Replying to Uta Frith's views, one by one.
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@KatyElphinstone @Tooden @joshsusser @simondassow @adelinej neurofeely vs neurothinky?
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@KatyElphinstone @SecondUniverse @adelinej Uta #Frith was a coauthor, with Simon #BaronCohen, on the original 1985 paper introducing the hopelessly muddled "theory of mind" concept, the phlogiston of autism science. She certainly doesn't have any legitimate claim still to be taken seriously in 2026.
@KatyElphinstone @SecondUniverse @adelinej Oh, and: due to technical difficulties on this device, I couldn't actually see the Uta #Frith interview before. I just glanced through it on my desktop PC. It's even worse than I expected. I particularly noticed the following gem:
"This population is different. It is made up of a lot of adolescents, and among them, a lot of young women. These are people without intellectual impairment, who are perfectly able to communicate verbally and non-verbally, but who might feel highly anxious in social situations. They are perhaps characterised mainly by a sort of hypersensitivity."
This declaration shows such flagrant disregard not only of current scientific research on autism, but even of its early history all the way back to Hans #Asperger, that it’s hard to believe it was uttered in good faith. The misogynistic stereotyping is also remarkable, especially coming from a female scholar.
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@KatyElphinstone @SecondUniverse @adelinej Oh, and: due to technical difficulties on this device, I couldn't actually see the Uta #Frith interview before. I just glanced through it on my desktop PC. It's even worse than I expected. I particularly noticed the following gem:
"This population is different. It is made up of a lot of adolescents, and among them, a lot of young women. These are people without intellectual impairment, who are perfectly able to communicate verbally and non-verbally, but who might feel highly anxious in social situations. They are perhaps characterised mainly by a sort of hypersensitivity."
This declaration shows such flagrant disregard not only of current scientific research on autism, but even of its early history all the way back to Hans #Asperger, that it’s hard to believe it was uttered in good faith. The misogynistic stereotyping is also remarkable, especially coming from a female scholar.
@dedicto @KatyElphinstone @SecondUniverse @adelinej
To be honest I couldn't even bring myself to open the original post. I just knew that it would be as bad as everyone has said.
There is a general trend amongst the old guard of researchers, even those who may have once done some good for our understanding. It's a kind of nose severally out of joint, only professionals know best arrogance and rejection of the progress that is being made. Mostly because so much of it is autistic and community led.
It is the closed mindset so typical of medical and research based communities especially. That won't listen to the true experts, those who daily experience something, and instead cling to the belief that taught knowledge, even if it is decades painfully out of date and which, of course they are the appointed and solely qualified guardians of, can only ever be the truth and any thing else can't. -
@dedicto @KatyElphinstone @SecondUniverse @adelinej
To be honest I couldn't even bring myself to open the original post. I just knew that it would be as bad as everyone has said.
There is a general trend amongst the old guard of researchers, even those who may have once done some good for our understanding. It's a kind of nose severally out of joint, only professionals know best arrogance and rejection of the progress that is being made. Mostly because so much of it is autistic and community led.
It is the closed mindset so typical of medical and research based communities especially. That won't listen to the true experts, those who daily experience something, and instead cling to the belief that taught knowledge, even if it is decades painfully out of date and which, of course they are the appointed and solely qualified guardians of, can only ever be the truth and any thing else can't.@pathfinder @KatyElphinstone @SecondUniverse @adelinej All true. And: I wasn't being flippant in alluding to the possibility of outright bad faith, as opposed to just garden-variety closed-mindedness. A while back I read the following blog post. It paints a disquieting picture of the behavior of Simon #BaronCohen — one that appears to involve reckless disregard at the very least. Unfortunately the post is old, and quite long, and the relevant material is toward the end, but it’s worth knowing about. In brief, it appears that he's capable of painting a nuanced, qualified picture in online dialogue with autistic advocates who might need cooling out — while continuing to make wild and irresponsible generalizations in published books for a mass audience.
Smith, Matthew [Yusuf]. Simon Baron-Cohen, autism, and empathy. Indigo Jo Blogs. 2011 June 29. Available from: https://www.blogistan.co.uk/blog/mt.php/2011/06/29/simon-baron-cohen-autism-and-empathy.
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@pathfinder @KatyElphinstone @SecondUniverse @adelinej All true. And: I wasn't being flippant in alluding to the possibility of outright bad faith, as opposed to just garden-variety closed-mindedness. A while back I read the following blog post. It paints a disquieting picture of the behavior of Simon #BaronCohen — one that appears to involve reckless disregard at the very least. Unfortunately the post is old, and quite long, and the relevant material is toward the end, but it’s worth knowing about. In brief, it appears that he's capable of painting a nuanced, qualified picture in online dialogue with autistic advocates who might need cooling out — while continuing to make wild and irresponsible generalizations in published books for a mass audience.
Smith, Matthew [Yusuf]. Simon Baron-Cohen, autism, and empathy. Indigo Jo Blogs. 2011 June 29. Available from: https://www.blogistan.co.uk/blog/mt.php/2011/06/29/simon-baron-cohen-autism-and-empathy.
@dedicto @KatyElphinstone @SecondUniverse @adelinej
Why am I not surprised. That man has done more harm and set our cause and true understanding further back than anyone else. -
@Tooden @pathfinder @KatyElphinstone @SecondUniverse @adelinej Yes. And until I read this blog post, and one or two others like it, I thought he just needed to be reasoned with. Despite having originated the #mindblindness nonsense, he has at least now spoken out against some of the cruder forms of it. But after reading these blog posts, it appears we're dealing with someone who will just say whatever serves his purposes at the moment, without regard to truth or consistency. And if so, THAT calls for a different approach. He needs to be exposed and discredited.
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@Tooden @pathfinder @KatyElphinstone @SecondUniverse @adelinej Yes. And until I read this blog post, and one or two others like it, I thought he just needed to be reasoned with. Despite having originated the #mindblindness nonsense, he has at least now spoken out against some of the cruder forms of it. But after reading these blog posts, it appears we're dealing with someone who will just say whatever serves his purposes at the moment, without regard to truth or consistency. And if so, THAT calls for a different approach. He needs to be exposed and discredited.
@dedicto @Tooden @KatyElphinstone @SecondUniverse @adelinej
Yep. The fact that he is still considered to be the foremost expert on autism, even after such classics as the extreme male brain and the lack of empathy and especially after he clung to them long after they had been thoroughly kicked to death by every measure, should have destroyed that long ago. But then the emphasis is still far more on them explaining and shedding light on us, than it is on listening and creating room for our understanding. -
@Tooden @pathfinder @KatyElphinstone @SecondUniverse @adelinej More of "Every accusation is a confession". And it looks like Uta #Frith, her own gender to the contrary notwithstanding, has internalized #BaronCohen's misogyny. She paints "high-functioning" autistics as neurotic, introverted teenage girls!
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@dedicto @Tooden @KatyElphinstone @SecondUniverse @adelinej
Yep. The fact that he is still considered to be the foremost expert on autism, even after such classics as the extreme male brain and the lack of empathy and especially after he clung to them long after they had been thoroughly kicked to death by every measure, should have destroyed that long ago. But then the emphasis is still far more on them explaining and shedding light on us, than it is on listening and creating room for our understanding.@pathfinder @dedicto @Tooden @KatyElphinstone @adelinej I inadvertently participated in a Si B-C study recently. They were recruiting intersex subjects. Working through their study (1) it was clear he wanted to use intersex people as a new angle on male brain / female brain, and (2) it tested for empathy and apparently I don't have any. I complained to their ethics board as I felt their recruitment process was deceptive.
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@pathfinder @dedicto @Tooden @KatyElphinstone @adelinej I inadvertently participated in a Si B-C study recently. They were recruiting intersex subjects. Working through their study (1) it was clear he wanted to use intersex people as a new angle on male brain / female brain, and (2) it tested for empathy and apparently I don't have any. I complained to their ethics board as I felt their recruitment process was deceptive.
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@KatyElphinstone @SecondUniverse @adelinej Uta #Frith was a coauthor, with Simon #BaronCohen, on the original 1985 paper introducing the hopelessly muddled "theory of mind" concept, the phlogiston of autism science. She certainly doesn't have any legitimate claim still to be taken seriously in 2026.
"phlogiston of autism science" is a hellava phrase and I'm gonna hold on to that.
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Replying to Uta Frith's views, one by one.
With thanks to all the members of the autistic community who've informed me & inspired me to write this thread.
For those lucky not to know about her article in The Times, and various other related statements, links at the end.
CW: it's upsetting
A thread 🧵
#UtaFrith #Research #Autism #Autistic #ActuallyAutistic #Neurodivergent
@KatyElphinstone hahaha, have you seen this?
Women in male fields! This female autism researcher hates women
A prominent autism researcher has reportedly proven she can shit on autistic women as well as any man in the field. In a recent interview, Professor Karen Hoyland argued that women who claim to be autistic are just angling for a diagnosis, since researchers like...
The Daily Tism (thedailytism.com)
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@KatyElphinstone hahaha, have you seen this?
Women in male fields! This female autism researcher hates women
A prominent autism researcher has reportedly proven she can shit on autistic women as well as any man in the field. In a recent interview, Professor Karen Hoyland argued that women who claim to be autistic are just angling for a diagnosis, since researchers like...
The Daily Tism (thedailytism.com)
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@KatyElphinstone hahaha, have you seen this?
Women in male fields! This female autism researcher hates women
A prominent autism researcher has reportedly proven she can shit on autistic women as well as any man in the field. In a recent interview, Professor Karen Hoyland argued that women who claim to be autistic are just angling for a diagnosis, since researchers like...
The Daily Tism (thedailytism.com)
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Yes
It troubles me that so often they wheel out women to support the dominant paradigm, and essentially very patriarchal views & interests.
I think it's not a coincidence. It's just too convenient. I think they're being played. I never really want to attack the individual, just the views.
@KatyElphinstone *waves with hands* I believe that's because getekeeping and pressure to conform selects for people who can conform, and makes sure they don't have enough spare capacity to consider changing things, so they rationalize their actions instead
and I believe this is not individual, nor systemic, nor group-driven alone but all of them plus their complex interactions, and setting up a gate-keeping self-sustaining group is easy compared to maintaining an open, equal group
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@KatyElphinstone *waves with hands* I believe that's because getekeeping and pressure to conform selects for people who can conform, and makes sure they don't have enough spare capacity to consider changing things, so they rationalize their actions instead
and I believe this is not individual, nor systemic, nor group-driven alone but all of them plus their complex interactions, and setting up a gate-keeping self-sustaining group is easy compared to maintaining an open, equal group
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Yes
It troubles me that so often they wheel out women to support the dominant paradigm, and essentially very patriarchal views & interests.
I think it's not a coincidence. It's just too convenient. I think they're being played. I never really want to attack the individual, just the views.
@KatyElphinstone @Tooden Tokenism is a powerful wedge they can use, if detractors oppose them they can say they're being sexist or whatever. The minority they've chose to use is their human shield, redirects the argument against the speaker not the words being spoken.
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