Replying to Uta Frith's views, one by one.
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Absolutely!
I'm in the middle of a really interesting book by Paul Bloom called 'Against Empathy' which talks quite a bit about the concepts - theory of mind, and so-called 'cognitive empathy' (which I had also found issue with, and mentioned in my article about empathy).
@KatyElphinstone I think the problem is "theory of mind" is a poetic term. It resonates with researchers. It SHOULD mean something. It attracts emotional engagement. But it doesn't mean anything specific.
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@KatyElphinstone I think the problem is "theory of mind" is a poetic term. It resonates with researchers. It SHOULD mean something. It attracts emotional engagement. But it doesn't mean anything specific.
Yes!!
I think you have hit the nail on the head.It is suitably ambiguous (and sciencey sounding) and suitably resonant at the same time.
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@KatyElphinstone I think the problem is "theory of mind" is a poetic term. It resonates with researchers. It SHOULD mean something. It attracts emotional engagement. But it doesn't mean anything specific.
I wrote this thread about theory of mind
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@KatyElphinstone I think the problem is "theory of mind" is a poetic term. It resonates with researchers. It SHOULD mean something. It attracts emotional engagement. But it doesn't mean anything specific.
@SecondUniverse @KatyElphinstone
There is one researcher who was explaining it as this brick wall feeling that I feel…
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@SecondUniverse @KatyElphinstone @adelinej Why do these highly-educated academics always get Theory of Mind wrong? ToM is not the ability to read minds. It is the awareness that other individuals have their own thoughts and perceptions that will be different from your own, not the ability to know what those are.
@joshsusser @SecondUniverse @KatyElphinstone @adelinej
Well… considering how and why I would get punished….
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The Times article: https://www.tes.com/magazine/teaching-learning/general/uta-frith-interview-autism-not-spectrum
Her podcast with Naomi Fisher: https://substack.com/@naomicfisher/note/p-189989936?r=ql236
I read it and I actually feel this. I was in special ed… its tough not having a label anymore where most of the other people are dealing with more similar barriers… people are increasingly…. Not similar circumstance to myself… and that is unhelpful for me…
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I read it and I actually feel this. I was in special ed… its tough not having a label anymore where most of the other people are dealing with more similar barriers… people are increasingly…. Not similar circumstance to myself… and that is unhelpful for me…
Unhelpful for advocacy. Unhelpful for strategies. Unhelpful because of increased social expectations.
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Unhelpful for advocacy. Unhelpful for strategies. Unhelpful because of increased social expectations.
Im fine with having an entirely different label.
But I don’t really wanna share with those who are so much more capable than me… im comfy being separated from both the main buckets so I can find more similar people….
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Im fine with having an entirely different label.
But I don’t really wanna share with those who are so much more capable than me… im comfy being separated from both the main buckets so I can find more similar people….
Its hard to set reasonable expectations…
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@KatyElphinstone @SecondUniverse @adelinej Uta #Frith was a coauthor, with Simon #BaronCohen, on the original 1985 paper introducing the hopelessly muddled "theory of mind" concept, the phlogiston of autism science. She certainly doesn't have any legitimate claim still to be taken seriously in 2026.
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@joshsusser @KatyElphinstone @SecondUniverse @adelinej This is sort of why I started calling it neuroconvergent instead of neurotypical after reading the Double Empathy paper.
@simondassow @joshsusser @KatyElphinstone @SecondUniverse @adelinej neuroconvergent
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@KatyElphinstone I think the problem is "theory of mind" is a poetic term. It resonates with researchers. It SHOULD mean something. It attracts emotional engagement. But it doesn't mean anything specific.
@SecondUniverse @KatyElphinstone i wish a had a mind to base a theory on /j
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@SecondUniverse @KatyElphinstone @adelinej Why do these highly-educated academics always get Theory of Mind wrong? ToM is not the ability to read minds. It is the awareness that other individuals have their own thoughts and perceptions that will be different from your own, not the ability to know what those are.
@joshsusser @SecondUniverse @KatyElphinstone @adelinej i am able to read minds, it works like wifi /j
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Its hard to set reasonable expectations…
I do see what you're saying. Yes. And that must be hard actually. I was disadvantaged at school, but not like that.
Hm I guess, regarding this, I think it may be time to support people with what they need in the ways that they need it? That is, the support should centre around their needs, and not round their diagnosis.
I think her commentary is designed to be divisive... which is exactly what it's doing
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I do see what you're saying. Yes. And that must be hard actually. I was disadvantaged at school, but not like that.
Hm I guess, regarding this, I think it may be time to support people with what they need in the ways that they need it? That is, the support should centre around their needs, and not round their diagnosis.
I think her commentary is designed to be divisive... which is exactly what it's doing
PS and just to say good on you for saying this... I realise that might have taken some courage in the context.
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@SecondUniverse @KatyElphinstone i wish a had a mind to base a theory on /j
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I do see what you're saying. Yes. And that must be hard actually. I was disadvantaged at school, but not like that.
Hm I guess, regarding this, I think it may be time to support people with what they need in the ways that they need it? That is, the support should centre around their needs, and not round their diagnosis.
I think her commentary is designed to be divisive... which is exactly what it's doing
I agree. I think the frustration is being born out of people needing help and not getting it. And I have been waiting for help for a long time after graduating from special ed and not getting autistic specific help.
can’t even really be independent. If my partner left me I would pretty much starve.
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PS and just to say good on you for saying this... I realise that might have taken some courage in the context.
Ok here is a concrete example of personal trouble.
I call places… trying to get help for autism. The services don’t serve my age group, my functioning level (either they want high or low functioning not between and spikey profile), or my government (medicaid) insurance.
If I call some place seeking help for ADHD, the same doesn’t happen.
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Ok here is a concrete example of personal trouble.
I call places… trying to get help for autism. The services don’t serve my age group, my functioning level (either they want high or low functioning not between and spikey profile), or my government (medicaid) insurance.
If I call some place seeking help for ADHD, the same doesn’t happen.
So like how functional can a label really be if when you call for help for it… To help literally isn’t even there. And also the government probably can’t even measure that the help for you isn’t there because it’s all got the same label.
