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  3. We went from precise web search with boolean operators to "natural language models" of AI search.

We went from precise web search with boolean operators to "natural language models" of AI search.

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llmclaudemythosinfosec
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  • tinker@infosec.exchangeT tinker@infosec.exchange

    We went from precise web search with boolean operators to "natural language models" of AI search.

    You can tell nuerodivergent, Autistic, ADHD, AuDHD, etc folks created the early internet...

    ...and you can tell that neurotypical folks are now leading the current overlays of the internet.

    We used to have very precise search mechanisms. Specific words found in web pages with boolean operators (AND, OR, NOT, etc) to filter out the web pages that contained specific words and did not contain other words.

    Now, we search for web sites (or don't even search for web sites, yay abstraction layers that separate us from actual raw information) using "natural language" to try and coax out info.

    Have you ever been frustrated when you use very precise and direct language to communicate a specific idea with someone who then takes those specific words and adds obscure meaning and connotations and personal fears and bias to what you said... thus completely misunderstanding you... only to then try and clarify what you said with more precise language only to have that further degrade the conversation?!

    Yeah. That's the internet with AI "search" now.

    They took something that worked precisely and directly and muddied it.

    We've introduced the "double-empathy problem" to web search.

    I'm noticing that everyone in my circles, family, and especially work that are nuerotypical LOVE LOVE LOVE the new AI search mechanisms. They'll tell me exactly what the answer they received was - regardless of whether it's right or has multiple possible and conflicting answers. They just repeat what the AI said like it was the Gospel Truth.

    And they love talking to it like it was a "real person."

    It certainly takes my search parameters and adds its own interpretation to which I have to clarify and correct which is then misinterpreted further...

    I haven't tried vibe coding, but I can only imagine the horror.

    Can you imagine vibe pentesting with Claude / Mythos?!?!?!

    You know how neurodivergent folks gravitated towards IT because it was precise?

    Yeah, that's gone now.

    #AI #LLM #Claude #Mythos #infosec #Autism #ADHD

    greatbigtable@mastodon.socialG This user is from outside of this forum
    greatbigtable@mastodon.socialG This user is from outside of this forum
    greatbigtable@mastodon.social
    wrote last edited by
    #34

    @tinker I was so angry when many search engines stopped processing the AND, OR, NOT, and NEAR keywords.

    While, you can still refine searches with advanced search syntax of each search engine, it is just not the same.

    1 Reply Last reply
    0
    • tinker@infosec.exchangeT tinker@infosec.exchange

      We went from precise web search with boolean operators to "natural language models" of AI search.

      You can tell nuerodivergent, Autistic, ADHD, AuDHD, etc folks created the early internet...

      ...and you can tell that neurotypical folks are now leading the current overlays of the internet.

      We used to have very precise search mechanisms. Specific words found in web pages with boolean operators (AND, OR, NOT, etc) to filter out the web pages that contained specific words and did not contain other words.

      Now, we search for web sites (or don't even search for web sites, yay abstraction layers that separate us from actual raw information) using "natural language" to try and coax out info.

      Have you ever been frustrated when you use very precise and direct language to communicate a specific idea with someone who then takes those specific words and adds obscure meaning and connotations and personal fears and bias to what you said... thus completely misunderstanding you... only to then try and clarify what you said with more precise language only to have that further degrade the conversation?!

      Yeah. That's the internet with AI "search" now.

      They took something that worked precisely and directly and muddied it.

      We've introduced the "double-empathy problem" to web search.

      I'm noticing that everyone in my circles, family, and especially work that are nuerotypical LOVE LOVE LOVE the new AI search mechanisms. They'll tell me exactly what the answer they received was - regardless of whether it's right or has multiple possible and conflicting answers. They just repeat what the AI said like it was the Gospel Truth.

      And they love talking to it like it was a "real person."

      It certainly takes my search parameters and adds its own interpretation to which I have to clarify and correct which is then misinterpreted further...

      I haven't tried vibe coding, but I can only imagine the horror.

      Can you imagine vibe pentesting with Claude / Mythos?!?!?!

      You know how neurodivergent folks gravitated towards IT because it was precise?

      Yeah, that's gone now.

      #AI #LLM #Claude #Mythos #infosec #Autism #ADHD

      ukeleleeric@mstdn.socialU This user is from outside of this forum
      ukeleleeric@mstdn.socialU This user is from outside of this forum
      ukeleleeric@mstdn.social
      wrote last edited by
      #35

      @tinker Not sure that it's as much a neuro typical/neuro divergent divide as you state. I am, as far as I can tell, fairly neuro typical. I also hate the enshittified search engines and AI. I want to search for what I want, not what a statistical word jumbler predicts is most likely to coincide with the words I typed in.

      1 Reply Last reply
      0
      • joshsusser@autistics.lifeJ joshsusser@autistics.life

        @datum I wish I had the energy for this kind of deep technical convo today, but I don't. But I'll just say it's more complicated than that in practice, as the internet is multilingual and a lot of people write poorly. The enhancement you mention is basically what I meant when I said you had to add some semantics to the keyword query. That might seem simple at first, but the complexity compounds. I don't think natural language is solving this problem well now, so maybe there will be a better keyword-based solution sometime. There's certainly room for improvement.

        datum@zeroes.caD This user is from outside of this forum
        datum@zeroes.caD This user is from outside of this forum
        datum@zeroes.ca
        wrote last edited by
        #36

        @joshsusser Fair enough, guard your spoons! Thank you for raising the notion.

        1 Reply Last reply
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        • h2onolan@infosec.exchangeH h2onolan@infosec.exchange

          @tinker i get unreasonably upset when i try to use a search the way it was intended and get in response: “fuck you here is what we decided you should have searched for and also here are some slops”

          robinsyl@meow.socialR This user is from outside of this forum
          robinsyl@meow.socialR This user is from outside of this forum
          robinsyl@meow.social
          wrote last edited by
          #37

          @h2onolan @tinker youtube

          1 Reply Last reply
          0
          • tinker@infosec.exchangeT tinker@infosec.exchange

            We went from precise web search with boolean operators to "natural language models" of AI search.

            You can tell nuerodivergent, Autistic, ADHD, AuDHD, etc folks created the early internet...

            ...and you can tell that neurotypical folks are now leading the current overlays of the internet.

            We used to have very precise search mechanisms. Specific words found in web pages with boolean operators (AND, OR, NOT, etc) to filter out the web pages that contained specific words and did not contain other words.

            Now, we search for web sites (or don't even search for web sites, yay abstraction layers that separate us from actual raw information) using "natural language" to try and coax out info.

            Have you ever been frustrated when you use very precise and direct language to communicate a specific idea with someone who then takes those specific words and adds obscure meaning and connotations and personal fears and bias to what you said... thus completely misunderstanding you... only to then try and clarify what you said with more precise language only to have that further degrade the conversation?!

            Yeah. That's the internet with AI "search" now.

            They took something that worked precisely and directly and muddied it.

            We've introduced the "double-empathy problem" to web search.

            I'm noticing that everyone in my circles, family, and especially work that are nuerotypical LOVE LOVE LOVE the new AI search mechanisms. They'll tell me exactly what the answer they received was - regardless of whether it's right or has multiple possible and conflicting answers. They just repeat what the AI said like it was the Gospel Truth.

            And they love talking to it like it was a "real person."

            It certainly takes my search parameters and adds its own interpretation to which I have to clarify and correct which is then misinterpreted further...

            I haven't tried vibe coding, but I can only imagine the horror.

            Can you imagine vibe pentesting with Claude / Mythos?!?!?!

            You know how neurodivergent folks gravitated towards IT because it was precise?

            Yeah, that's gone now.

            #AI #LLM #Claude #Mythos #infosec #Autism #ADHD

            sollat@masto.aiS This user is from outside of this forum
            sollat@masto.aiS This user is from outside of this forum
            sollat@masto.ai
            wrote last edited by
            #38

            @tinker
            I don’t know. Are sociopaths neurotypical?

            P 1 Reply Last reply
            0
            • tinker@infosec.exchangeT tinker@infosec.exchange

              We went from precise web search with boolean operators to "natural language models" of AI search.

              You can tell nuerodivergent, Autistic, ADHD, AuDHD, etc folks created the early internet...

              ...and you can tell that neurotypical folks are now leading the current overlays of the internet.

              We used to have very precise search mechanisms. Specific words found in web pages with boolean operators (AND, OR, NOT, etc) to filter out the web pages that contained specific words and did not contain other words.

              Now, we search for web sites (or don't even search for web sites, yay abstraction layers that separate us from actual raw information) using "natural language" to try and coax out info.

              Have you ever been frustrated when you use very precise and direct language to communicate a specific idea with someone who then takes those specific words and adds obscure meaning and connotations and personal fears and bias to what you said... thus completely misunderstanding you... only to then try and clarify what you said with more precise language only to have that further degrade the conversation?!

              Yeah. That's the internet with AI "search" now.

              They took something that worked precisely and directly and muddied it.

              We've introduced the "double-empathy problem" to web search.

              I'm noticing that everyone in my circles, family, and especially work that are nuerotypical LOVE LOVE LOVE the new AI search mechanisms. They'll tell me exactly what the answer they received was - regardless of whether it's right or has multiple possible and conflicting answers. They just repeat what the AI said like it was the Gospel Truth.

              And they love talking to it like it was a "real person."

              It certainly takes my search parameters and adds its own interpretation to which I have to clarify and correct which is then misinterpreted further...

              I haven't tried vibe coding, but I can only imagine the horror.

              Can you imagine vibe pentesting with Claude / Mythos?!?!?!

              You know how neurodivergent folks gravitated towards IT because it was precise?

              Yeah, that's gone now.

              #AI #LLM #Claude #Mythos #infosec #Autism #ADHD

              morrick@appdot.netM This user is from outside of this forum
              morrick@appdot.netM This user is from outside of this forum
              morrick@appdot.net
              wrote last edited by
              #39

              @tinker Early Internet made by neurodivergent people and today’s Internet in the hands of the neurotypical? I’m not so sure. It’s enshittification made by people who want to extract as much as possible from everyone while returning a much worse experience than before. It’s this ‘AI’ craze inflated by an industry that desperately seeks relevance to try making millions out of next-to nothing.

              Early Internet’s model was altruism. Today, selfishness.

              I’m not neurodivergent and I HATE AI search.

              1 Reply Last reply
              0
              • tinker@infosec.exchangeT tinker@infosec.exchange

                We went from precise web search with boolean operators to "natural language models" of AI search.

                You can tell nuerodivergent, Autistic, ADHD, AuDHD, etc folks created the early internet...

                ...and you can tell that neurotypical folks are now leading the current overlays of the internet.

                We used to have very precise search mechanisms. Specific words found in web pages with boolean operators (AND, OR, NOT, etc) to filter out the web pages that contained specific words and did not contain other words.

                Now, we search for web sites (or don't even search for web sites, yay abstraction layers that separate us from actual raw information) using "natural language" to try and coax out info.

                Have you ever been frustrated when you use very precise and direct language to communicate a specific idea with someone who then takes those specific words and adds obscure meaning and connotations and personal fears and bias to what you said... thus completely misunderstanding you... only to then try and clarify what you said with more precise language only to have that further degrade the conversation?!

                Yeah. That's the internet with AI "search" now.

                They took something that worked precisely and directly and muddied it.

                We've introduced the "double-empathy problem" to web search.

                I'm noticing that everyone in my circles, family, and especially work that are nuerotypical LOVE LOVE LOVE the new AI search mechanisms. They'll tell me exactly what the answer they received was - regardless of whether it's right or has multiple possible and conflicting answers. They just repeat what the AI said like it was the Gospel Truth.

                And they love talking to it like it was a "real person."

                It certainly takes my search parameters and adds its own interpretation to which I have to clarify and correct which is then misinterpreted further...

                I haven't tried vibe coding, but I can only imagine the horror.

                Can you imagine vibe pentesting with Claude / Mythos?!?!?!

                You know how neurodivergent folks gravitated towards IT because it was precise?

                Yeah, that's gone now.

                #AI #LLM #Claude #Mythos #infosec #Autism #ADHD

                spandexbob@mastodon.socialS This user is from outside of this forum
                spandexbob@mastodon.socialS This user is from outside of this forum
                spandexbob@mastodon.social
                wrote last edited by
                #40

                @tinker this something I realised recently, I've had no desire to use AI search because the interface feels wrong. Why would I want to 'talk' to the search engine, it's less precise

                1 Reply Last reply
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                • sollat@masto.aiS sollat@masto.ai

                  @tinker
                  I don’t know. Are sociopaths neurotypical?

                  P This user is from outside of this forum
                  P This user is from outside of this forum
                  passwordsarehard4@mastodon.social
                  wrote last edited by
                  #41

                  @sollat @tinker in boardroom settings, yes. It all kinda depends on the data sampled.

                  1 Reply Last reply
                  0
                  • tinker@infosec.exchangeT tinker@infosec.exchange

                    We went from precise web search with boolean operators to "natural language models" of AI search.

                    You can tell nuerodivergent, Autistic, ADHD, AuDHD, etc folks created the early internet...

                    ...and you can tell that neurotypical folks are now leading the current overlays of the internet.

                    We used to have very precise search mechanisms. Specific words found in web pages with boolean operators (AND, OR, NOT, etc) to filter out the web pages that contained specific words and did not contain other words.

                    Now, we search for web sites (or don't even search for web sites, yay abstraction layers that separate us from actual raw information) using "natural language" to try and coax out info.

                    Have you ever been frustrated when you use very precise and direct language to communicate a specific idea with someone who then takes those specific words and adds obscure meaning and connotations and personal fears and bias to what you said... thus completely misunderstanding you... only to then try and clarify what you said with more precise language only to have that further degrade the conversation?!

                    Yeah. That's the internet with AI "search" now.

                    They took something that worked precisely and directly and muddied it.

                    We've introduced the "double-empathy problem" to web search.

                    I'm noticing that everyone in my circles, family, and especially work that are nuerotypical LOVE LOVE LOVE the new AI search mechanisms. They'll tell me exactly what the answer they received was - regardless of whether it's right or has multiple possible and conflicting answers. They just repeat what the AI said like it was the Gospel Truth.

                    And they love talking to it like it was a "real person."

                    It certainly takes my search parameters and adds its own interpretation to which I have to clarify and correct which is then misinterpreted further...

                    I haven't tried vibe coding, but I can only imagine the horror.

                    Can you imagine vibe pentesting with Claude / Mythos?!?!?!

                    You know how neurodivergent folks gravitated towards IT because it was precise?

                    Yeah, that's gone now.

                    #AI #LLM #Claude #Mythos #infosec #Autism #ADHD

                    corbden@defcon.socialC This user is from outside of this forum
                    corbden@defcon.socialC This user is from outside of this forum
                    corbden@defcon.social
                    wrote last edited by
                    #42

                    @tinker We made it for us because we weren't welcome in their spaces. Then it became cool, and then indispensable, so they came and took it over and pushed us out and oh where have we seen this pattern before??

                    1 Reply Last reply
                    0
                    • tinker@infosec.exchangeT tinker@infosec.exchange

                      We went from precise web search with boolean operators to "natural language models" of AI search.

                      You can tell nuerodivergent, Autistic, ADHD, AuDHD, etc folks created the early internet...

                      ...and you can tell that neurotypical folks are now leading the current overlays of the internet.

                      We used to have very precise search mechanisms. Specific words found in web pages with boolean operators (AND, OR, NOT, etc) to filter out the web pages that contained specific words and did not contain other words.

                      Now, we search for web sites (or don't even search for web sites, yay abstraction layers that separate us from actual raw information) using "natural language" to try and coax out info.

                      Have you ever been frustrated when you use very precise and direct language to communicate a specific idea with someone who then takes those specific words and adds obscure meaning and connotations and personal fears and bias to what you said... thus completely misunderstanding you... only to then try and clarify what you said with more precise language only to have that further degrade the conversation?!

                      Yeah. That's the internet with AI "search" now.

                      They took something that worked precisely and directly and muddied it.

                      We've introduced the "double-empathy problem" to web search.

                      I'm noticing that everyone in my circles, family, and especially work that are nuerotypical LOVE LOVE LOVE the new AI search mechanisms. They'll tell me exactly what the answer they received was - regardless of whether it's right or has multiple possible and conflicting answers. They just repeat what the AI said like it was the Gospel Truth.

                      And they love talking to it like it was a "real person."

                      It certainly takes my search parameters and adds its own interpretation to which I have to clarify and correct which is then misinterpreted further...

                      I haven't tried vibe coding, but I can only imagine the horror.

                      Can you imagine vibe pentesting with Claude / Mythos?!?!?!

                      You know how neurodivergent folks gravitated towards IT because it was precise?

                      Yeah, that's gone now.

                      #AI #LLM #Claude #Mythos #infosec #Autism #ADHD

                      alice@lgbtqia.spaceA This user is from outside of this forum
                      alice@lgbtqia.spaceA This user is from outside of this forum
                      alice@lgbtqia.space
                      wrote last edited by
                      #43

                      @tinker modern search is perfectly efficient—it's just been tuned to maximize sponsored links, ads, and AI summaries, rather than accurate results.

                      They know people will keep searching for the info they need, and much like widening toothpaste tube spouts, it boosts profits at direct cost to the user, without providing them any better service.

                      1 Reply Last reply
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                      • R relay@relay.infosec.exchange shared this topic
                      • tinker@infosec.exchangeT tinker@infosec.exchange

                        We went from precise web search with boolean operators to "natural language models" of AI search.

                        You can tell nuerodivergent, Autistic, ADHD, AuDHD, etc folks created the early internet...

                        ...and you can tell that neurotypical folks are now leading the current overlays of the internet.

                        We used to have very precise search mechanisms. Specific words found in web pages with boolean operators (AND, OR, NOT, etc) to filter out the web pages that contained specific words and did not contain other words.

                        Now, we search for web sites (or don't even search for web sites, yay abstraction layers that separate us from actual raw information) using "natural language" to try and coax out info.

                        Have you ever been frustrated when you use very precise and direct language to communicate a specific idea with someone who then takes those specific words and adds obscure meaning and connotations and personal fears and bias to what you said... thus completely misunderstanding you... only to then try and clarify what you said with more precise language only to have that further degrade the conversation?!

                        Yeah. That's the internet with AI "search" now.

                        They took something that worked precisely and directly and muddied it.

                        We've introduced the "double-empathy problem" to web search.

                        I'm noticing that everyone in my circles, family, and especially work that are nuerotypical LOVE LOVE LOVE the new AI search mechanisms. They'll tell me exactly what the answer they received was - regardless of whether it's right or has multiple possible and conflicting answers. They just repeat what the AI said like it was the Gospel Truth.

                        And they love talking to it like it was a "real person."

                        It certainly takes my search parameters and adds its own interpretation to which I have to clarify and correct which is then misinterpreted further...

                        I haven't tried vibe coding, but I can only imagine the horror.

                        Can you imagine vibe pentesting with Claude / Mythos?!?!?!

                        You know how neurodivergent folks gravitated towards IT because it was precise?

                        Yeah, that's gone now.

                        #AI #LLM #Claude #Mythos #infosec #Autism #ADHD

                        lkngrrr@hachyderm.ioL This user is from outside of this forum
                        lkngrrr@hachyderm.ioL This user is from outside of this forum
                        lkngrrr@hachyderm.io
                        wrote last edited by
                        #44

                        @tinker eBay still holds the line on Boolean search terms and I love them for it.

                        1 Reply Last reply
                        0
                        • tinker@infosec.exchangeT tinker@infosec.exchange

                          We went from precise web search with boolean operators to "natural language models" of AI search.

                          You can tell nuerodivergent, Autistic, ADHD, AuDHD, etc folks created the early internet...

                          ...and you can tell that neurotypical folks are now leading the current overlays of the internet.

                          We used to have very precise search mechanisms. Specific words found in web pages with boolean operators (AND, OR, NOT, etc) to filter out the web pages that contained specific words and did not contain other words.

                          Now, we search for web sites (or don't even search for web sites, yay abstraction layers that separate us from actual raw information) using "natural language" to try and coax out info.

                          Have you ever been frustrated when you use very precise and direct language to communicate a specific idea with someone who then takes those specific words and adds obscure meaning and connotations and personal fears and bias to what you said... thus completely misunderstanding you... only to then try and clarify what you said with more precise language only to have that further degrade the conversation?!

                          Yeah. That's the internet with AI "search" now.

                          They took something that worked precisely and directly and muddied it.

                          We've introduced the "double-empathy problem" to web search.

                          I'm noticing that everyone in my circles, family, and especially work that are nuerotypical LOVE LOVE LOVE the new AI search mechanisms. They'll tell me exactly what the answer they received was - regardless of whether it's right or has multiple possible and conflicting answers. They just repeat what the AI said like it was the Gospel Truth.

                          And they love talking to it like it was a "real person."

                          It certainly takes my search parameters and adds its own interpretation to which I have to clarify and correct which is then misinterpreted further...

                          I haven't tried vibe coding, but I can only imagine the horror.

                          Can you imagine vibe pentesting with Claude / Mythos?!?!?!

                          You know how neurodivergent folks gravitated towards IT because it was precise?

                          Yeah, that's gone now.

                          #AI #LLM #Claude #Mythos #infosec #Autism #ADHD

                          tress@lgbtqia.spaceT This user is from outside of this forum
                          tress@lgbtqia.spaceT This user is from outside of this forum
                          tress@lgbtqia.space
                          wrote last edited by
                          #45

                          @tinker oh my god. This. So much.

                          1 Reply Last reply
                          0
                          • sillycoelophysis@hachyderm.ioS sillycoelophysis@hachyderm.io

                            @tinker my kid's other mom asks chat gpt mental health questions apparently frequently, sometimes about our child. On the fediverse and in my lefty news podcasts I hear that people hate AI, but most people I know seem to be leaning on it for a lot. It's pretty concerning.

                            iamdannyboling@mstdn.socialI This user is from outside of this forum
                            iamdannyboling@mstdn.socialI This user is from outside of this forum
                            iamdannyboling@mstdn.social
                            wrote last edited by
                            #46

                            @sillyCoelophysis

                            Yes, my husband is an intelligent man but I see him taking AI summaries as verbatim and that worries me.

                            @tinker

                            1 Reply Last reply
                            0
                            • zcutlip@hachyderm.ioZ zcutlip@hachyderm.io

                              @tinker @darthnull There's a place where you can get web search with all those things, without AI (unless you want it), and feels like the google search of the aughts and early '10s.
                              No ads
                              No telemetry
                              No cluttered junk above the first real search result

                              cc @kagihq

                              Link Preview Image
                              Kagi Keyboard Shortcuts and Search Operators | Kagi's Docs

                              Kagi Search Help

                              favicon

                              (help.kagi.com)

                              lennybacon@infosec.exchangeL This user is from outside of this forum
                              lennybacon@infosec.exchangeL This user is from outside of this forum
                              lennybacon@infosec.exchange
                              wrote last edited by
                              #47

                              @zcutlip @tinker @darthnull @kagihq Sure „On September 4, 2024, Kagi Assistant was announced.[17] The Assistant uses generative artificial intelligence models from third party AI providers“

                              1 Reply Last reply
                              0
                              • npars01@mstdn.socialN npars01@mstdn.social

                                @krypt3ia @tinker

                                Bloomberg - Are you a robot?

                                favicon

                                (www.bloomberg.com)

                                The enshittification of google search has fossil fuel funding.
                                https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2024-11-06/saudis-plan-100-billion-ai-powerhouse-to-rival-uae-s-tech-hub

                                Each crappy search result triggers more attempts to find what you need with more prompts & more refined search parameters

                                Each query attempt is being routed to behemoths like this one
                                https://www.tomshardware.com/tech-industry/kevin-o-learys-9-gw-utah-data-center-campus-approved

                                Link Preview Image
                                Utah Data Center - Wikipedia

                                favicon

                                (en.wikipedia.org)

                                That's by design. To waste energy, with a side of state surveillance & chokepoint capitalism

                                Efficient search conserves energy

                                1/

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                                A This user is from outside of this forum
                                avincentinspace@furry.engineer
                                wrote last edited by
                                #48

                                @Npars01 @krypt3ia @tinker mm, no, efficient search provides fewer opportunities to show the user ads

                                glc@mastodon.onlineG 1 Reply Last reply
                                0
                                • tinker@infosec.exchangeT tinker@infosec.exchange

                                  We went from precise web search with boolean operators to "natural language models" of AI search.

                                  You can tell nuerodivergent, Autistic, ADHD, AuDHD, etc folks created the early internet...

                                  ...and you can tell that neurotypical folks are now leading the current overlays of the internet.

                                  We used to have very precise search mechanisms. Specific words found in web pages with boolean operators (AND, OR, NOT, etc) to filter out the web pages that contained specific words and did not contain other words.

                                  Now, we search for web sites (or don't even search for web sites, yay abstraction layers that separate us from actual raw information) using "natural language" to try and coax out info.

                                  Have you ever been frustrated when you use very precise and direct language to communicate a specific idea with someone who then takes those specific words and adds obscure meaning and connotations and personal fears and bias to what you said... thus completely misunderstanding you... only to then try and clarify what you said with more precise language only to have that further degrade the conversation?!

                                  Yeah. That's the internet with AI "search" now.

                                  They took something that worked precisely and directly and muddied it.

                                  We've introduced the "double-empathy problem" to web search.

                                  I'm noticing that everyone in my circles, family, and especially work that are nuerotypical LOVE LOVE LOVE the new AI search mechanisms. They'll tell me exactly what the answer they received was - regardless of whether it's right or has multiple possible and conflicting answers. They just repeat what the AI said like it was the Gospel Truth.

                                  And they love talking to it like it was a "real person."

                                  It certainly takes my search parameters and adds its own interpretation to which I have to clarify and correct which is then misinterpreted further...

                                  I haven't tried vibe coding, but I can only imagine the horror.

                                  Can you imagine vibe pentesting with Claude / Mythos?!?!?!

                                  You know how neurodivergent folks gravitated towards IT because it was precise?

                                  Yeah, that's gone now.

                                  #AI #LLM #Claude #Mythos #infosec #Autism #ADHD

                                  w@11n.orgW This user is from outside of this forum
                                  w@11n.orgW This user is from outside of this forum
                                  w@11n.org
                                  wrote last edited by
                                  #49
                                  we haven't invented a strong enough word to describe my feelings when a search engine searches for what it thinks I meant instead of doing what I told it to do
                                  1 Reply Last reply
                                  0
                                  • A avincentinspace@furry.engineer

                                    @Npars01 @krypt3ia @tinker mm, no, efficient search provides fewer opportunities to show the user ads

                                    glc@mastodon.onlineG This user is from outside of this forum
                                    glc@mastodon.onlineG This user is from outside of this forum
                                    glc@mastodon.online
                                    wrote last edited by
                                    #50

                                    @AVincentInSpace @Npars01 @krypt3ia @tinker

                                    To expand on that: as documented by internal Google emails, in a iively discussion prior to rolling back efficient search.

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                                    0
                                    • tinker@infosec.exchangeT tinker@infosec.exchange

                                      We went from precise web search with boolean operators to "natural language models" of AI search.

                                      You can tell nuerodivergent, Autistic, ADHD, AuDHD, etc folks created the early internet...

                                      ...and you can tell that neurotypical folks are now leading the current overlays of the internet.

                                      We used to have very precise search mechanisms. Specific words found in web pages with boolean operators (AND, OR, NOT, etc) to filter out the web pages that contained specific words and did not contain other words.

                                      Now, we search for web sites (or don't even search for web sites, yay abstraction layers that separate us from actual raw information) using "natural language" to try and coax out info.

                                      Have you ever been frustrated when you use very precise and direct language to communicate a specific idea with someone who then takes those specific words and adds obscure meaning and connotations and personal fears and bias to what you said... thus completely misunderstanding you... only to then try and clarify what you said with more precise language only to have that further degrade the conversation?!

                                      Yeah. That's the internet with AI "search" now.

                                      They took something that worked precisely and directly and muddied it.

                                      We've introduced the "double-empathy problem" to web search.

                                      I'm noticing that everyone in my circles, family, and especially work that are nuerotypical LOVE LOVE LOVE the new AI search mechanisms. They'll tell me exactly what the answer they received was - regardless of whether it's right or has multiple possible and conflicting answers. They just repeat what the AI said like it was the Gospel Truth.

                                      And they love talking to it like it was a "real person."

                                      It certainly takes my search parameters and adds its own interpretation to which I have to clarify and correct which is then misinterpreted further...

                                      I haven't tried vibe coding, but I can only imagine the horror.

                                      Can you imagine vibe pentesting with Claude / Mythos?!?!?!

                                      You know how neurodivergent folks gravitated towards IT because it was precise?

                                      Yeah, that's gone now.

                                      #AI #LLM #Claude #Mythos #infosec #Autism #ADHD

                                      tessarakt@mastodon.socialT This user is from outside of this forum
                                      tessarakt@mastodon.socialT This user is from outside of this forum
                                      tessarakt@mastodon.social
                                      wrote last edited by
                                      #51

                                      @tinker so in less than one generation, IT itself will be gone ...

                                      1 Reply Last reply
                                      0
                                      • tinker@infosec.exchangeT tinker@infosec.exchange

                                        We went from precise web search with boolean operators to "natural language models" of AI search.

                                        You can tell nuerodivergent, Autistic, ADHD, AuDHD, etc folks created the early internet...

                                        ...and you can tell that neurotypical folks are now leading the current overlays of the internet.

                                        We used to have very precise search mechanisms. Specific words found in web pages with boolean operators (AND, OR, NOT, etc) to filter out the web pages that contained specific words and did not contain other words.

                                        Now, we search for web sites (or don't even search for web sites, yay abstraction layers that separate us from actual raw information) using "natural language" to try and coax out info.

                                        Have you ever been frustrated when you use very precise and direct language to communicate a specific idea with someone who then takes those specific words and adds obscure meaning and connotations and personal fears and bias to what you said... thus completely misunderstanding you... only to then try and clarify what you said with more precise language only to have that further degrade the conversation?!

                                        Yeah. That's the internet with AI "search" now.

                                        They took something that worked precisely and directly and muddied it.

                                        We've introduced the "double-empathy problem" to web search.

                                        I'm noticing that everyone in my circles, family, and especially work that are nuerotypical LOVE LOVE LOVE the new AI search mechanisms. They'll tell me exactly what the answer they received was - regardless of whether it's right or has multiple possible and conflicting answers. They just repeat what the AI said like it was the Gospel Truth.

                                        And they love talking to it like it was a "real person."

                                        It certainly takes my search parameters and adds its own interpretation to which I have to clarify and correct which is then misinterpreted further...

                                        I haven't tried vibe coding, but I can only imagine the horror.

                                        Can you imagine vibe pentesting with Claude / Mythos?!?!?!

                                        You know how neurodivergent folks gravitated towards IT because it was precise?

                                        Yeah, that's gone now.

                                        #AI #LLM #Claude #Mythos #infosec #Autism #ADHD

                                        ferricoxide@blahaj.zoneF This user is from outside of this forum
                                        ferricoxide@blahaj.zoneF This user is from outside of this forum
                                        ferricoxide@blahaj.zone
                                        wrote last edited by
                                        #52

                                        @tinker@infosec.exchange

                                        Other than above-average intelligence, I don't consider myself "neurodivergent" (and I definitely haven't been diagnosed ASD or any of the ADHD derivatives. That said, I learned to program at an early age — and many decades ago — which created an operator-oriented mind-set. What I liked about the search of a decade ago was that it functioned analogously to searches in other contexts (LDAP, SQL, JMSE, etc.).

                                        Now? Search is all "squishy". And the only thing that acts as a counter to that "squishiness" is that inputs are stateful: i can iteratively-refine a search to get the results I need.

                                        If you're planning to use advertising to offset the cost of offering an AI-based search, that (all but) forced iterated-request pattern gives you many more opportunities to inject advertising. As a service-operator, you just have to hope that your per-query advertising-revenue is greater than the token-cost of a given iteration.

                                        1 Reply Last reply
                                        0
                                        • tinker@infosec.exchangeT tinker@infosec.exchange

                                          We went from precise web search with boolean operators to "natural language models" of AI search.

                                          You can tell nuerodivergent, Autistic, ADHD, AuDHD, etc folks created the early internet...

                                          ...and you can tell that neurotypical folks are now leading the current overlays of the internet.

                                          We used to have very precise search mechanisms. Specific words found in web pages with boolean operators (AND, OR, NOT, etc) to filter out the web pages that contained specific words and did not contain other words.

                                          Now, we search for web sites (or don't even search for web sites, yay abstraction layers that separate us from actual raw information) using "natural language" to try and coax out info.

                                          Have you ever been frustrated when you use very precise and direct language to communicate a specific idea with someone who then takes those specific words and adds obscure meaning and connotations and personal fears and bias to what you said... thus completely misunderstanding you... only to then try and clarify what you said with more precise language only to have that further degrade the conversation?!

                                          Yeah. That's the internet with AI "search" now.

                                          They took something that worked precisely and directly and muddied it.

                                          We've introduced the "double-empathy problem" to web search.

                                          I'm noticing that everyone in my circles, family, and especially work that are nuerotypical LOVE LOVE LOVE the new AI search mechanisms. They'll tell me exactly what the answer they received was - regardless of whether it's right or has multiple possible and conflicting answers. They just repeat what the AI said like it was the Gospel Truth.

                                          And they love talking to it like it was a "real person."

                                          It certainly takes my search parameters and adds its own interpretation to which I have to clarify and correct which is then misinterpreted further...

                                          I haven't tried vibe coding, but I can only imagine the horror.

                                          Can you imagine vibe pentesting with Claude / Mythos?!?!?!

                                          You know how neurodivergent folks gravitated towards IT because it was precise?

                                          Yeah, that's gone now.

                                          #AI #LLM #Claude #Mythos #infosec #Autism #ADHD

                                          nicelymanifest@mastodon.socialN This user is from outside of this forum
                                          nicelymanifest@mastodon.socialN This user is from outside of this forum
                                          nicelymanifest@mastodon.social
                                          wrote last edited by
                                          #53

                                          @tinker My favourite notion now is to reject the negative infused neurodivergent and neurotypical labels. I propose :

                                          neurodiverse or neurocreative

                                          and

                                          neurosimple or neuroinert

                                          Anything seen as in the minority is so often couched in negative terms. Often as it is a threat to the rest.

                                          I often find 'normal' people severely lacking in curiosity and creativity and passion.

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