just ignore laws it doesn’t like” it literally can.

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  • perigee@rage.loveP perigee@rage.love

    @MrBerard @losttourist @zzt my tone is cool. I'm not proposing accepting a slipshod solution because "it's not that bad". It's going to start not that bad and become terrible because we gave it an inch and it will take a mile. As others have said, now is the time to oppose it. Not when it's gotten a foothold.

    mrberard@mastodon.acm.orgM This user is from outside of this forum
    mrberard@mastodon.acm.orgM This user is from outside of this forum
    mrberard@mastodon.acm.org
    wrote last edited by
    #91

    @perigee @losttourist @zzt

    Okay. But why does this moment constitute the foothold?

    Isn't the problem political rather than technological? All jurisdictions are moving towards age verification systems that are problematic enough without having OS level DoB verification, if we stop the Linux thing (which admittedly seems very out of sync with the philosophy), these are still there.

    Sure, it's better if the Linux thing isn't, all things equal, but the foothold is a sociopolitical one?

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    • hakona@im.alstadheim.noH hakona@im.alstadheim.no

      @sabik Came here to say this . A "J" in the upper right corner of a filing card can't hurt. Social security , employment , inmates , all kinds of records had that convenient open space.
      @zzt @jwz

      rootwyrm@weird.autosR This user is from outside of this forum
      rootwyrm@weird.autosR This user is from outside of this forum
      rootwyrm@weird.autos
      wrote last edited by
      #92

      @hakona @sabik @zzt @jwz there's a reason the Venn diagram of eugenicists, "race scientists," AI boosters, and people who insist code is just 'incrementing variables' is just a circle.

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      • zzt@mas.toZ zzt@mas.to

        “software can’t just ignore laws it doesn’t like” it literally can. corporations do it constantly and I really doubt any of them will drop linux if it doesn’t comply with a set of godawful fascist age verification laws. historically one of the forms of pushback against unjust laws is to show some basic fucking solidarity and do nothing to assist in their enforcement because it really isn’t practical to sue everybody, but unfortunately solidarity is alien to most of these computer fuckers

        zzt@mas.toZ This user is from outside of this forum
        zzt@mas.toZ This user is from outside of this forum
        zzt@mas.to
        wrote last edited by
        #93

        “software can’t just ignore laws it doesn’t like,” I said, tapping the icon on my phone that summons an unlicensed taxi

        zzt@mas.toZ shitpostalotl@axfedi.derg.restS 2 Replies Last reply
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        • zzt@mas.toZ zzt@mas.to

          “software can’t just ignore laws it doesn’t like,” I said, tapping the icon on my phone that summons an unlicensed taxi

          zzt@mas.toZ This user is from outside of this forum
          zzt@mas.toZ This user is from outside of this forum
          zzt@mas.to
          wrote last edited by
          #94

          “software can’t just ignore laws it doesn’t like,” I said, while employed by a company that pays for residential proxies

          zzt@mas.toZ kiloku@burnthis.townK basiqueevangelist@mstdn.socialB 3 Replies Last reply
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          • zzt@mas.toZ zzt@mas.to

            “software can’t just ignore laws it doesn’t like,” I said, while employed by a company that pays for residential proxies

            zzt@mas.toZ This user is from outside of this forum
            zzt@mas.toZ This user is from outside of this forum
            zzt@mas.to
            wrote last edited by
            #95

            “software can’t just ignore laws it doesn’t like,” I said, from a linux system that can play and encode MP3s

            howtophil@oldbytes.spaceH bjorndown@mastodon.socialB codinghorror@infosec.exchangeC coq@framapiaf.orgC 4 Replies Last reply
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            • zzt@mas.toZ zzt@mas.to

              “software can’t just ignore laws it doesn’t like,” I said, while employed by a company that pays for residential proxies

              kiloku@burnthis.townK This user is from outside of this forum
              kiloku@burnthis.townK This user is from outside of this forum
              kiloku@burnthis.town
              wrote last edited by
              #96

              @zzt (local to my country)
              "Software can't just ignore laws it doesn't like" as most software developers in the nation are employed as "single-person corporation" contractors to avoid giving them labor rights required by law.

              zzt@mas.toZ 1 Reply Last reply
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              • zzt@mas.toZ zzt@mas.to

                “software can’t just ignore laws it doesn’t like,” I said, from a linux system that can play and encode MP3s

                howtophil@oldbytes.spaceH This user is from outside of this forum
                howtophil@oldbytes.spaceH This user is from outside of this forum
                howtophil@oldbytes.space
                wrote last edited by
                #97

                @zzt And DVDs

                wakame@tech.lgbtW 1 Reply Last reply
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                • kiloku@burnthis.townK kiloku@burnthis.town

                  @zzt (local to my country)
                  "Software can't just ignore laws it doesn't like" as most software developers in the nation are employed as "single-person corporation" contractors to avoid giving them labor rights required by law.

                  zzt@mas.toZ This user is from outside of this forum
                  zzt@mas.toZ This user is from outside of this forum
                  zzt@mas.to
                  wrote last edited by
                  #98

                  @Kiloku “software can’t just ignore laws it doesn’t like,” I said while working illegal amounts of overtime to ship a game, on the understanding that if I don’t I’ll be fired

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                  • zzt@mas.toZ zzt@mas.to

                    @losttourist @MrBerard i love it when the part of my OS that verifies secure boot has just an uwu little field in its database with my personal info and the rest of the OS will be ever so kind as to use the same kind of age gate as all the porn sites currently being sued by US states due to age verification laws

                    under no circumstances will I read the laws or the written intent of the people behind the implementation to find out it absolutely won’t stop there

                    you fucking idiot

                    noisytoot@berkeley.edu.plN This user is from outside of this forum
                    noisytoot@berkeley.edu.plN This user is from outside of this forum
                    noisytoot@berkeley.edu.pl
                    wrote last edited by
                    #99
                    @zzt @losttourist @MrBerard what part of systemd verifies secure boot? systemd-boot isn't really part of systemd other than being maintained by the same people in the same repo, it's just a confusingly named bootloader
                    1 Reply Last reply
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                    • zzt@mas.toZ zzt@mas.to

                      “software can’t just ignore laws it doesn’t like,” I said, while employed by a company that pays for residential proxies

                      basiqueevangelist@mstdn.socialB This user is from outside of this forum
                      basiqueevangelist@mstdn.socialB This user is from outside of this forum
                      basiqueevangelist@mstdn.social
                      wrote last edited by
                      #100

                      @zzt this also includes the people who put SDKs from companies who provide residential proxies in their software

                      1 Reply Last reply
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                      • zzt@mas.toZ zzt@mas.to

                        the US can’t implement gun registration in most jurisdictions because literally nobody complied with any of the attempts to enforce it but yeah sure we have to do age verification or else an entire industry built on our free software will switch to ??????

                        foxes@bark.lgbtF This user is from outside of this forum
                        foxes@bark.lgbtF This user is from outside of this forum
                        foxes@bark.lgbt
                        wrote last edited by
                        #101

                        @zzt They probably will make it illegal to bypass that "attestation" and it will make for a good pretext for a "probable cause" for searches/arrests/investigations and fines/jail time/prison time.

                        That's by design - make a pointless law that the majority of people would break and enforce it very selectively against anyone with politics straying from "the right party" or being a part of some minority that "the right party" wants to subjugate/oppress/eradicate. And it comes with bonus points for isolating vulnerable groups. That's authoritarian playbook 101.

                        unlikelylass@mspsocial.netU 1 Reply Last reply
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                        • zzt@mas.toZ zzt@mas.to

                          “it’s just a column in a database” said presumably a full grown adult whose ability to live under capitalism is a column in their bank’s database

                          eljojo@ruby.socialE This user is from outside of this forum
                          eljojo@ruby.socialE This user is from outside of this forum
                          eljojo@ruby.social
                          wrote last edited by
                          #102

                          @zzt your whole thesis is that if we want to be in solidarity we should do nothing , while also acknowledging that the field in the database is basically a form of doing nothing. I like seeing the field as a form of plausible deniability, we done our job! — I believe there’s ways to interpret the current happenings in a light that’s much more aligned with your values, maybe take some time to try see it that way.

                          theentity@social.treehouse.systemsT 1 Reply Last reply
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                          • eljojo@ruby.socialE eljojo@ruby.social

                            @zzt your whole thesis is that if we want to be in solidarity we should do nothing , while also acknowledging that the field in the database is basically a form of doing nothing. I like seeing the field as a form of plausible deniability, we done our job! — I believe there’s ways to interpret the current happenings in a light that’s much more aligned with your values, maybe take some time to try see it that way.

                            theentity@social.treehouse.systemsT This user is from outside of this forum
                            theentity@social.treehouse.systemsT This user is from outside of this forum
                            theentity@social.treehouse.systems
                            wrote last edited by
                            #103

                            @eljojo @zzt

                            I have been lied to:

                            Link Preview Image
                            eljojo@ruby.socialE 1 Reply Last reply
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                            • howtophil@oldbytes.spaceH howtophil@oldbytes.space

                              @zzt And DVDs

                              wakame@tech.lgbtW This user is from outside of this forum
                              wakame@tech.lgbtW This user is from outside of this forum
                              wakame@tech.lgbt
                              wrote last edited by
                              #104

                              @howtophil @zzt

                              "Even mpg123 and the DeCSS dolphin are mad at you."

                              1 Reply Last reply
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                              • theentity@social.treehouse.systemsT theentity@social.treehouse.systems

                                @eljojo @zzt

                                I have been lied to:

                                Link Preview Image
                                eljojo@ruby.socialE This user is from outside of this forum
                                eljojo@ruby.socialE This user is from outside of this forum
                                eljojo@ruby.social
                                wrote last edited by
                                #105

                                @TheEntity @zzt joke's on you, the warranty only applies to posts, not replies. it's a different jurisdiction!

                                zzt@mas.toZ 1 Reply Last reply
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                                • zzt@mas.toZ zzt@mas.to

                                  “software can’t just ignore laws it doesn’t like,” I said, from a linux system that can play and encode MP3s

                                  bjorndown@mastodon.socialB This user is from outside of this forum
                                  bjorndown@mastodon.socialB This user is from outside of this forum
                                  bjorndown@mastodon.social
                                  wrote last edited by
                                  #106

                                  @zzt I mean, it prevents people from sending hate speech and/or other threats, right?

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                                  • chiraag@mastodon.onlineC chiraag@mastodon.online

                                    @zzt And no, I'm not missing the point. The point is that anyone who uses systemd-userdbd is affected, so the solution is to make it an optional bit of systemd (which Debian already does). Additionally, that bug was fixed, so users _can_ disable systemd-userdbd.{service,socket} now.

                                    I don't like this bullshit for sure, though. I just feel like being accurate matters here, and so much of what you're saying is wrong or at best misleading.

                                    rndanger@infosec.exchangeR This user is from outside of this forum
                                    rndanger@infosec.exchangeR This user is from outside of this forum
                                    rndanger@infosec.exchange
                                    wrote last edited by
                                    #107

                                    @chiraag @zzt
                                    It's just too bad not everyone has your acumen for Linux, but you don't seem to "get" people if you think all of this even made sense to most of us. (I actually think I'm ok with Linux and you went way beyond my comfort zone)

                                    I hope it won't be a surprise if i think the sensible interpretation from my perspective is to assume you know your ideas are not actually possible for normal people, so you are just mansplaining here

                                    chiraag@mastodon.onlineC 1 Reply Last reply
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                                    • R relay@relay.infosec.exchange shared this topic
                                    • prism@infosec.exchangeP prism@infosec.exchange

                                      @zzt The venn diagram between people claiming we can't ignore age verrification and the people who've been happily ignoring accessibility and privacy regulations for decades is a flat circle.

                                      bredroll@mas.toB This user is from outside of this forum
                                      bredroll@mas.toB This user is from outside of this forum
                                      bredroll@mas.to
                                      wrote last edited by
                                      #108

                                      @prism @zzt my worry about these ridiculous new laws is that they are either entirely impossible to really implement or will destroy entry into computers for kids.

                                      percieved "violation" of the nonsense laws will be applied at will by oppressive agencies to harass people on demand.

                                      but your point about accessibility is a good one

                                      bredroll@mas.toB 1 Reply Last reply
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                                      • zzt@mas.toZ zzt@mas.to

                                        “software can’t just ignore laws it doesn’t like” it literally can. corporations do it constantly and I really doubt any of them will drop linux if it doesn’t comply with a set of godawful fascist age verification laws. historically one of the forms of pushback against unjust laws is to show some basic fucking solidarity and do nothing to assist in their enforcement because it really isn’t practical to sue everybody, but unfortunately solidarity is alien to most of these computer fuckers

                                        drwho@masto.hackers.townD This user is from outside of this forum
                                        drwho@masto.hackers.townD This user is from outside of this forum
                                        drwho@masto.hackers.town
                                        wrote last edited by
                                        #109

                                        @zzt A lot of people haven't worked for big companies that have internal code repos with all the license information deleted, I guess.

                                        1 Reply Last reply
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                                        • eljojo@ruby.socialE eljojo@ruby.social

                                          @TheEntity @zzt joke's on you, the warranty only applies to posts, not replies. it's a different jurisdiction!

                                          zzt@mas.toZ This user is from outside of this forum
                                          zzt@mas.toZ This user is from outside of this forum
                                          zzt@mas.to
                                          wrote last edited by
                                          #110

                                          @eljojo @TheEntity groan. fuck off.

                                          1 Reply Last reply
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