Oh honey, no one is telling children they're trans. Trust me.
-
No one told me I was trans. I wish someone had told me when I was young enough for it to have mattered. And the message I got from society certainly wasn't, "You might possibly be trans." It was, "Yes, there are a few trans people and they are freaks and jokes and you can't possibly be trans."
I hope that might have improved a little. I think some kids get a more balanced message, like, "There are trans people and that's okay." (That's slightly sarcastic.) Hell, "Trans people are freaks and jokes," is still an improvement over, "There are no trans people."
But sweet fuck, statistically speaking, no one is telling kids, "You are trans." No one is even telling them, "You might be trans." That's a made-up fear. But again, the people who made it up know that.
@YouShallNotPass what I would give to have had someone tell me I was trans.
The time I could have had... The love I could have shown myself...
-
@YouShallNotPass This, so much this.
My first exposure to transness was characters in Bollywood movies who were child kidnappers or just bad/villainous people, and that really fucked up my worldview for quite some time.
@properlypurple
Yeah, mine was trans people on daytime talk shows who were all made out to be freaks. Society doesn't like us. I'm sorry you had to go through that
️ -
@YouShallNotPass what I would give to have had someone tell me I was trans.
The time I could have had... The love I could have shown myself...
@grace
Yes. Very much this. But I hope you're able to show yourself a little love now️ -
Oh yeah. When i as growing up trans people were only ever trotted out on daytime talk shows as freaks to be laughed at. i remember the information desert that kept me from knowing what i was until i was 19
@moriel
Me too. That and Ace Ventura. Ugh. -
@YouShallNotPass And of course most of the same people also want it not to be ok to be even a little gender nonconforming without being trans, so what they're ultimately pushing for is no individuality and rigid conformity to assigned roles in the farce that is the patriarchy.
@PedestrianError
Let's be honest, a lot of people who are pushing this want it not to be okay to be anything but a cishet white man. Yes, maybe cishet white women have to exist for them, but they still want those women to be not okay. -
@grace
Yes. Very much this. But I hope you're able to show yourself a little love now️@YouShallNotPass thanks! It is a journey but I'm getting there.
-
@YouShallNotPass what I would give to have had someone tell me I was trans.
The time I could have had... The love I could have shown myself...
@grace @YouShallNotPass I'm going through this now at 57, exploring and realizing I might be/probably am trans. There were so many clues when I was, say, 6 to 14, that are coming back to mind.
-
@grace @YouShallNotPass I'm going through this now at 57, exploring and realizing I might be/probably am trans. There were so many clues when I was, say, 6 to 14, that are coming back to mind.
@naga @YouShallNotPass same!!
I'm 43 and just getting started. I didn't realize that most men didn't feel like a stranger around men or that you were just trapped in a meat suit.
-
@naga @YouShallNotPass same!!
I'm 43 and just getting started. I didn't realize that most men didn't feel like a stranger around men or that you were just trapped in a meat suit.
-
@naga @YouShallNotPass same!!
I'm 43 and just getting started. I didn't realize that most men didn't feel like a stranger around men or that you were just trapped in a meat suit.
@grace @YouShallNotPass I remember first grade and wishing I were a girl because I didn't like the way boys acted and didn't want to have to hang out with them or conform to the expectations of how boys act.
-
@grace @YouShallNotPass I remember first grade and wishing I were a girl because I didn't like the way boys acted and didn't want to have to hang out with them or conform to the expectations of how boys act.
@grace @YouShallNotPass And it still took another 50 years ... the last few of which I'd already taken to wearing skirts.
-
Oh honey, no one is telling children they're trans. Trust me. Everyone is telling children that they're cis, repeatedly, hard, insistently, like a chorus of total negation. If a kid manages to figure out that they're trans in spite of every fucking thing in the world telling them they aren't trans, it wasn't because someone told them they were trans. The most they likely ever heard, and it's not all that likely, is that it's okay to be trans.
But you know that already. You don't want anyone to stop telling children they're trans, because no one does that. What you want is for it not to be okay to be trans.
-
R relay@relay.publicsquare.global shared this topicR relay@relay.an.exchange shared this topic
-
@Saorsa
So your thesis is that we don't develop genders until we hit puberty? -
@Saorsa
So your thesis is that we don't develop genders until we hit puberty?That children should be left to be children until a time where it is appropriate to discuss. Gender expression doesn't cross the minds of my children and when prompted voluntarily, it should be up to the parent on how to address the matter with them.
I'm of the opinion that they don't need to know about such stuff until an age where they can somewhat process what that means. By allowing a child to freely express themselves without pushing them in any particular direction, they can discover for themselves what that means and know how to articulate it by the time they reach that age.
@YouShallNotPass@chaosfem.tw -
That children should be left to be children until a time where it is appropriate to discuss. Gender expression doesn't cross the minds of my children and when prompted voluntarily, it should be up to the parent on how to address the matter with them.
I'm of the opinion that they don't need to know about such stuff until an age where they can somewhat process what that means. By allowing a child to freely express themselves without pushing them in any particular direction, they can discover for themselves what that means and know how to articulate it by the time they reach that age.
@YouShallNotPass@chaosfem.tw@Saorsa
I have bad news for you: Gender very much crosses your children's minds. Children are perfectly capable of processing what gender means. Puberty is usually too late to start worrying about gender because by then the damage has been done.Society is already telling all children that they're cis. This currently isn't up to the parents. However, if we were to leave it up to the parents, millions of children would be abused by parents who want to force cis-ness on their children.
Statistically, no one is telling your kids or any other kids that they're trans. That's very much not true in the other direction. I don't want to tell your children or any children that they're trans. That's up to them to decide. I just want to give them information and options before puberty removes some if not all of those options. This is not currently being done, in part due to people saying that children should be free to make their own choices and not bothered with information they can't process.
Age-gating this stuff is a giant red flag. If you don't intend to wave a giant red flag, you should reconsider your statements. If you do intend to wave a giant red flag, I guess I'm grateful you gave me the opportunity to refute your bigotry, but, a word to the wise, that gratitude will only go so far. You have a choice to make.
-
That children should be left to be children until a time where it is appropriate to discuss. Gender expression doesn't cross the minds of my children and when prompted voluntarily, it should be up to the parent on how to address the matter with them.
I'm of the opinion that they don't need to know about such stuff until an age where they can somewhat process what that means. By allowing a child to freely express themselves without pushing them in any particular direction, they can discover for themselves what that means and know how to articulate it by the time they reach that age.
@YouShallNotPass@chaosfem.tw@Saorsa Did you grow up as a human child? Surely you can remember being one? Gender expression is EVERYTHING on the playground. Kids notice they're not like the others when they're single-digit years old, and they're shamed relentlessly for it.
I'm cis, but it was a similar experience being neurodivergent and not knowing. Without the vocabulary to explain why I was different, all I had was shame, to the point of attempting suicide at 11.
Kids don't suddenly become people at 18. They know.
-
@Saorsa Did you grow up as a human child? Surely you can remember being one? Gender expression is EVERYTHING on the playground. Kids notice they're not like the others when they're single-digit years old, and they're shamed relentlessly for it.
I'm cis, but it was a similar experience being neurodivergent and not knowing. Without the vocabulary to explain why I was different, all I had was shame, to the point of attempting suicide at 11.
Kids don't suddenly become people at 18. They know.
They know, yes but is another matter entirely to provide unsolicited guidance when at that age. That is why I've made sure to outline that if the child were to first approach their parents about it unprompted, then navigating the matter should be left to their own discretion.
So long as you are encouraging them to freely express themselves without telling them they're this or that, then I'm fine with slight exposure at younger ages under the correct circumstances. Otherwise, I believe it should be left until puberty where for most people those aspects start to take centre stage as they transition into adolescence.
*Edited.
@earthtoneone@mstdn.social @RandamuMaki@mstdn.social @YouShallNotPass@chaosfem.tw -
They know, yes but is another matter entirely to provide unsolicited guidance when at that age. That is why I've made sure to outline that if the child were to first approach their parents about it unprompted, then navigating the matter should be left to their own discretion.
So long as you are encouraging them to freely express themselves without telling them they're this or that, then I'm fine with slight exposure at younger ages under the correct circumstances. Otherwise, I believe it should be left until puberty where for most people those aspects start to take centre stage as they transition into adolescence.
*Edited.
@earthtoneone@mstdn.social @RandamuMaki@mstdn.social @YouShallNotPass@chaosfem.tw@Saorsa
How are they going to solicit advice when they don't know they need it? We don't expect children to come to their parents and ask to be taught math. And in this case, it's more like they're being taught that math is bad and wrong by everyone, then expecting them to have the wherewithal to ask people about it who may be the very ones teaching them that math is bad and wrong.Gender doesn't begin at puberty. Full stop. No backsies. Waiting until puberty to teach children about gender is akin to waiting until puberty to teach them about morality or sexuality. By that point, it's usually too late.
And again, the age-gating. It's not good. I'm pretty sure this is the end of any useful interaction I can have with you. You seem dead-set on repeating the same incorrect points over and over again and you don't address any of the concerns one might have with them. I fear for your kids and I fear for you.
-
@Saorsa
How are they going to solicit advice when they don't know they need it? We don't expect children to come to their parents and ask to be taught math. And in this case, it's more like they're being taught that math is bad and wrong by everyone, then expecting them to have the wherewithal to ask people about it who may be the very ones teaching them that math is bad and wrong.Gender doesn't begin at puberty. Full stop. No backsies. Waiting until puberty to teach children about gender is akin to waiting until puberty to teach them about morality or sexuality. By that point, it's usually too late.
And again, the age-gating. It's not good. I'm pretty sure this is the end of any useful interaction I can have with you. You seem dead-set on repeating the same incorrect points over and over again and you don't address any of the concerns one might have with them. I fear for your kids and I fear for you.
They'll be in relatively good hands under the guardianship of a libertarian. I haven't said that children under no circumstances should be taught about gender until they hit puberty. I simply believe that it is place of the parents to decide whether to disclose that information and the degree to which they feel comfortable discussing it with their children with respect to still developing cognition.
I simply believe that it is not our place or that of the education system to be educating children at length on gender identity and sexual expression before puberty. My reasoning for the decision has not been informed by blind hatred or intolerance contrary to your previous assertion but rather the myriad of research available in the field of paediatric psychology concerning the cognition of minors at various stages of development. There is a reason after all why minors are considered a vulnerable demographic alongside the geriatric and psychologically impaired.
*Edited.
@earthtoneone@mstdn.social @RandamuMaki@mstdn.social @YouShallNotPass@chaosfem.tw -
They'll be in relatively good hands under the guardianship of a libertarian. I haven't said that children under no circumstances should be taught about gender until they hit puberty. I simply believe that it is place of the parents to decide whether to disclose that information and the degree to which they feel comfortable discussing it with their children with respect to still developing cognition.
I simply believe that it is not our place or that of the education system to be educating children at length on gender identity and sexual expression before puberty. My reasoning for the decision has not been informed by blind hatred or intolerance contrary to your previous assertion but rather the myriad of research available in the field of paediatric psychology concerning the cognition of minors at various stages of development. There is a reason after all why minors are considered a vulnerable demographic alongside the geriatric and psychologically impaired.
*Edited.
@earthtoneone@mstdn.social @RandamuMaki@mstdn.social @YouShallNotPass@chaosfem.tw@Saorsa
You're a libertarian. How cute. Yes, that's insulting, but you're a libertarian so you must be used to it. Avaunt ye and begone from my sight.
