We went from precise web search with boolean operators to "natural language models" of AI search.
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We went from precise web search with boolean operators to "natural language models" of AI search.
You can tell nuerodivergent, Autistic, ADHD, AuDHD, etc folks created the early internet...
...and you can tell that neurotypical folks are now leading the current overlays of the internet.
We used to have very precise search mechanisms. Specific words found in web pages with boolean operators (AND, OR, NOT, etc) to filter out the web pages that contained specific words and did not contain other words.
Now, we search for web sites (or don't even search for web sites, yay abstraction layers that separate us from actual raw information) using "natural language" to try and coax out info.
Have you ever been frustrated when you use very precise and direct language to communicate a specific idea with someone who then takes those specific words and adds obscure meaning and connotations and personal fears and bias to what you said... thus completely misunderstanding you... only to then try and clarify what you said with more precise language only to have that further degrade the conversation?!
Yeah. That's the internet with AI "search" now.
They took something that worked precisely and directly and muddied it.
We've introduced the "double-empathy problem" to web search.
I'm noticing that everyone in my circles, family, and especially work that are nuerotypical LOVE LOVE LOVE the new AI search mechanisms. They'll tell me exactly what the answer they received was - regardless of whether it's right or has multiple possible and conflicting answers. They just repeat what the AI said like it was the Gospel Truth.
And they love talking to it like it was a "real person."
It certainly takes my search parameters and adds its own interpretation to which I have to clarify and correct which is then misinterpreted further...
I haven't tried vibe coding, but I can only imagine the horror.
Can you imagine vibe pentesting with Claude / Mythos?!?!?!
You know how neurodivergent folks gravitated towards IT because it was precise?
Yeah, that's gone now.
@tinker I miss Boolean web search so much…
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We went from precise web search with boolean operators to "natural language models" of AI search.
You can tell nuerodivergent, Autistic, ADHD, AuDHD, etc folks created the early internet...
...and you can tell that neurotypical folks are now leading the current overlays of the internet.
We used to have very precise search mechanisms. Specific words found in web pages with boolean operators (AND, OR, NOT, etc) to filter out the web pages that contained specific words and did not contain other words.
Now, we search for web sites (or don't even search for web sites, yay abstraction layers that separate us from actual raw information) using "natural language" to try and coax out info.
Have you ever been frustrated when you use very precise and direct language to communicate a specific idea with someone who then takes those specific words and adds obscure meaning and connotations and personal fears and bias to what you said... thus completely misunderstanding you... only to then try and clarify what you said with more precise language only to have that further degrade the conversation?!
Yeah. That's the internet with AI "search" now.
They took something that worked precisely and directly and muddied it.
We've introduced the "double-empathy problem" to web search.
I'm noticing that everyone in my circles, family, and especially work that are nuerotypical LOVE LOVE LOVE the new AI search mechanisms. They'll tell me exactly what the answer they received was - regardless of whether it's right or has multiple possible and conflicting answers. They just repeat what the AI said like it was the Gospel Truth.
And they love talking to it like it was a "real person."
It certainly takes my search parameters and adds its own interpretation to which I have to clarify and correct which is then misinterpreted further...
I haven't tried vibe coding, but I can only imagine the horror.
Can you imagine vibe pentesting with Claude / Mythos?!?!?!
You know how neurodivergent folks gravitated towards IT because it was precise?
Yeah, that's gone now.
@tinker Are you sure that this is an accurate account of history? I think a big reason we didn't see widespread "fuzzy" search earlier is because we just didn't know how to make it work well. Simple keyword search is much easier to implement, especially at scale. And even then you had and still have many aspects that are still far from precise and very much heuristic, like the ranking of search results. Of course a few idealized problems admit "precise" algorithms (like PageRank) but that's it?
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We went from precise web search with boolean operators to "natural language models" of AI search.
You can tell nuerodivergent, Autistic, ADHD, AuDHD, etc folks created the early internet...
...and you can tell that neurotypical folks are now leading the current overlays of the internet.
We used to have very precise search mechanisms. Specific words found in web pages with boolean operators (AND, OR, NOT, etc) to filter out the web pages that contained specific words and did not contain other words.
Now, we search for web sites (or don't even search for web sites, yay abstraction layers that separate us from actual raw information) using "natural language" to try and coax out info.
Have you ever been frustrated when you use very precise and direct language to communicate a specific idea with someone who then takes those specific words and adds obscure meaning and connotations and personal fears and bias to what you said... thus completely misunderstanding you... only to then try and clarify what you said with more precise language only to have that further degrade the conversation?!
Yeah. That's the internet with AI "search" now.
They took something that worked precisely and directly and muddied it.
We've introduced the "double-empathy problem" to web search.
I'm noticing that everyone in my circles, family, and especially work that are nuerotypical LOVE LOVE LOVE the new AI search mechanisms. They'll tell me exactly what the answer they received was - regardless of whether it's right or has multiple possible and conflicting answers. They just repeat what the AI said like it was the Gospel Truth.
And they love talking to it like it was a "real person."
It certainly takes my search parameters and adds its own interpretation to which I have to clarify and correct which is then misinterpreted further...
I haven't tried vibe coding, but I can only imagine the horror.
Can you imagine vibe pentesting with Claude / Mythos?!?!?!
You know how neurodivergent folks gravitated towards IT because it was precise?
Yeah, that's gone now.
If you wanted to have an idea of just how absurd vibecoding is @jonny ’s epic thread, where he reviewed Claude source is more than enough.
I encourage you, however, to reconsider your presumption that neurotypical people automatically love that bullshit. It is very typical to assume anecdotal experience as globally relevant.
Nine year-old children now say “it’s AI” to characterize something as a lie. Children have no history where search was reliable.
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We went from precise web search with boolean operators to "natural language models" of AI search.
You can tell nuerodivergent, Autistic, ADHD, AuDHD, etc folks created the early internet...
...and you can tell that neurotypical folks are now leading the current overlays of the internet.
We used to have very precise search mechanisms. Specific words found in web pages with boolean operators (AND, OR, NOT, etc) to filter out the web pages that contained specific words and did not contain other words.
Now, we search for web sites (or don't even search for web sites, yay abstraction layers that separate us from actual raw information) using "natural language" to try and coax out info.
Have you ever been frustrated when you use very precise and direct language to communicate a specific idea with someone who then takes those specific words and adds obscure meaning and connotations and personal fears and bias to what you said... thus completely misunderstanding you... only to then try and clarify what you said with more precise language only to have that further degrade the conversation?!
Yeah. That's the internet with AI "search" now.
They took something that worked precisely and directly and muddied it.
We've introduced the "double-empathy problem" to web search.
I'm noticing that everyone in my circles, family, and especially work that are nuerotypical LOVE LOVE LOVE the new AI search mechanisms. They'll tell me exactly what the answer they received was - regardless of whether it's right or has multiple possible and conflicting answers. They just repeat what the AI said like it was the Gospel Truth.
And they love talking to it like it was a "real person."
It certainly takes my search parameters and adds its own interpretation to which I have to clarify and correct which is then misinterpreted further...
I haven't tried vibe coding, but I can only imagine the horror.
Can you imagine vibe pentesting with Claude / Mythos?!?!?!
You know how neurodivergent folks gravitated towards IT because it was precise?
Yeah, that's gone now.
@tinker Is it really gone
I don't think there's a law forcing everyone to use AI to pentest
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We went from precise web search with boolean operators to "natural language models" of AI search.
You can tell nuerodivergent, Autistic, ADHD, AuDHD, etc folks created the early internet...
...and you can tell that neurotypical folks are now leading the current overlays of the internet.
We used to have very precise search mechanisms. Specific words found in web pages with boolean operators (AND, OR, NOT, etc) to filter out the web pages that contained specific words and did not contain other words.
Now, we search for web sites (or don't even search for web sites, yay abstraction layers that separate us from actual raw information) using "natural language" to try and coax out info.
Have you ever been frustrated when you use very precise and direct language to communicate a specific idea with someone who then takes those specific words and adds obscure meaning and connotations and personal fears and bias to what you said... thus completely misunderstanding you... only to then try and clarify what you said with more precise language only to have that further degrade the conversation?!
Yeah. That's the internet with AI "search" now.
They took something that worked precisely and directly and muddied it.
We've introduced the "double-empathy problem" to web search.
I'm noticing that everyone in my circles, family, and especially work that are nuerotypical LOVE LOVE LOVE the new AI search mechanisms. They'll tell me exactly what the answer they received was - regardless of whether it's right or has multiple possible and conflicting answers. They just repeat what the AI said like it was the Gospel Truth.
And they love talking to it like it was a "real person."
It certainly takes my search parameters and adds its own interpretation to which I have to clarify and correct which is then misinterpreted further...
I haven't tried vibe coding, but I can only imagine the horror.
Can you imagine vibe pentesting with Claude / Mythos?!?!?!
You know how neurodivergent folks gravitated towards IT because it was precise?
Yeah, that's gone now.
@tinker am i the only one who is disturbed by the combination of a really good point and heroification of neuro spicy folk?
Neurospicy’s are superior human beings! (Satire)
-
We went from precise web search with boolean operators to "natural language models" of AI search.
You can tell nuerodivergent, Autistic, ADHD, AuDHD, etc folks created the early internet...
...and you can tell that neurotypical folks are now leading the current overlays of the internet.
We used to have very precise search mechanisms. Specific words found in web pages with boolean operators (AND, OR, NOT, etc) to filter out the web pages that contained specific words and did not contain other words.
Now, we search for web sites (or don't even search for web sites, yay abstraction layers that separate us from actual raw information) using "natural language" to try and coax out info.
Have you ever been frustrated when you use very precise and direct language to communicate a specific idea with someone who then takes those specific words and adds obscure meaning and connotations and personal fears and bias to what you said... thus completely misunderstanding you... only to then try and clarify what you said with more precise language only to have that further degrade the conversation?!
Yeah. That's the internet with AI "search" now.
They took something that worked precisely and directly and muddied it.
We've introduced the "double-empathy problem" to web search.
I'm noticing that everyone in my circles, family, and especially work that are nuerotypical LOVE LOVE LOVE the new AI search mechanisms. They'll tell me exactly what the answer they received was - regardless of whether it's right or has multiple possible and conflicting answers. They just repeat what the AI said like it was the Gospel Truth.
And they love talking to it like it was a "real person."
It certainly takes my search parameters and adds its own interpretation to which I have to clarify and correct which is then misinterpreted further...
I haven't tried vibe coding, but I can only imagine the horror.
Can you imagine vibe pentesting with Claude / Mythos?!?!?!
You know how neurodivergent folks gravitated towards IT because it was precise?
Yeah, that's gone now.
@tinker "nuerodivergent [chose] boolean operators (AND, OR, NOT, etc)'
No. We simply had engineers and developers who cared about what engineers and developers care about: logic, accuracy, consistency. They were replaced with people who cosplay at engineering. Skill was replaced with the affectation of skill.
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We went from precise web search with boolean operators to "natural language models" of AI search.
You can tell nuerodivergent, Autistic, ADHD, AuDHD, etc folks created the early internet...
...and you can tell that neurotypical folks are now leading the current overlays of the internet.
We used to have very precise search mechanisms. Specific words found in web pages with boolean operators (AND, OR, NOT, etc) to filter out the web pages that contained specific words and did not contain other words.
Now, we search for web sites (or don't even search for web sites, yay abstraction layers that separate us from actual raw information) using "natural language" to try and coax out info.
Have you ever been frustrated when you use very precise and direct language to communicate a specific idea with someone who then takes those specific words and adds obscure meaning and connotations and personal fears and bias to what you said... thus completely misunderstanding you... only to then try and clarify what you said with more precise language only to have that further degrade the conversation?!
Yeah. That's the internet with AI "search" now.
They took something that worked precisely and directly and muddied it.
We've introduced the "double-empathy problem" to web search.
I'm noticing that everyone in my circles, family, and especially work that are nuerotypical LOVE LOVE LOVE the new AI search mechanisms. They'll tell me exactly what the answer they received was - regardless of whether it's right or has multiple possible and conflicting answers. They just repeat what the AI said like it was the Gospel Truth.
And they love talking to it like it was a "real person."
It certainly takes my search parameters and adds its own interpretation to which I have to clarify and correct which is then misinterpreted further...
I haven't tried vibe coding, but I can only imagine the horror.
Can you imagine vibe pentesting with Claude / Mythos?!?!?!
You know how neurodivergent folks gravitated towards IT because it was precise?
Yeah, that's gone now.
@tinker i started to ask the search engine the way the most stupid person i can imagine would ask.
That helps sometimes and always fills me with a deep semse of loss and sadness. -
R relay@relay.mycrowd.ca shared this topic
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@tinker i get unreasonably upset when i try to use a search the way it was intended and get in response: “fuck you here is what we decided you should have searched for and also here are some slops”
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We went from precise web search with boolean operators to "natural language models" of AI search.
You can tell nuerodivergent, Autistic, ADHD, AuDHD, etc folks created the early internet...
...and you can tell that neurotypical folks are now leading the current overlays of the internet.
We used to have very precise search mechanisms. Specific words found in web pages with boolean operators (AND, OR, NOT, etc) to filter out the web pages that contained specific words and did not contain other words.
Now, we search for web sites (or don't even search for web sites, yay abstraction layers that separate us from actual raw information) using "natural language" to try and coax out info.
Have you ever been frustrated when you use very precise and direct language to communicate a specific idea with someone who then takes those specific words and adds obscure meaning and connotations and personal fears and bias to what you said... thus completely misunderstanding you... only to then try and clarify what you said with more precise language only to have that further degrade the conversation?!
Yeah. That's the internet with AI "search" now.
They took something that worked precisely and directly and muddied it.
We've introduced the "double-empathy problem" to web search.
I'm noticing that everyone in my circles, family, and especially work that are nuerotypical LOVE LOVE LOVE the new AI search mechanisms. They'll tell me exactly what the answer they received was - regardless of whether it's right or has multiple possible and conflicting answers. They just repeat what the AI said like it was the Gospel Truth.
And they love talking to it like it was a "real person."
It certainly takes my search parameters and adds its own interpretation to which I have to clarify and correct which is then misinterpreted further...
I haven't tried vibe coding, but I can only imagine the horror.
Can you imagine vibe pentesting with Claude / Mythos?!?!?!
You know how neurodivergent folks gravitated towards IT because it was precise?
Yeah, that's gone now.
@tinker@infosec.exchange I'm neurodivergent and I like both to be honest. The thought of being able to describe a really precise niche question and then shave off everything else with operators.
coming from someone who often usessite:*.eduand-site:stupidwebsite.com -
We went from precise web search with boolean operators to "natural language models" of AI search.
You can tell nuerodivergent, Autistic, ADHD, AuDHD, etc folks created the early internet...
...and you can tell that neurotypical folks are now leading the current overlays of the internet.
We used to have very precise search mechanisms. Specific words found in web pages with boolean operators (AND, OR, NOT, etc) to filter out the web pages that contained specific words and did not contain other words.
Now, we search for web sites (or don't even search for web sites, yay abstraction layers that separate us from actual raw information) using "natural language" to try and coax out info.
Have you ever been frustrated when you use very precise and direct language to communicate a specific idea with someone who then takes those specific words and adds obscure meaning and connotations and personal fears and bias to what you said... thus completely misunderstanding you... only to then try and clarify what you said with more precise language only to have that further degrade the conversation?!
Yeah. That's the internet with AI "search" now.
They took something that worked precisely and directly and muddied it.
We've introduced the "double-empathy problem" to web search.
I'm noticing that everyone in my circles, family, and especially work that are nuerotypical LOVE LOVE LOVE the new AI search mechanisms. They'll tell me exactly what the answer they received was - regardless of whether it's right or has multiple possible and conflicting answers. They just repeat what the AI said like it was the Gospel Truth.
And they love talking to it like it was a "real person."
It certainly takes my search parameters and adds its own interpretation to which I have to clarify and correct which is then misinterpreted further...
I haven't tried vibe coding, but I can only imagine the horror.
Can you imagine vibe pentesting with Claude / Mythos?!?!?!
You know how neurodivergent folks gravitated towards IT because it was precise?
Yeah, that's gone now.
> Now, we search for web sites (or don't even search for web sites, yay abstraction layers that separate us from actual raw information) using "natural language" to try and coax out info.
If you think wanting natural language search is a recent desire, or invention, or a tool of the neurotypical, you are woefully misinformed.
E.g., https://www.mcgovern.org/the-legacy-of-patrick-j-mcgovern/from-the-pages-of-tech-history/april-4-1973-geologists-use-natural-language-system-to-study-moon-samples/ from the early '70s.
Or https://github.com/JanWielemaker/chat80 in the early '80s.
More history in https://www.e3s-conferences.org/articles/e3sconf/pdf/2021/05/e3sconf_iccsre2021_01039.pdf.
-
We went from precise web search with boolean operators to "natural language models" of AI search.
You can tell nuerodivergent, Autistic, ADHD, AuDHD, etc folks created the early internet...
...and you can tell that neurotypical folks are now leading the current overlays of the internet.
We used to have very precise search mechanisms. Specific words found in web pages with boolean operators (AND, OR, NOT, etc) to filter out the web pages that contained specific words and did not contain other words.
Now, we search for web sites (or don't even search for web sites, yay abstraction layers that separate us from actual raw information) using "natural language" to try and coax out info.
Have you ever been frustrated when you use very precise and direct language to communicate a specific idea with someone who then takes those specific words and adds obscure meaning and connotations and personal fears and bias to what you said... thus completely misunderstanding you... only to then try and clarify what you said with more precise language only to have that further degrade the conversation?!
Yeah. That's the internet with AI "search" now.
They took something that worked precisely and directly and muddied it.
We've introduced the "double-empathy problem" to web search.
I'm noticing that everyone in my circles, family, and especially work that are nuerotypical LOVE LOVE LOVE the new AI search mechanisms. They'll tell me exactly what the answer they received was - regardless of whether it's right or has multiple possible and conflicting answers. They just repeat what the AI said like it was the Gospel Truth.
And they love talking to it like it was a "real person."
It certainly takes my search parameters and adds its own interpretation to which I have to clarify and correct which is then misinterpreted further...
I haven't tried vibe coding, but I can only imagine the horror.
Can you imagine vibe pentesting with Claude / Mythos?!?!?!
You know how neurodivergent folks gravitated towards IT because it was precise?
Yeah, that's gone now.
@tinker thank you, I feel seen
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We went from precise web search with boolean operators to "natural language models" of AI search.
You can tell nuerodivergent, Autistic, ADHD, AuDHD, etc folks created the early internet...
...and you can tell that neurotypical folks are now leading the current overlays of the internet.
We used to have very precise search mechanisms. Specific words found in web pages with boolean operators (AND, OR, NOT, etc) to filter out the web pages that contained specific words and did not contain other words.
Now, we search for web sites (or don't even search for web sites, yay abstraction layers that separate us from actual raw information) using "natural language" to try and coax out info.
Have you ever been frustrated when you use very precise and direct language to communicate a specific idea with someone who then takes those specific words and adds obscure meaning and connotations and personal fears and bias to what you said... thus completely misunderstanding you... only to then try and clarify what you said with more precise language only to have that further degrade the conversation?!
Yeah. That's the internet with AI "search" now.
They took something that worked precisely and directly and muddied it.
We've introduced the "double-empathy problem" to web search.
I'm noticing that everyone in my circles, family, and especially work that are nuerotypical LOVE LOVE LOVE the new AI search mechanisms. They'll tell me exactly what the answer they received was - regardless of whether it's right or has multiple possible and conflicting answers. They just repeat what the AI said like it was the Gospel Truth.
And they love talking to it like it was a "real person."
It certainly takes my search parameters and adds its own interpretation to which I have to clarify and correct which is then misinterpreted further...
I haven't tried vibe coding, but I can only imagine the horror.
Can you imagine vibe pentesting with Claude / Mythos?!?!?!
You know how neurodivergent folks gravitated towards IT because it was precise?
Yeah, that's gone now.
-
We went from precise web search with boolean operators to "natural language models" of AI search.
You can tell nuerodivergent, Autistic, ADHD, AuDHD, etc folks created the early internet...
...and you can tell that neurotypical folks are now leading the current overlays of the internet.
We used to have very precise search mechanisms. Specific words found in web pages with boolean operators (AND, OR, NOT, etc) to filter out the web pages that contained specific words and did not contain other words.
Now, we search for web sites (or don't even search for web sites, yay abstraction layers that separate us from actual raw information) using "natural language" to try and coax out info.
Have you ever been frustrated when you use very precise and direct language to communicate a specific idea with someone who then takes those specific words and adds obscure meaning and connotations and personal fears and bias to what you said... thus completely misunderstanding you... only to then try and clarify what you said with more precise language only to have that further degrade the conversation?!
Yeah. That's the internet with AI "search" now.
They took something that worked precisely and directly and muddied it.
We've introduced the "double-empathy problem" to web search.
I'm noticing that everyone in my circles, family, and especially work that are nuerotypical LOVE LOVE LOVE the new AI search mechanisms. They'll tell me exactly what the answer they received was - regardless of whether it's right or has multiple possible and conflicting answers. They just repeat what the AI said like it was the Gospel Truth.
And they love talking to it like it was a "real person."
It certainly takes my search parameters and adds its own interpretation to which I have to clarify and correct which is then misinterpreted further...
I haven't tried vibe coding, but I can only imagine the horror.
Can you imagine vibe pentesting with Claude / Mythos?!?!?!
You know how neurodivergent folks gravitated towards IT because it was precise?
Yeah, that's gone now.
@tinker I miss proper search syntax so much. There was a help page explaining it, an advanced form, and they even taught it in normie school...
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We went from precise web search with boolean operators to "natural language models" of AI search.
You can tell nuerodivergent, Autistic, ADHD, AuDHD, etc folks created the early internet...
...and you can tell that neurotypical folks are now leading the current overlays of the internet.
We used to have very precise search mechanisms. Specific words found in web pages with boolean operators (AND, OR, NOT, etc) to filter out the web pages that contained specific words and did not contain other words.
Now, we search for web sites (or don't even search for web sites, yay abstraction layers that separate us from actual raw information) using "natural language" to try and coax out info.
Have you ever been frustrated when you use very precise and direct language to communicate a specific idea with someone who then takes those specific words and adds obscure meaning and connotations and personal fears and bias to what you said... thus completely misunderstanding you... only to then try and clarify what you said with more precise language only to have that further degrade the conversation?!
Yeah. That's the internet with AI "search" now.
They took something that worked precisely and directly and muddied it.
We've introduced the "double-empathy problem" to web search.
I'm noticing that everyone in my circles, family, and especially work that are nuerotypical LOVE LOVE LOVE the new AI search mechanisms. They'll tell me exactly what the answer they received was - regardless of whether it's right or has multiple possible and conflicting answers. They just repeat what the AI said like it was the Gospel Truth.
And they love talking to it like it was a "real person."
It certainly takes my search parameters and adds its own interpretation to which I have to clarify and correct which is then misinterpreted further...
I haven't tried vibe coding, but I can only imagine the horror.
Can you imagine vibe pentesting with Claude / Mythos?!?!?!
You know how neurodivergent folks gravitated towards IT because it was precise?
Yeah, that's gone now.
After reading some of the replies to the OP (and you should read them, too. It's a good discussion) - I need to clarify.
I'm using neurotypical / neurodivergent (autistic / allistic, etc) as a fairly general kludge. Even quantifying what those mean is currently in flux as we sort out and dive into these ideas.
I have lived experience with two rough groups of people. Folks that use precise and direct language and folks that use language as a way to vibe, feel, and engage with others (rather than communicate specific thoughts, ideas, and concepts, etc).
And I see how one group interacts well within their methodologies but has trouble with the other group and vice versa.
I even know folks from both groups that act as translators and understand each other.
As a quick aside I have two sisters. One I would describe as neurotypical and the other (and myself) as neurodivergent. We all understand each other as we grew up together and we very specifically understand the differences in our communication styles and will even "code-switch" (not a perfect metaphor) with each other.
Anyhow. Take those current terms and understand that they're imperfect...
...which makes that concept of a "natural language" model even all the more hideous to me.
Natural to whom?
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@tinker modern search is perfectly efficient—it's just been tuned to maximize sponsored links, ads, and AI summaries, rather than accurate results.
They know people will keep searching for the info they need, and much like widening toothpaste tube spouts, it boosts profits at direct cost to the user, without providing them any better service.
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@tinker
Nothing to do with Neurotypical, but malicious massive corporations.The original search implementations were informed by study of computer science and mathematics. CS is practically dead now, having been replaced by churning out code-monkeys that never learn programming but only a programming language.
Even if you don't use "AI Search" , Seach parameters are broken even on Qwant. Even the "-" prefix for exclude now fails.
It's greedy capitalism.
@raymaccarthy - I disagree.
I do see your point, but.... I'm not seeing ads in AI search yet (it will happen soon certainly).
The same people implementing the AI search absolutely want as many eyes on ads as possible...
...and right now thats biting them in the ass.
Ironically when folks ask AI a question, THEY ARE NOT going through search results.
Google is getting hurt because folks ask a search question. Read the AI output. Dont go through web site listings or click on web sites.
AI - right now - is HURTING ad revenue.
Edit: I may be wrong here. Things are moving really quickly. I'll leave the above up but read responses below.
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After reading some of the replies to the OP (and you should read them, too. It's a good discussion) - I need to clarify.
I'm using neurotypical / neurodivergent (autistic / allistic, etc) as a fairly general kludge. Even quantifying what those mean is currently in flux as we sort out and dive into these ideas.
I have lived experience with two rough groups of people. Folks that use precise and direct language and folks that use language as a way to vibe, feel, and engage with others (rather than communicate specific thoughts, ideas, and concepts, etc).
And I see how one group interacts well within their methodologies but has trouble with the other group and vice versa.
I even know folks from both groups that act as translators and understand each other.
As a quick aside I have two sisters. One I would describe as neurotypical and the other (and myself) as neurodivergent. We all understand each other as we grew up together and we very specifically understand the differences in our communication styles and will even "code-switch" (not a perfect metaphor) with each other.
Anyhow. Take those current terms and understand that they're imperfect...
...which makes that concept of a "natural language" model even all the more hideous to me.
Natural to whom?
@tinker AI is divination
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> Now, we search for web sites (or don't even search for web sites, yay abstraction layers that separate us from actual raw information) using "natural language" to try and coax out info.
If you think wanting natural language search is a recent desire, or invention, or a tool of the neurotypical, you are woefully misinformed.
E.g., https://www.mcgovern.org/the-legacy-of-patrick-j-mcgovern/from-the-pages-of-tech-history/april-4-1973-geologists-use-natural-language-system-to-study-moon-samples/ from the early '70s.
Or https://github.com/JanWielemaker/chat80 in the early '80s.
More history in https://www.e3s-conferences.org/articles/e3sconf/pdf/2021/05/e3sconf_iccsre2021_01039.pdf.
@nikclayton - I didn't claim it was a recent desire.
I claimed it was a recent implementation.
Nothing you posted addresses my core claims or points. This is a weird "gotcha" that doesn't serve a purpose. If anything it, it backs up my claims.
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@tinker am i the only one who is disturbed by the combination of a really good point and heroification of neuro spicy folk?
Neurospicy’s are superior human beings! (Satire)
@Engel - It was not my intent to heroify anyone or any side.
I am frustrated that search, coding, and testing - which have been (and I believe should remain) precise - are no longer precise.
But I get the desire for a machine to be approached in a human like manner.
I even gave examples of how many folks in my circle including loved ones really like the AI interface and input/output.
So. Different but not less/better.
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We went from precise web search with boolean operators to "natural language models" of AI search.
You can tell nuerodivergent, Autistic, ADHD, AuDHD, etc folks created the early internet...
...and you can tell that neurotypical folks are now leading the current overlays of the internet.
We used to have very precise search mechanisms. Specific words found in web pages with boolean operators (AND, OR, NOT, etc) to filter out the web pages that contained specific words and did not contain other words.
Now, we search for web sites (or don't even search for web sites, yay abstraction layers that separate us from actual raw information) using "natural language" to try and coax out info.
Have you ever been frustrated when you use very precise and direct language to communicate a specific idea with someone who then takes those specific words and adds obscure meaning and connotations and personal fears and bias to what you said... thus completely misunderstanding you... only to then try and clarify what you said with more precise language only to have that further degrade the conversation?!
Yeah. That's the internet with AI "search" now.
They took something that worked precisely and directly and muddied it.
We've introduced the "double-empathy problem" to web search.
I'm noticing that everyone in my circles, family, and especially work that are nuerotypical LOVE LOVE LOVE the new AI search mechanisms. They'll tell me exactly what the answer they received was - regardless of whether it's right or has multiple possible and conflicting answers. They just repeat what the AI said like it was the Gospel Truth.
And they love talking to it like it was a "real person."
It certainly takes my search parameters and adds its own interpretation to which I have to clarify and correct which is then misinterpreted further...
I haven't tried vibe coding, but I can only imagine the horror.
Can you imagine vibe pentesting with Claude / Mythos?!?!?!
You know how neurodivergent folks gravitated towards IT because it was precise?
Yeah, that's gone now.
@tinker
I don't think I'm neurodivergent, don't know for sure, fairly mildly if I am, but I hate hate hate hate hate hate hate hate hate what AI has done to search. It's worse than the pre-Google days when you needed to use search aggregators. And now AI has broken Google. It's even broken Duck Duck Go.
