to be absolutely clear: alpine is *not* switching to systemd or implementing a 'systemd compatibility layer'.
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to be absolutely clear: alpine is *not* switching to systemd or implementing a 'systemd compatibility layer'.
https://www.linuxjournal.com/content/alpine-linux-experiments-systemd-compatibility-while-keeping-its-lightweight-identity is literally AI slop
@ariadne Shocking title plus AI slop is a recipe for clicks nowadays. Its just tabloids for the internet.
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@techokami @neal @ariadne Either that, or this new fellow is doing a Jordan Breeding on a defunct site. Maybe somewhere in the middle.
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a lightweight operating system built from scratch with one goal in mind — giving old and low-resource computers a new lease on life
Loss32 began as a personal project by a group of open-source enthusiasts frustrated with how quickly modern software has moved past older machines.
The name Loss32 stems from its focus on “losing” unnecessary bloat — keeping only what’s essential — and the fact that it targets 32-bit and low-resource systems that many other distros are abandoning.
is this entire thing an AI hallucination? it's genuinely unbelievably bad, there's basically no relation whatsoever to anything I wrote on loss32.org
@moses_izumi @hikari I see "George" has done it again!
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@ariadne Woho! Thanks for considering using udev in Alpine! It was the thing which forced me to return to Arch, while I would prefer to use Alpine. I've tried to use mdev + libudev-zero but it had a lot of quirks, so I switched to eudev but it had problems with mounting encrypted USB drives and some other quirks, so I tried to just use mount, but while on (some?) BSDs you can allow mount without root when user have permissions for both a device and a mount point, Linux does not.
Almost everything depends on libudev…
@aelspire Alpine already uses a udev implementation, eudev which is basically compatible with libudev.
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@aelspire Alpine already uses a udev implementation, eudev which is basically compatible with libudev.
@ariadne Yes, I'm aware of it and tried to use it, but not everything is working. In my case mounting LUKS-encrypted USB drive from Thunar sidebar was not working, and I have almost all my USB drives encrypted. I also remember some quirks with my graphic tablet (Wacom Bamboo) but I'm not sure if those were eudev fault.
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@ariadne Yeah, it's probably going to happen with something particularly dumb too. I can already see it coming...
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R relay@relay.an.exchange shared this topic
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@ariadne linuxjournal is slop too now?
@hexaheximal@mstdn.social @ariadne@treehouse.systems banned by lobste.rs 9 months ago so not even a recent thing
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eudev exists, at least today, primarily because there's a vocal subset of people who get extremely angry if a package name or file on disk includes the word "systemd" in it, and will not consent to running a udev implementation if any internal filename happens to be /usr/lib/systemd
These people literally configure their package manager to silently delete any files from ANY package matching the glob `*systemd*`. Prank tip: write a program including "systemdetails.py".
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eudev exists, at least today, primarily because there's a vocal subset of people who get extremely angry if a package name or file on disk includes the word "systemd" in it, and will not consent to running a udev implementation if any internal filename happens to be /usr/lib/systemd
These people literally configure their package manager to silently delete any files from ANY package matching the glob `*systemd*`. Prank tip: write a program including "systemdetails.py".
Also relevant, Gentoo dropped eudev a year and a half ago on the grounds that it serves no purpose given systemd-utils can install standalone udev, and eudev was unmaintained and broken and did not in fact provide the library APIs which software compiled against, due to its being unmaintained:
Nonetheless, Gentoo still proudly supports non-systemd installs.
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to be absolutely clear: alpine is *not* switching to systemd or implementing a 'systemd compatibility layer'.
https://www.linuxjournal.com/content/alpine-linux-experiments-systemd-compatibility-while-keeping-its-lightweight-identity is literally AI slop
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Also relevant, Gentoo dropped eudev a year and a half ago on the grounds that it serves no purpose given systemd-utils can install standalone udev, and eudev was unmaintained and broken and did not in fact provide the library APIs which software compiled against, due to its being unmaintained:
Nonetheless, Gentoo still proudly supports non-systemd installs.
@eschwartz @zyx @ariadne oh man maybe i should switch back to gentoo
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@eschwartz @zyx @ariadne oh man maybe i should switch back to gentoo
@eschwartz @zyx @whitequark its time to INSTALL GENTOO
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@eschwartz @zyx @whitequark its time to INSTALL GENTOO
@ariadne @eschwartz @zyx @whitequark —omg-optimized
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@eschwartz @zyx @whitequark its time to INSTALL GENTOO
@ariadne @eschwartz @zyx like it's not even about systemd, i'm using systemd right now, it's about people generally seeming to make more sensible decisions than my experience with debian as a maintainer which has left me very sour
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@ariadne @eschwartz @zyx like it's not even about systemd, i'm using systemd right now, it's about people generally seeming to make more sensible decisions than my experience with debian as a maintainer which has left me very sour
@eschwartz @zyx @whitequark I mean I don't really have an opinion on systemd. the reason I use and work on Alpine is because it is an integrated OS. systemd offers some of the same benefits for the GNU/Linux crowd and that seems like a positive for GNU/Linux...
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@eschwartz @zyx @whitequark I mean I don't really have an opinion on systemd. the reason I use and work on Alpine is because it is an integrated OS. systemd offers some of the same benefits for the GNU/Linux crowd and that seems like a positive for GNU/Linux...
@ariadne @eschwartz @zyx i think a lot of the concepts are sound, but a significant part of how it was implemented historically shows a lack of care that i wouldn't really consider acceptable in my work but switching away from it would break KDE which i like enough that it's a nonstarter
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@ariadne @eschwartz @zyx i think a lot of the concepts are sound, but a significant part of how it was implemented historically shows a lack of care that i wouldn't really consider acceptable in my work but switching away from it would break KDE which i like enough that it's a nonstarter
I'm not really sure what you mean by that... Switching away from systemd would break KDE? Shouldn't be -- KDE Plasma is packaged by alpine (no systemd option) and supported just fine on Gentoo's openrc profiles.
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I'm not really sure what you mean by that... Switching away from systemd would break KDE? Shouldn't be -- KDE Plasma is packaged by alpine (no systemd option) and supported just fine on Gentoo's openrc profiles.
@eschwartz @ariadne @zyx to be clear this isn't a deeply researched opinion, i just used to run systemd-less debian and at some point half of plasma (networkmanager, power management, etc) broke due to some consolekit related thing i eventually traced down to "i guess i need systemd now"
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I'm not really sure what you mean by that... Switching away from systemd would break KDE? Shouldn't be -- KDE Plasma is packaged by alpine (no systemd option) and supported just fine on Gentoo's openrc profiles.
@whitequark @zyx @eschwartz yes can confirm I use plasma as my daily driver on alpine.
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@whitequark @zyx @eschwartz yes can confirm I use plasma as my daily driver on alpine.
@ariadne @zyx @eschwartz does NM work?
