“software can’t just ignore laws it doesn’t like” it literally can.
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I feel my asking a naive question has landed me into what I'll euphemistically describe as a 'heated debate'.
I'm kinda seeing both sides, on the one hand slippery slope arguments have questionable validity ('did you know copper wires can enable a surveillance network?') but on the other, if this change doesn't constitute a move worth opposing to you, what event down the line would you actually oppose?
Oh, and folks, cooling the tone would be welcome here.
@MrBerard @losttourist @zzt my tone is cool. I'm not proposing accepting a slipshod solution because "it's not that bad". It's going to start not that bad and become terrible because we gave it an inch and it will take a mile. As others have said, now is the time to oppose it. Not when it's gotten a foothold.
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@MrBerard @losttourist @zzt my tone is cool. I'm not proposing accepting a slipshod solution because "it's not that bad". It's going to start not that bad and become terrible because we gave it an inch and it will take a mile. As others have said, now is the time to oppose it. Not when it's gotten a foothold.
Okay. But why does this moment constitute the foothold?
Isn't the problem political rather than technological? All jurisdictions are moving towards age verification systems that are problematic enough without having OS level DoB verification, if we stop the Linux thing (which admittedly seems very out of sync with the philosophy), these are still there.
Sure, it's better if the Linux thing isn't, all things equal, but the foothold is a sociopolitical one?
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“software can’t just ignore laws it doesn’t like” it literally can. corporations do it constantly and I really doubt any of them will drop linux if it doesn’t comply with a set of godawful fascist age verification laws. historically one of the forms of pushback against unjust laws is to show some basic fucking solidarity and do nothing to assist in their enforcement because it really isn’t practical to sue everybody, but unfortunately solidarity is alien to most of these computer fuckers
“software can’t just ignore laws it doesn’t like,” I said, tapping the icon on my phone that summons an unlicensed taxi
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“software can’t just ignore laws it doesn’t like,” I said, tapping the icon on my phone that summons an unlicensed taxi
“software can’t just ignore laws it doesn’t like,” I said, while employed by a company that pays for residential proxies
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“software can’t just ignore laws it doesn’t like,” I said, while employed by a company that pays for residential proxies
“software can’t just ignore laws it doesn’t like,” I said, from a linux system that can play and encode MP3s
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“software can’t just ignore laws it doesn’t like,” I said, while employed by a company that pays for residential proxies
@zzt (local to my country)
"Software can't just ignore laws it doesn't like" as most software developers in the nation are employed as "single-person corporation" contractors to avoid giving them labor rights required by law. -
“software can’t just ignore laws it doesn’t like,” I said, from a linux system that can play and encode MP3s
@zzt And DVDs
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@zzt (local to my country)
"Software can't just ignore laws it doesn't like" as most software developers in the nation are employed as "single-person corporation" contractors to avoid giving them labor rights required by law.@Kiloku “software can’t just ignore laws it doesn’t like,” I said while working illegal amounts of overtime to ship a game, on the understanding that if I don’t I’ll be fired
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@losttourist @MrBerard i love it when the part of my OS that verifies secure boot has just an uwu little field in its database with my personal info and the rest of the OS will be ever so kind as to use the same kind of age gate as all the porn sites currently being sued by US states due to age verification laws
under no circumstances will I read the laws or the written intent of the people behind the implementation to find out it absolutely won’t stop there
you fucking idiot
@zzt @losttourist @MrBerard what part of systemd verifies secure boot? systemd-boot isn't really part of systemd other than being maintained by the same people in the same repo, it's just a confusingly named bootloader -
“software can’t just ignore laws it doesn’t like,” I said, while employed by a company that pays for residential proxies
@zzt this also includes the people who put SDKs from companies who provide residential proxies in their software
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the US can’t implement gun registration in most jurisdictions because literally nobody complied with any of the attempts to enforce it but yeah sure we have to do age verification or else an entire industry built on our free software will switch to ??????
@zzt They probably will make it illegal to bypass that "attestation" and it will make for a good pretext for a "probable cause" for searches/arrests/investigations and fines/jail time/prison time.
That's by design - make a pointless law that the majority of people would break and enforce it very selectively against anyone with politics straying from "the right party" or being a part of some minority that "the right party" wants to subjugate/oppress/eradicate. And it comes with bonus points for isolating vulnerable groups. That's authoritarian playbook 101.
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“it’s just a column in a database” said presumably a full grown adult whose ability to live under capitalism is a column in their bank’s database
@zzt your whole thesis is that if we want to be in solidarity we should do nothing , while also acknowledging that the field in the database is basically a form of doing nothing. I like seeing the field as a form of plausible deniability, we done our job! — I believe there’s ways to interpret the current happenings in a light that’s much more aligned with your values, maybe take some time to try see it that way.
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@zzt your whole thesis is that if we want to be in solidarity we should do nothing , while also acknowledging that the field in the database is basically a form of doing nothing. I like seeing the field as a form of plausible deniability, we done our job! — I believe there’s ways to interpret the current happenings in a light that’s much more aligned with your values, maybe take some time to try see it that way.
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@zzt And DVDs
"Even mpg123 and the DeCSS dolphin are mad at you."
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@TheEntity @zzt joke's on you, the warranty only applies to posts, not replies. it's a different jurisdiction!
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“software can’t just ignore laws it doesn’t like,” I said, from a linux system that can play and encode MP3s
@zzt I mean, it prevents people from sending hate speech and/or other threats, right?
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@zzt And no, I'm not missing the point. The point is that anyone who uses systemd-userdbd is affected, so the solution is to make it an optional bit of systemd (which Debian already does). Additionally, that bug was fixed, so users _can_ disable systemd-userdbd.{service,socket} now.
I don't like this bullshit for sure, though. I just feel like being accurate matters here, and so much of what you're saying is wrong or at best misleading.
@chiraag @zzt
It's just too bad not everyone has your acumen for Linux, but you don't seem to "get" people if you think all of this even made sense to most of us. (I actually think I'm ok with Linux and you went way beyond my comfort zone)I hope it won't be a surprise if i think the sensible interpretation from my perspective is to assume you know your ideas are not actually possible for normal people, so you are just mansplaining here
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R relay@relay.infosec.exchange shared this topic
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@zzt The venn diagram between people claiming we can't ignore age verrification and the people who've been happily ignoring accessibility and privacy regulations for decades is a flat circle.
@prism @zzt my worry about these ridiculous new laws is that they are either entirely impossible to really implement or will destroy entry into computers for kids.
percieved "violation" of the nonsense laws will be applied at will by oppressive agencies to harass people on demand.
but your point about accessibility is a good one
