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  3. Cis people sometimes demand #trans people rigourously define what "gender" means and explain what drives us to embody a gender other than the one assigned to us at birth.

Cis people sometimes demand #trans people rigourously define what "gender" means and explain what drives us to embody a gender other than the one assigned to us at birth.

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  • moriel@chaosfem.twM moriel@chaosfem.tw

    @Tattie

    i am bookmarking this thread. This is precisely on target. Very well said!

    tattie@eldritch.cafeT This user is from outside of this forum
    tattie@eldritch.cafeT This user is from outside of this forum
    tattie@eldritch.cafe
    wrote last edited by
    #14

    @moriel thank you!

    1 Reply Last reply
    0
    • tattie@eldritch.cafeT tattie@eldritch.cafe

      Cis people sometimes demand #trans people rigourously define what "gender" means and explain what drives us to embody a gender other than the one assigned to us at birth. If we can't do that, they say, how can they believe us?

      But trans people shouldn't have to be philosophers and psychologists all wrapped up into one to have our experiences believed. 1/

      ruthoday2@chaosfem.twR This user is from outside of this forum
      ruthoday2@chaosfem.twR This user is from outside of this forum
      ruthoday2@chaosfem.tw
      wrote last edited by
      #15

      @Tattie

      Thank you for expressing this, it describes (more clearly than I could) a lot of my own experiences..

      #BoostFaveBookmarkTrifecta

      tattie@eldritch.cafeT 1 Reply Last reply
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      • tattie@eldritch.cafeT tattie@eldritch.cafe

        That's it. That's what I've got. Just my experience.

        No grand theory that explains everything, no intellectual justification. I can't explain this any more than you can.

        But my experience is real. And I cannot stand by if you're going to "debate" the reality of it.

        I exist. I'm right here. Look at me.
        Fin/

        jrdepriest@infosec.exchangeJ This user is from outside of this forum
        jrdepriest@infosec.exchangeJ This user is from outside of this forum
        jrdepriest@infosec.exchange
        wrote last edited by
        #16

        @Tattie in fact, I'm sharing a Masto Reader link to this thread on my woke family Signal chat so they can understand what dysphoria is like since it is hard to explain and you have done so in an almost poetic way.

        jrdepriest@infosec.exchangeJ 1 Reply Last reply
        0
        • ruthoday2@chaosfem.twR ruthoday2@chaosfem.tw

          @Tattie

          Thank you for expressing this, it describes (more clearly than I could) a lot of my own experiences..

          #BoostFaveBookmarkTrifecta

          tattie@eldritch.cafeT This user is from outside of this forum
          tattie@eldritch.cafeT This user is from outside of this forum
          tattie@eldritch.cafe
          wrote last edited by
          #17

          @RuthODay2 I am honoured by the trifecta!

          1 Reply Last reply
          0
          • tattie@eldritch.cafeT tattie@eldritch.cafe

            That's it. That's what I've got. Just my experience.

            No grand theory that explains everything, no intellectual justification. I can't explain this any more than you can.

            But my experience is real. And I cannot stand by if you're going to "debate" the reality of it.

            I exist. I'm right here. Look at me.
            Fin/

            adele@social.treehouse.systemsA This user is from outside of this forum
            adele@social.treehouse.systemsA This user is from outside of this forum
            adele@social.treehouse.systems
            wrote last edited by
            #18

            @Tattie elegantly said and true.

            1 Reply Last reply
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            • tattie@eldritch.cafeT tattie@eldritch.cafe

              Cis people sometimes demand #trans people rigourously define what "gender" means and explain what drives us to embody a gender other than the one assigned to us at birth. If we can't do that, they say, how can they believe us?

              But trans people shouldn't have to be philosophers and psychologists all wrapped up into one to have our experiences believed. 1/

              jesstheunstill@infosec.exchangeJ This user is from outside of this forum
              jesstheunstill@infosec.exchangeJ This user is from outside of this forum
              jesstheunstill@infosec.exchange
              wrote last edited by
              #19

              @Tattie I think even more fundamentally - there's been entire books and a million blogs of personal narratives, lots of them. Medical research studies, medical associations, entire international interdisciplinary organizations of people who are the world experts in gender diversity. They all say trans people are real, valid, and who they say they are. If someone isn't willing to accept those piles of evidence, then challenging an individual trans person is just hunting for some gotcha.

              1 Reply Last reply
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              • jrdepriest@infosec.exchangeJ jrdepriest@infosec.exchange

                @Tattie in fact, I'm sharing a Masto Reader link to this thread on my woke family Signal chat so they can understand what dysphoria is like since it is hard to explain and you have done so in an almost poetic way.

                jrdepriest@infosec.exchangeJ This user is from outside of this forum
                jrdepriest@infosec.exchangeJ This user is from outside of this forum
                jrdepriest@infosec.exchange
                wrote last edited by
                #20

                @Tattie cousin told me, after reading it, that her 25 year old AMAB child thinks he might be transgender. They are currently dating a trans woman, too. Thank you for helping to open up that dialogue.

                tattie@eldritch.cafeT 1 Reply Last reply
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                • tattie@eldritch.cafeT tattie@eldritch.cafe

                  Cis people sometimes demand #trans people rigourously define what "gender" means and explain what drives us to embody a gender other than the one assigned to us at birth. If we can't do that, they say, how can they believe us?

                  But trans people shouldn't have to be philosophers and psychologists all wrapped up into one to have our experiences believed. 1/

                  burnoutqueen@todon.nlB This user is from outside of this forum
                  burnoutqueen@todon.nlB This user is from outside of this forum
                  burnoutqueen@todon.nl
                  wrote last edited by
                  #21

                  @Tattie

                  I'm happier as a girl and the evidence suggests it has to do with my brain but that's all I can conclusively say

                  G 1 Reply Last reply
                  0
                  • jrdepriest@infosec.exchangeJ jrdepriest@infosec.exchange

                    @Tattie cousin told me, after reading it, that her 25 year old AMAB child thinks he might be transgender. They are currently dating a trans woman, too. Thank you for helping to open up that dialogue.

                    tattie@eldritch.cafeT This user is from outside of this forum
                    tattie@eldritch.cafeT This user is from outside of this forum
                    tattie@eldritch.cafe
                    wrote last edited by
                    #22

                    @jrdepriest oh my gosh, I'm so happy that I could be part of that!

                    1 Reply Last reply
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                    • tattie@eldritch.cafeT tattie@eldritch.cafe

                      Cis people sometimes demand #trans people rigourously define what "gender" means and explain what drives us to embody a gender other than the one assigned to us at birth. If we can't do that, they say, how can they believe us?

                      But trans people shouldn't have to be philosophers and psychologists all wrapped up into one to have our experiences believed. 1/

                      forestine@sunny.gardenF This user is from outside of this forum
                      forestine@sunny.gardenF This user is from outside of this forum
                      forestine@sunny.garden
                      wrote last edited by
                      #23

                      @Tattie also a cis person who has never interrogated their gender will get real defensive if you try and flip the question on them. they'll say "i just am" or something

                      jaxvent@lgbtqia.spaceJ 1 Reply Last reply
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                      • forestine@sunny.gardenF forestine@sunny.garden

                        @Tattie also a cis person who has never interrogated their gender will get real defensive if you try and flip the question on them. they'll say "i just am" or something

                        jaxvent@lgbtqia.spaceJ This user is from outside of this forum
                        jaxvent@lgbtqia.spaceJ This user is from outside of this forum
                        jaxvent@lgbtqia.space
                        wrote last edited by
                        #24

                        @forestine @Tattie

                        Yep, funny that πŸ˜…

                        I'm CIS and have never been able to explain why I am CIS, why I am happy with my gender matching my biological sex. I just am. And I don't believe any CIS person really could. So why on earth should any trans person be expected to?

                        forestine@sunny.gardenF 1 Reply Last reply
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                        • jaxvent@lgbtqia.spaceJ jaxvent@lgbtqia.space

                          @forestine @Tattie

                          Yep, funny that πŸ˜…

                          I'm CIS and have never been able to explain why I am CIS, why I am happy with my gender matching my biological sex. I just am. And I don't believe any CIS person really could. So why on earth should any trans person be expected to?

                          forestine@sunny.gardenF This user is from outside of this forum
                          forestine@sunny.gardenF This user is from outside of this forum
                          forestine@sunny.garden
                          wrote last edited by
                          #25

                          @JaxVent @Tattie yes, great points.

                          btw in case you weren't aware, cis is not an acronym for anything, but is latin, and doesn't need to be capitalised

                          jaxvent@lgbtqia.spaceJ 1 Reply Last reply
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                          • tattie@eldritch.cafeT tattie@eldritch.cafe

                            That's it. That's what I've got. Just my experience.

                            No grand theory that explains everything, no intellectual justification. I can't explain this any more than you can.

                            But my experience is real. And I cannot stand by if you're going to "debate" the reality of it.

                            I exist. I'm right here. Look at me.
                            Fin/

                            williampietri@sfba.socialW This user is from outside of this forum
                            williampietri@sfba.socialW This user is from outside of this forum
                            williampietri@sfba.social
                            wrote last edited by
                            #26

                            @Tattie Thanks! I appreciate you sharing this. It's lovely. Congrats on finding ways to feel like you.

                            I also think it's wild that cis people are expecting you to explain gender to them. My experience asking cis people to explain this whole gender thing is that either they flop around like a fish on a riverbank or they fall back on PLUTO IS A PLANET repetition of too-simple things that they learned when they were 7 and haven't thought about since.

                            1 Reply Last reply
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                            • forestine@sunny.gardenF forestine@sunny.garden

                              @JaxVent @Tattie yes, great points.

                              btw in case you weren't aware, cis is not an acronym for anything, but is latin, and doesn't need to be capitalised

                              jaxvent@lgbtqia.spaceJ This user is from outside of this forum
                              jaxvent@lgbtqia.spaceJ This user is from outside of this forum
                              jaxvent@lgbtqia.space
                              wrote last edited by
                              #27

                              @forestine @Tattie

                              I knew that, so don't know why I capitalise it πŸ€” Thanks for the reminder πŸ™‚

                              anhedonie@chaosfem.twA 1 Reply Last reply
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                              • jaxvent@lgbtqia.spaceJ jaxvent@lgbtqia.space

                                @forestine @Tattie

                                I knew that, so don't know why I capitalise it πŸ€” Thanks for the reminder πŸ™‚

                                anhedonie@chaosfem.twA This user is from outside of this forum
                                anhedonie@chaosfem.twA This user is from outside of this forum
                                anhedonie@chaosfem.tw
                                wrote last edited by
                                #28

                                @JaxVent @forestine @Tattie autocorrect uppercases it automatically for me every time and it's so annoying

                                1 Reply Last reply
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                                • tattie@eldritch.cafeT tattie@eldritch.cafe

                                  That's it. That's what I've got. Just my experience.

                                  No grand theory that explains everything, no intellectual justification. I can't explain this any more than you can.

                                  But my experience is real. And I cannot stand by if you're going to "debate" the reality of it.

                                  I exist. I'm right here. Look at me.
                                  Fin/

                                  xorlou@lgbtqia.spaceX This user is from outside of this forum
                                  xorlou@lgbtqia.spaceX This user is from outside of this forum
                                  xorlou@lgbtqia.space
                                  wrote last edited by
                                  #29

                                  @Tattie thanks for writing this, it very much mirrors my own experience. I tried so hard to avoid transitioning. I lived as a femme out gay man for over a decade. I'm still just at the early stages and still terrified, but I've reached the end of the road of alternative options. We shouldn't have to rigorously justify our own existence, it's just unreasonable to expect this. There probably isn't a rational explanation for being trans, it's just life and it unfolds the way it does. Sending all my love πŸ’•

                                  tattie@eldritch.cafeT 1 Reply Last reply
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                                  • xorlou@lgbtqia.spaceX xorlou@lgbtqia.space

                                    @Tattie thanks for writing this, it very much mirrors my own experience. I tried so hard to avoid transitioning. I lived as a femme out gay man for over a decade. I'm still just at the early stages and still terrified, but I've reached the end of the road of alternative options. We shouldn't have to rigorously justify our own existence, it's just unreasonable to expect this. There probably isn't a rational explanation for being trans, it's just life and it unfolds the way it does. Sending all my love πŸ’•

                                    tattie@eldritch.cafeT This user is from outside of this forum
                                    tattie@eldritch.cafeT This user is from outside of this forum
                                    tattie@eldritch.cafe
                                    wrote last edited by
                                    #30

                                    @xorlou well done on reaching this point, it's not easy! Hope transition is bringing you joy!

                                    xorlou@lgbtqia.spaceX 1 Reply Last reply
                                    0
                                    • tattie@eldritch.cafeT tattie@eldritch.cafe

                                      That's it. That's what I've got. Just my experience.

                                      No grand theory that explains everything, no intellectual justification. I can't explain this any more than you can.

                                      But my experience is real. And I cannot stand by if you're going to "debate" the reality of it.

                                      I exist. I'm right here. Look at me.
                                      Fin/

                                      brooke@bikeshed.vibber.netB This user is from outside of this forum
                                      brooke@bikeshed.vibber.netB This user is from outside of this forum
                                      brooke@bikeshed.vibber.net
                                      wrote last edited by
                                      #31

                                      @Tattie ❀ ❀ ❀

                                      1 Reply Last reply
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                                      • tattie@eldritch.cafeT tattie@eldritch.cafe

                                        Cis people sometimes demand #trans people rigourously define what "gender" means and explain what drives us to embody a gender other than the one assigned to us at birth. If we can't do that, they say, how can they believe us?

                                        But trans people shouldn't have to be philosophers and psychologists all wrapped up into one to have our experiences believed. 1/

                                        eruonna@lgbtqia.spaceE This user is from outside of this forum
                                        eruonna@lgbtqia.spaceE This user is from outside of this forum
                                        eruonna@lgbtqia.space
                                        wrote last edited by
                                        #32

                                        @Tattie
                                        And we shouldn't have to be endocrinologists to get proper health care or lawyers to get our documents changed...

                                        tattie@eldritch.cafeT 1 Reply Last reply
                                        0
                                        • eruonna@lgbtqia.spaceE eruonna@lgbtqia.space

                                          @Tattie
                                          And we shouldn't have to be endocrinologists to get proper health care or lawyers to get our documents changed...

                                          tattie@eldritch.cafeT This user is from outside of this forum
                                          tattie@eldritch.cafeT This user is from outside of this forum
                                          tattie@eldritch.cafe
                                          wrote last edited by
                                          #33

                                          @eruonna or ethicists, or sports scientists, or fashionistas, or anthropologists, or conflict mediators, or counsellors (oh wait)

                                          1 Reply Last reply
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