“software can’t just ignore laws it doesn’t like” it literally can.
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“software can’t just ignore laws it doesn’t like,” I said, while employed by a company that pays for residential proxies
@zzt this also includes the people who put SDKs from companies who provide residential proxies in their software
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the US can’t implement gun registration in most jurisdictions because literally nobody complied with any of the attempts to enforce it but yeah sure we have to do age verification or else an entire industry built on our free software will switch to ??????
@zzt They probably will make it illegal to bypass that "attestation" and it will make for a good pretext for a "probable cause" for searches/arrests/investigations and fines/jail time/prison time.
That's by design - make a pointless law that the majority of people would break and enforce it very selectively against anyone with politics straying from "the right party" or being a part of some minority that "the right party" wants to subjugate/oppress/eradicate. And it comes with bonus points for isolating vulnerable groups. That's authoritarian playbook 101.
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“it’s just a column in a database” said presumably a full grown adult whose ability to live under capitalism is a column in their bank’s database
@zzt your whole thesis is that if we want to be in solidarity we should do nothing , while also acknowledging that the field in the database is basically a form of doing nothing. I like seeing the field as a form of plausible deniability, we done our job! — I believe there’s ways to interpret the current happenings in a light that’s much more aligned with your values, maybe take some time to try see it that way.
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@zzt your whole thesis is that if we want to be in solidarity we should do nothing , while also acknowledging that the field in the database is basically a form of doing nothing. I like seeing the field as a form of plausible deniability, we done our job! — I believe there’s ways to interpret the current happenings in a light that’s much more aligned with your values, maybe take some time to try see it that way.
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@zzt And DVDs
"Even mpg123 and the DeCSS dolphin are mad at you."
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@TheEntity @zzt joke's on you, the warranty only applies to posts, not replies. it's a different jurisdiction!
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“software can’t just ignore laws it doesn’t like,” I said, from a linux system that can play and encode MP3s
@zzt I mean, it prevents people from sending hate speech and/or other threats, right?
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@zzt And no, I'm not missing the point. The point is that anyone who uses systemd-userdbd is affected, so the solution is to make it an optional bit of systemd (which Debian already does). Additionally, that bug was fixed, so users _can_ disable systemd-userdbd.{service,socket} now.
I don't like this bullshit for sure, though. I just feel like being accurate matters here, and so much of what you're saying is wrong or at best misleading.
@chiraag @zzt
It's just too bad not everyone has your acumen for Linux, but you don't seem to "get" people if you think all of this even made sense to most of us. (I actually think I'm ok with Linux and you went way beyond my comfort zone)I hope it won't be a surprise if i think the sensible interpretation from my perspective is to assume you know your ideas are not actually possible for normal people, so you are just mansplaining here
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R relay@relay.infosec.exchange shared this topic
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@zzt The venn diagram between people claiming we can't ignore age verrification and the people who've been happily ignoring accessibility and privacy regulations for decades is a flat circle.
@prism @zzt my worry about these ridiculous new laws is that they are either entirely impossible to really implement or will destroy entry into computers for kids.
percieved "violation" of the nonsense laws will be applied at will by oppressive agencies to harass people on demand.
but your point about accessibility is a good one
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“software can’t just ignore laws it doesn’t like” it literally can. corporations do it constantly and I really doubt any of them will drop linux if it doesn’t comply with a set of godawful fascist age verification laws. historically one of the forms of pushback against unjust laws is to show some basic fucking solidarity and do nothing to assist in their enforcement because it really isn’t practical to sue everybody, but unfortunately solidarity is alien to most of these computer fuckers
@zzt A lot of people haven't worked for big companies that have internal code repos with all the license information deleted, I guess.
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@TheEntity @zzt joke's on you, the warranty only applies to posts, not replies. it's a different jurisdiction!
@eljojo @TheEntity groan. fuck off.
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@prism @zzt my worry about these ridiculous new laws is that they are either entirely impossible to really implement or will destroy entry into computers for kids.
percieved "violation" of the nonsense laws will be applied at will by oppressive agencies to harass people on demand.
but your point about accessibility is a good one
@prism @zzt i wonder if one route towards overturning these stupid laws is to challenge them in legally accurate but utterly, obviously stupid cases.
like, citing the definition of an "operating system/vendor/developer" to sue CCTV manufacturers or home thermostats or cooking appliances or refrigerators or washing machines for non compliance
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@zzt They probably will make it illegal to bypass that "attestation" and it will make for a good pretext for a "probable cause" for searches/arrests/investigations and fines/jail time/prison time.
That's by design - make a pointless law that the majority of people would break and enforce it very selectively against anyone with politics straying from "the right party" or being a part of some minority that "the right party" wants to subjugate/oppress/eradicate. And it comes with bonus points for isolating vulnerable groups. That's authoritarian playbook 101.
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@prism @zzt i wonder if one route towards overturning these stupid laws is to challenge them in legally accurate but utterly, obviously stupid cases.
like, citing the definition of an "operating system/vendor/developer" to sue CCTV manufacturers or home thermostats or cooking appliances or refrigerators or washing machines for non compliance
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“software can’t just ignore laws it doesn’t like” it literally can. corporations do it constantly and I really doubt any of them will drop linux if it doesn’t comply with a set of godawful fascist age verification laws. historically one of the forms of pushback against unjust laws is to show some basic fucking solidarity and do nothing to assist in their enforcement because it really isn’t practical to sue everybody, but unfortunately solidarity is alien to most of these computer fuckers
“you advocate for doing nothing as solidarity and yet you denounce [literally doing the thing] even though it’s the same as doing nothing” you realize we can tell when you got your awful opinion from hacker news right?
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@chiraag @zzt
It's just too bad not everyone has your acumen for Linux, but you don't seem to "get" people if you think all of this even made sense to most of us. (I actually think I'm ok with Linux and you went way beyond my comfort zone)I hope it won't be a surprise if i think the sensible interpretation from my perspective is to assume you know your ideas are not actually possible for normal people, so you are just mansplaining here
@RnDanger I figured OP _would_ know what I was talking about since they brought up systemd's preemptive capitulation in the first place, though. As for whether what I am suggesting is reasonable (removing systemd-userdbd or picking a distro where it is optional), that is *eminently* doable. The only dependence on systemd-userdbd in Debian is systemd-homed, another optional component.
1/?
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@RnDanger I figured OP _would_ know what I was talking about since they brought up systemd's preemptive capitulation in the first place, though. As for whether what I am suggesting is reasonable (removing systemd-userdbd or picking a distro where it is optional), that is *eminently* doable. The only dependence on systemd-userdbd in Debian is systemd-homed, another optional component.
1/?
@RnDanger Pretending as though systemd is introducing this to some required component (the general thrust of the discussions I have read) is just wrong. I'm not saying it's not an issue - it very much *is* - but, at least for right now, the component within which this has been introduced is completely and utterly optional.
2/?
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@RnDanger Pretending as though systemd is introducing this to some required component (the general thrust of the discussions I have read) is just wrong. I'm not saying it's not an issue - it very much *is* - but, at least for right now, the component within which this has been introduced is completely and utterly optional.
2/?
@RnDanger My general take on the situation is this: I'm not happy that systemd is complying in advance. That is stupid and we should fight this crap. The _reason_ they introduced it is actually far more worrying (they're talking about *consumers* of that field being stuff like flatpak) and IMO is where the discussion should be focused because those components are far more integrated into general user-facing systems.
3/?
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@RnDanger My general take on the situation is this: I'm not happy that systemd is complying in advance. That is stupid and we should fight this crap. The _reason_ they introduced it is actually far more worrying (they're talking about *consumers* of that field being stuff like flatpak) and IMO is where the discussion should be focused because those components are far more integrated into general user-facing systems.
3/?
@RnDanger Like, the problem with systemd introducing this isn't the place they introduced it, but rather their rationale for doing so (and not just preemptive compliance). It is just wrong to say that userdbd is some integral system component (it is *not*), but it's a reasonable worry that it might soon *become* something integral. That worry is tied to the steps other components (such as flatpak!) have been taking in this direction, which IMO is far more worrying.
4/4
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@zzt @MrBerard "age verification code" is a bit of a grandiose term for a field that can store a value and retrieve a value. There is nothing anywhere in systemd that determines how (or even if) a distro decides what value to put into that field.
Even if it does get used by a distro, it is likely to be something along the lines of
"please enter your age. don't lie because that would be naughty > "when creating a new user account.
@losttourist @zzt @MrBerard I’m sure it will stop right there, said the credulous fool.
