Lots of people talking about buying solar panels.
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another way of saying this
there are about 200W/square meterwhich for those of us with rudimentary math, is a lot cleaner expression ??
@failedLyndonLaRouchite yep. But if I jump to that, someone will moan.
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@failedLyndonLaRouchite yep. But if I jump to that, someone will moan.
oh god, that is so true . .
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@quixoticgeek @billiglarper @annantidote @edavies It's sounding like until solar balconies are more of a thing here, it's not useful to me for more than a backup source of power in an emergency.
@disorderlyf @quixoticgeek @billiglarper @annantidote @edavies
Ours is actually a Solar and grid charged UPS.
We run all the core stuff, 3x freezers, big fridge, server, WAN/LAN/Satellite, PCs etc 24x7 off it. No feed to grid, so no cert or smart meter. We have a dumb meter & pay cash when the bill arrives.
In emergency we can swap plug socket and finish wash cycle of clothes or dishes, or even add airfry/uWave.
Halved the bill.
Save more in winter if smart meter by charge at night for daytime. -
Lots of people talking about buying solar panels. Alas if you look online there's a lot of retailers with all sorts of panels for sale, not all of which are honest. Want an easy way to check if the listed power output is plausible?
Example using a 50w panel listed on Amazon. It's 370x820mm.
Step 1 calculate the area in square meters. (0.37*0.82=0.3034)
Step 2 multiply by 1000w. (0.3034*1000=303.4)
Step 3 assume 20% efficiency and multiply (303.4x0.2=60.68)60.68>50w. It's Plausible.
@quixoticgeek Great post. Distilling info into self-contained useful advice is a rare skill.
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Depends.
The theoretical maximum efficiency for a single layer silicon solar cell is about 32%. So getting a 23-24% efficiency isn't bad.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shockley%E2%80%93Queisser_limit
@billiglarper @quixoticgeek :0 i guess there's not that much room for improvement then
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@billiglarper @quixoticgeek :0 i guess there's not that much room for improvement then
At least for consumers for now.
There's bifacial cells, where the backside also collects sunlight. But positioning matters a lot.
https://www.energysage.com/solar/bifacial-solar-panels-what-you-need-to-know/It's possible to combine multiple layers to increase output (multi-junction cells). 32% efficiency is a thing. But this is DAMN expensive.
https://www.azurspace.com/en/products/space-products/There's research on adding hybrid-organic (Perovskite) or organic solar cell layers. Would be huge if it works.
https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20251015-perovskite-the-wonder-material-that-could-transform-solar-energy -
At least for consumers for now.
There's bifacial cells, where the backside also collects sunlight. But positioning matters a lot.
https://www.energysage.com/solar/bifacial-solar-panels-what-you-need-to-know/It's possible to combine multiple layers to increase output (multi-junction cells). 32% efficiency is a thing. But this is DAMN expensive.
https://www.azurspace.com/en/products/space-products/There's research on adding hybrid-organic (Perovskite) or organic solar cell layers. Would be huge if it works.
https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20251015-perovskite-the-wonder-material-that-could-transform-solar-energy@billiglarper @vgarzareyna all true. But if you're getting your advice on solar panel rating plausibility, you're not getting any of those, so the basics check stands. But yes. There are some edge cases.
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@billiglarper @vgarzareyna all true. But if you're getting your advice on solar panel rating plausibility, you're not getting any of those, so the basics check stands. But yes. There are some edge cases.
@quixoticgeek @billiglarper @vgarzareyna And it’s not fedi without pedantry!
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@billiglarper @vgarzareyna all true. But if you're getting your advice on solar panel rating plausibility, you're not getting any of those, so the basics check stands. But yes. There are some edge cases.
Oh, absolutely. ~23% it will be for quite some time.
Just trying to be positive by pointing out that this it's not a hard limit and technological innovation is possible.
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@billiglarper @quixoticgeek :0 i guess there's not that much room for improvement then
@vgarzareyna @billiglarper @quixoticgeek there isn't, but IMO the language of efficiency is a bit misleading when it comes to solar panels because we're using to thinking low efficiency = bad and needs fixing. That's true for fossil fuel technologies, where the energy put into the system is in a form that is rare, expensive and dangerous, so it matters a lot what percentage of that energy in is actually going to come out as useful work.
Photons from the sky are ludicrously plentiful and free, so the trajectory of solar panel manufacture has generally been to not worry too much about pushing the limits on efficiency, and work instead on making them cheaper and cheaper. And it's worked, solar is now the world's cheapest energy source! The solar panels we already know how to make are GREAT, the improvement needed is nearly all in, well, political will. (And battery storage/grid stability, but that's just political will in a trenchcoat.)
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@vgarzareyna @billiglarper @quixoticgeek there isn't, but IMO the language of efficiency is a bit misleading when it comes to solar panels because we're using to thinking low efficiency = bad and needs fixing. That's true for fossil fuel technologies, where the energy put into the system is in a form that is rare, expensive and dangerous, so it matters a lot what percentage of that energy in is actually going to come out as useful work.
Photons from the sky are ludicrously plentiful and free, so the trajectory of solar panel manufacture has generally been to not worry too much about pushing the limits on efficiency, and work instead on making them cheaper and cheaper. And it's worked, solar is now the world's cheapest energy source! The solar panels we already know how to make are GREAT, the improvement needed is nearly all in, well, political will. (And battery storage/grid stability, but that's just political will in a trenchcoat.)
@bloodripelives @vgarzareyna @billiglarper yep.. basically the only time we need to care about even greater efficiency than we have now is if your putting the panels on something moving, like a boat, plane, or space craft. But I'd you're doing that, you're getting advice from a nerd on fedi...
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@disorderlyf @quixoticgeek @annantidote @edavies
The regulations for "balcony solar" in Canada might be different to Germany.
Plug-in balcony solar panels could mean cheaper power. But Canada needs to get on board first | CBC News
How would you like to lower your electricity bill and help power your home using an abundant renewable energy source — the sun? There is an affordable, do-it-yourself solution for people who own houses, apartment renters and condo dwellers, that doesn't cost buckets of money or require any sort of tedious installation. But, it's not widely available or permitted in Canada yet.
CBC (www.cbc.ca)
@billiglarper @disorderlyf @quixoticgeek @edavies maybe, and probably and thanks for the link, but i dont want to read german regulations (very detailed and complicated lingo) until i have an overview, specially of hardware, tech stuff and installation possibilities.
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@quixoticgeek why only 20%?:0
@vgarzareyna @quixoticgeek plants are about 2%, so we're 10x on nature already. And plants are how you make wood chip or coal for burning.
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@DavidPenington the reason I used this example, is one of the main areas where solar panel power rating is often inflated is on small portable setups for things like hiking, camping, etc... it might not be what you need to run your apartment on, but it may be enough to charge your phone when camping.
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@HollieK72 @DavidPenington exactly. I just used an example of Amazon. The same maths works for any panel. So when you are a stack of 10 440w panel offered for sale for a good price. You can check the size with the maths I showed and see if they really are 440w panels or if someone is trying to scam you.
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@HollieK72 @failedLyndonLaRouchite I'm out of characters...
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Lots of people talking about buying solar panels. Alas if you look online there's a lot of retailers with all sorts of panels for sale, not all of which are honest. Want an easy way to check if the listed power output is plausible?
Example using a 50w panel listed on Amazon. It's 370x820mm.
Step 1 calculate the area in square meters. (0.37*0.82=0.3034)
Step 2 multiply by 1000w. (0.3034*1000=303.4)
Step 3 assume 20% efficiency and multiply (303.4x0.2=60.68)60.68>50w. It's Plausible.
@quixoticgeek @ShaulaEvans That is GOOD info. Thank-you.
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Lots of people talking about buying solar panels. Alas if you look online there's a lot of retailers with all sorts of panels for sale, not all of which are honest. Want an easy way to check if the listed power output is plausible?
Example using a 50w panel listed on Amazon. It's 370x820mm.
Step 1 calculate the area in square meters. (0.37*0.82=0.3034)
Step 2 multiply by 1000w. (0.3034*1000=303.4)
Step 3 assume 20% efficiency and multiply (303.4x0.2=60.68)60.68>50w. It's Plausible.
@quixoticgeek Just for a point of reference:
The average solar energy around the globe is 135W/h &m².
OFC that assumes nighttime and also uniform energy output, which isn't at higher lattitudes, so 270W/m² & h is the global average at daytime and >540W is closer to a sunny day.
So yeah, that number is well within the cards.
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