Lots of people talking about buying solar panels.
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@annantidote @edavies @disorderlyf you're in Germany? Goto IKEA. No really. You can get plugging balcony solar installs from IKEA. I believe even Lidl/Aldi offer something similar. Max is 800w. So you're not going full solar independence, but it can offset some usage.
Ikea begins offering balcony solar kits
Swedish furniture retailer Ikea is selling plug-in solar kits in Germany, with storage-inclusive systems starting at €1,229 ($1,425) and reaching €2,800 for versions featuring four 520 W panels. The kits are designed for residential self-consumption and vary by capacity and configuration.
pv magazine International (www.pv-magazine.com)
@quixoticgeek @annantidote @edavies British Columbia, Canada. There's an Ikea either in or around Vancouver, I forget where, but it's close enough to me that getting things shipped from there is trivial.
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@quixoticgeek @annantidote @edavies British Columbia, Canada. There's an Ikea either in or around Vancouver, I forget where, but it's close enough to me that getting things shipped from there is trivial.
@disorderlyf @quixoticgeek @annantidote @edavies
The regulations for "balcony solar" in Canada might be different to Germany.
Plug-in balcony solar panels could mean cheaper power. But Canada needs to get on board first | CBC News
How would you like to lower your electricity bill and help power your home using an abundant renewable energy source — the sun? There is an affordable, do-it-yourself solution for people who own houses, apartment renters and condo dwellers, that doesn't cost buckets of money or require any sort of tedious installation. But, it's not widely available or permitted in Canada yet.
CBC (www.cbc.ca)
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@quixoticgeek that's really cool! thanks for the info. as I mentioned in a different response, i thought efficiency was way higher, but the cool part is we have a lot of margin for improvement
Depends.
The theoretical maximum efficiency for a single layer silicon solar cell is about 32%. So getting a 23-24% efficiency isn't bad.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shockley%E2%80%93Queisser_limit
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@disorderlyf @quixoticgeek @annantidote @edavies
The regulations for "balcony solar" in Canada might be different to Germany.
Plug-in balcony solar panels could mean cheaper power. But Canada needs to get on board first | CBC News
How would you like to lower your electricity bill and help power your home using an abundant renewable energy source — the sun? There is an affordable, do-it-yourself solution for people who own houses, apartment renters and condo dwellers, that doesn't cost buckets of money or require any sort of tedious installation. But, it's not widely available or permitted in Canada yet.
CBC (www.cbc.ca)
@billiglarper @quixoticgeek @annantidote @edavies Basically, what I want to do is instead of it hanging out from the window, I want it to be affixed to the window from the inside and have the panel directly plugged into what I've seen referred to as a "solid state generator". My understanding is I don't need anything other than permission from my landlord and I've already floated the idea by them and their response was more or less as long as I don't affix it with anything that would damage the windowsill, like nails.
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@billiglarper @quixoticgeek @annantidote @edavies Basically, what I want to do is instead of it hanging out from the window, I want it to be affixed to the window from the inside and have the panel directly plugged into what I've seen referred to as a "solid state generator". My understanding is I don't need anything other than permission from my landlord and I've already floated the idea by them and their response was more or less as long as I don't affix it with anything that would damage the windowsill, like nails.
@disorderlyf @billiglarper @annantidote @edavies Inside a window, assume 50% losses over the rated max power of the panel.
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@disorderlyf @billiglarper @annantidote @edavies Inside a window, assume 50% losses over the rated max power of the panel.
@quixoticgeek @billiglarper @annantidote @edavies It's sounding like until solar balconies are more of a thing here, it's not useful to me for more than a backup source of power in an emergency.
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@quixoticgeek Are you saying solar panel manufacturers are underreporting the max wattage of their panels? Because when I read the first part of this, I assumed you meant the inverse
@disorderlyf probably this panel is just less than 20% efficient (300 watts is power of the sun on that area)
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@BoydStephenSmithJr @quixoticgeek That's the approximate peak illumination at the peak of the day. 9am-3pm have reasonable illumination but most commercial panels have efficiencies in the low 20 percent it's a reasonable way of telling if they're bullshitting. You probably won't get that much because of the effect of heat on efficiency mind you.
@ariaflame @BoydStephenSmithJr @quixoticgeek
Ireland
We get close to rated o/p on a sunny day May to August, peak in June / July.December and Jan you need a smart meter, at least 15 kWH of batteries and charge at night. About 1/20th output then.
I might get 35 to 50W from a pair of 100W transportable panels on a good March / April day 10 am to 3 pm.
The main panels are all "200 W". We can see the W/sq m on our weather station and that is an accurate guide if the batteries are not full.
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@vgarzareyna cos commercial solar panel efficiency is about 20%. Some manufacturers claim closer to 25%, but they typically lose some of that efficiency in the first few weeks of operation. As a ballpark for judging if a panel is too good to be true. 20% works and makes for easy maths.
@quixoticgeek @vgarzareyna
I doubt any single sides panel at summer temps is more than 22%. The 19% to 21% is realistic.There are double sided panels (no opaque back) which can make it seem like more than 21%,
It's physics. Note voltage is much higher if bright & -20 °C and batteries charged. Do the sum and make sure the MPPT doesn't have over voltage! Voltage drops with load and rising temperature.
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Lots of people talking about buying solar panels. Alas if you look online there's a lot of retailers with all sorts of panels for sale, not all of which are honest. Want an easy way to check if the listed power output is plausible?
Example using a 50w panel listed on Amazon. It's 370x820mm.
Step 1 calculate the area in square meters. (0.37*0.82=0.3034)
Step 2 multiply by 1000w. (0.3034*1000=303.4)
Step 3 assume 20% efficiency and multiply (303.4x0.2=60.68)60.68>50w. It's Plausible.
another way of saying this
there are about 200W/square meterwhich for those of us with rudimentary math, is a lot cleaner expression ??
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another way of saying this
there are about 200W/square meterwhich for those of us with rudimentary math, is a lot cleaner expression ??
@failedLyndonLaRouchite yep. But if I jump to that, someone will moan.
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@failedLyndonLaRouchite yep. But if I jump to that, someone will moan.
oh god, that is so true . .
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@quixoticgeek @billiglarper @annantidote @edavies It's sounding like until solar balconies are more of a thing here, it's not useful to me for more than a backup source of power in an emergency.
@disorderlyf @quixoticgeek @billiglarper @annantidote @edavies
Ours is actually a Solar and grid charged UPS.
We run all the core stuff, 3x freezers, big fridge, server, WAN/LAN/Satellite, PCs etc 24x7 off it. No feed to grid, so no cert or smart meter. We have a dumb meter & pay cash when the bill arrives.
In emergency we can swap plug socket and finish wash cycle of clothes or dishes, or even add airfry/uWave.
Halved the bill.
Save more in winter if smart meter by charge at night for daytime. -
Lots of people talking about buying solar panels. Alas if you look online there's a lot of retailers with all sorts of panels for sale, not all of which are honest. Want an easy way to check if the listed power output is plausible?
Example using a 50w panel listed on Amazon. It's 370x820mm.
Step 1 calculate the area in square meters. (0.37*0.82=0.3034)
Step 2 multiply by 1000w. (0.3034*1000=303.4)
Step 3 assume 20% efficiency and multiply (303.4x0.2=60.68)60.68>50w. It's Plausible.
@quixoticgeek Great post. Distilling info into self-contained useful advice is a rare skill.
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Depends.
The theoretical maximum efficiency for a single layer silicon solar cell is about 32%. So getting a 23-24% efficiency isn't bad.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shockley%E2%80%93Queisser_limit
@billiglarper @quixoticgeek :0 i guess there's not that much room for improvement then
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@billiglarper @quixoticgeek :0 i guess there's not that much room for improvement then
At least for consumers for now.
There's bifacial cells, where the backside also collects sunlight. But positioning matters a lot.
https://www.energysage.com/solar/bifacial-solar-panels-what-you-need-to-know/It's possible to combine multiple layers to increase output (multi-junction cells). 32% efficiency is a thing. But this is DAMN expensive.
https://www.azurspace.com/en/products/space-products/There's research on adding hybrid-organic (Perovskite) or organic solar cell layers. Would be huge if it works.
https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20251015-perovskite-the-wonder-material-that-could-transform-solar-energy -
At least for consumers for now.
There's bifacial cells, where the backside also collects sunlight. But positioning matters a lot.
https://www.energysage.com/solar/bifacial-solar-panels-what-you-need-to-know/It's possible to combine multiple layers to increase output (multi-junction cells). 32% efficiency is a thing. But this is DAMN expensive.
https://www.azurspace.com/en/products/space-products/There's research on adding hybrid-organic (Perovskite) or organic solar cell layers. Would be huge if it works.
https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20251015-perovskite-the-wonder-material-that-could-transform-solar-energy@billiglarper @vgarzareyna all true. But if you're getting your advice on solar panel rating plausibility, you're not getting any of those, so the basics check stands. But yes. There are some edge cases.
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@billiglarper @vgarzareyna all true. But if you're getting your advice on solar panel rating plausibility, you're not getting any of those, so the basics check stands. But yes. There are some edge cases.
@quixoticgeek @billiglarper @vgarzareyna And it’s not fedi without pedantry!
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@billiglarper @vgarzareyna all true. But if you're getting your advice on solar panel rating plausibility, you're not getting any of those, so the basics check stands. But yes. There are some edge cases.
Oh, absolutely. ~23% it will be for quite some time.
Just trying to be positive by pointing out that this it's not a hard limit and technological innovation is possible.
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@billiglarper @quixoticgeek :0 i guess there's not that much room for improvement then
@vgarzareyna @billiglarper @quixoticgeek there isn't, but IMO the language of efficiency is a bit misleading when it comes to solar panels because we're using to thinking low efficiency = bad and needs fixing. That's true for fossil fuel technologies, where the energy put into the system is in a form that is rare, expensive and dangerous, so it matters a lot what percentage of that energy in is actually going to come out as useful work.
Photons from the sky are ludicrously plentiful and free, so the trajectory of solar panel manufacture has generally been to not worry too much about pushing the limits on efficiency, and work instead on making them cheaper and cheaper. And it's worked, solar is now the world's cheapest energy source! The solar panels we already know how to make are GREAT, the improvement needed is nearly all in, well, political will. (And battery storage/grid stability, but that's just political will in a trenchcoat.)
