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  3. Subject: Autistic ‘black and white’ thinking.

Subject: Autistic ‘black and white’ thinking.

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neurodiversityaudhdactuallyautistineurodivergentautism
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  • katyelphinstone@mas.toK katyelphinstone@mas.to

    4: Are we right not to ‘just trust’?

    Many neurotypical social systems run on:
    - Emotional smoothing
    - Implicit trust
    - Status-based reassurance
    - Norm enforcement through vibe rather than data

    If you’ve repeatedly experienced (and many autistic people have; refs at the end):
    - Broken promises
    - Social insecurity and unpredictability
    - Rule inconsistencies and injustices

    Then vague reassurance doesn’t reduce uncertainty – it increases it!

    ⬇️

    katyelphinstone@mas.toK This user is from outside of this forum
    katyelphinstone@mas.toK This user is from outside of this forum
    katyelphinstone@mas.to
    wrote last edited by
    #12

    So the demand for clarity isn’t rigidity.
    It’s risk management.

    Even if sometimes, due to habituation and chronic distress, I think we may ‘bunker in’ and be quite frustratingly intransigent, e.g. in human interactions.

    But that may be more a question of ‘once bitten, twice shy’ rather than anything intrinsic to us.

    ⬇️

    #Autism #Anxiety #RiskManagement

    katyelphinstone@mas.toK 1 Reply Last reply
    0
    • katyelphinstone@mas.toK katyelphinstone@mas.to

      So the demand for clarity isn’t rigidity.
      It’s risk management.

      Even if sometimes, due to habituation and chronic distress, I think we may ‘bunker in’ and be quite frustratingly intransigent, e.g. in human interactions.

      But that may be more a question of ‘once bitten, twice shy’ rather than anything intrinsic to us.

      ⬇️

      #Autism #Anxiety #RiskManagement

      katyelphinstone@mas.toK This user is from outside of this forum
      katyelphinstone@mas.toK This user is from outside of this forum
      katyelphinstone@mas.to
      wrote last edited by
      #13

      I think we autistics might know all this in our bones. In our hearts. Somewhere, anyway… but usually on an instinctive level.

      Even if we’re not aware of our reasons or motivations, and instead struggle with shame and self-doubt (just as we’re encouraged and socialized to do).

      But… clarity is the enemy of oppression!

      It replaces confusion with transparency. It throws light on the landscape 🔦

      ⬇️

      #PowerDynamics #SocialHierarchies #EpistemicInjustice

      katyelphinstone@mas.toK cassandra@ottawa.placeC 2 Replies Last reply
      0
      • katyelphinstone@mas.toK katyelphinstone@mas.to

        I think we autistics might know all this in our bones. In our hearts. Somewhere, anyway… but usually on an instinctive level.

        Even if we’re not aware of our reasons or motivations, and instead struggle with shame and self-doubt (just as we’re encouraged and socialized to do).

        But… clarity is the enemy of oppression!

        It replaces confusion with transparency. It throws light on the landscape 🔦

        ⬇️

        #PowerDynamics #SocialHierarchies #EpistemicInjustice

        katyelphinstone@mas.toK This user is from outside of this forum
        katyelphinstone@mas.toK This user is from outside of this forum
        katyelphinstone@mas.to
        wrote last edited by
        #14

        I think our bones are right.

        In fact, I think embracing a reasoning style based on data, patterns, and probability could be a huge bonus for everyone.

        As – objectively speaking – it could pave the road for authenticity, equity, and justice to replace former murkiness, power plays, and empty promises.

        End of 🧵

        References below 👇

        katyelphinstone@mas.toK szczurtorebkowy@ohai.socialS dedicto@zeroes.caD jessica@gts.woollybear.xyzJ leonavis@mountains.socialL 7 Replies Last reply
        0
        • katyelphinstone@mas.toK katyelphinstone@mas.to

          I think our bones are right.

          In fact, I think embracing a reasoning style based on data, patterns, and probability could be a huge bonus for everyone.

          As – objectively speaking – it could pave the road for authenticity, equity, and justice to replace former murkiness, power plays, and empty promises.

          End of 🧵

          References below 👇

          katyelphinstone@mas.toK This user is from outside of this forum
          katyelphinstone@mas.toK This user is from outside of this forum
          katyelphinstone@mas.to
          wrote last edited by
          #15

          Refs:
          Arendt, H. Truth and Politics
          https://german.yale.edu/sites/default/files/arendt.truth_and_politicslying_in_politics.pdf
          - Explores why factual truth is politically fragile, and how organised lying distorts shared reality.

          Beasant, L. et al. (2023) autistic adults’ views on RCT randomisation and blinding (open access, PMC)
          https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC11134970/
          - Here, autistic adults emphasised the need for clear explanations of how decisions are made.

          more below👇

          katyelphinstone@mas.toK 1 Reply Last reply
          0
          • katyelphinstone@mas.toK katyelphinstone@mas.to

            Refs:
            Arendt, H. Truth and Politics
            https://german.yale.edu/sites/default/files/arendt.truth_and_politicslying_in_politics.pdf
            - Explores why factual truth is politically fragile, and how organised lying distorts shared reality.

            Beasant, L. et al. (2023) autistic adults’ views on RCT randomisation and blinding (open access, PMC)
            https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC11134970/
            - Here, autistic adults emphasised the need for clear explanations of how decisions are made.

            more below👇

            katyelphinstone@mas.toK This user is from outside of this forum
            katyelphinstone@mas.toK This user is from outside of this forum
            katyelphinstone@mas.to
            wrote last edited by
            #16

            Bloom, P. Against Empathy: The Case for Rational Compassion
            - Argues empathy can be biased and spotlight-driven, and defends rational compassion as a better moral guide.

            Demetriou, E.A. et al. (2018) executive function meta-analysis (Molecular Psychiatry)
            https://www.nature.com/articles/mp201775
            - Meta-analysis showing executive-function differences in autism relating to flexibility.

            more below 👇

            katyelphinstone@mas.toK 1 Reply Last reply
            0
            • katyelphinstone@mas.toK katyelphinstone@mas.to

              4: Are we right not to ‘just trust’?

              Many neurotypical social systems run on:
              - Emotional smoothing
              - Implicit trust
              - Status-based reassurance
              - Norm enforcement through vibe rather than data

              If you’ve repeatedly experienced (and many autistic people have; refs at the end):
              - Broken promises
              - Social insecurity and unpredictability
              - Rule inconsistencies and injustices

              Then vague reassurance doesn’t reduce uncertainty – it increases it!

              ⬇️

              d1@autistics.lifeD This user is from outside of this forum
              d1@autistics.lifeD This user is from outside of this forum
              d1@autistics.life
              wrote last edited by
              #17

              @KatyElphinstone 💯 on the vague re-assurances being worth Jack Squat

              katyelphinstone@mas.toK 1 Reply Last reply
              0
              • katyelphinstone@mas.toK katyelphinstone@mas.to

                Bloom, P. Against Empathy: The Case for Rational Compassion
                - Argues empathy can be biased and spotlight-driven, and defends rational compassion as a better moral guide.

                Demetriou, E.A. et al. (2018) executive function meta-analysis (Molecular Psychiatry)
                https://www.nature.com/articles/mp201775
                - Meta-analysis showing executive-function differences in autism relating to flexibility.

                more below 👇

                katyelphinstone@mas.toK This user is from outside of this forum
                katyelphinstone@mas.toK This user is from outside of this forum
                katyelphinstone@mas.to
                wrote last edited by
                #18

                Farmer at el. (2017) consistent decision-making in autism (open PDF copy)
                https://docs.autismresearchcentre.com/papers/2017_Farmer_People-with-ASCs-make-more-consistent-decisions.pdf
                - Finds autistic people to make more consistent choices in a decoy-effect decision task.

                Farmer, P. Pathologies of Power: Health, Human Rights, and the New War on the Poor
                - How ‘structural violence’ produces suffering & why naming power works towards real-world change.

                Freire, P. Pedagogy of the Oppressed
                - Connects oppression & liberation to social, learning, & language frameworks

                more below 👇

                katyelphinstone@mas.toK 1 Reply Last reply
                0
                • katyelphinstone@mas.toK katyelphinstone@mas.to

                  Farmer at el. (2017) consistent decision-making in autism (open PDF copy)
                  https://docs.autismresearchcentre.com/papers/2017_Farmer_People-with-ASCs-make-more-consistent-decisions.pdf
                  - Finds autistic people to make more consistent choices in a decoy-effect decision task.

                  Farmer, P. Pathologies of Power: Health, Human Rights, and the New War on the Poor
                  - How ‘structural violence’ produces suffering & why naming power works towards real-world change.

                  Freire, P. Pedagogy of the Oppressed
                  - Connects oppression & liberation to social, learning, & language frameworks

                  more below 👇

                  katyelphinstone@mas.toK This user is from outside of this forum
                  katyelphinstone@mas.toK This user is from outside of this forum
                  katyelphinstone@mas.to
                  wrote last edited by
                  #19

                  Fricker, M. Epistemic Injustice: Power and the Ethics of Knowing
                  - Defines how power wrongs people, incl. how society lacks concepts to describe harms.

                  Hollocks et al. (2025). Cognitive flexibility mediates the associations between perceived stress, social camouflaging and mental health challenges in autistic adults. Autism Research, 18(8), 1595–1607. https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1002/aur.70061
                  - Higher stress in autistic people was linked to worse anxiety/depression & more rigid thinking.

                  more below 👇

                  katyelphinstone@mas.toK 1 Reply Last reply
                  0
                  • katyelphinstone@mas.toK katyelphinstone@mas.to

                    Fricker, M. Epistemic Injustice: Power and the Ethics of Knowing
                    - Defines how power wrongs people, incl. how society lacks concepts to describe harms.

                    Hollocks et al. (2025). Cognitive flexibility mediates the associations between perceived stress, social camouflaging and mental health challenges in autistic adults. Autism Research, 18(8), 1595–1607. https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1002/aur.70061
                    - Higher stress in autistic people was linked to worse anxiety/depression & more rigid thinking.

                    more below 👇

                    katyelphinstone@mas.toK This user is from outside of this forum
                    katyelphinstone@mas.toK This user is from outside of this forum
                    katyelphinstone@mas.to
                    wrote last edited by
                    #20

                    Jameel, L. et al. (2015) clear-cut vs ambiguous social rules (UCL PDF)
                    https://discovery.ucl.ac.uk/1469956/1/Jameel%20et%20al.%20Great%20Expectations.pdf
                    - Looks at whether social rules are clear-cut or ambiguous and measures responses as a direct test of rule clarity.

                    Jin, P. et al. (2020) fairness games in autism (open access, PMC)
                    https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC7137314/
                    - Uses economic fairness tasks to compare fairness-related choices in autistic and non-autistic groups.

                    more below 👇

                    katyelphinstone@mas.toK 1 Reply Last reply
                    0
                    • katyelphinstone@mas.toK katyelphinstone@mas.to

                      Jameel, L. et al. (2015) clear-cut vs ambiguous social rules (UCL PDF)
                      https://discovery.ucl.ac.uk/1469956/1/Jameel%20et%20al.%20Great%20Expectations.pdf
                      - Looks at whether social rules are clear-cut or ambiguous and measures responses as a direct test of rule clarity.

                      Jin, P. et al. (2020) fairness games in autism (open access, PMC)
                      https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC7137314/
                      - Uses economic fairness tasks to compare fairness-related choices in autistic and non-autistic groups.

                      more below 👇

                      katyelphinstone@mas.toK This user is from outside of this forum
                      katyelphinstone@mas.toK This user is from outside of this forum
                      katyelphinstone@mas.to
                      wrote last edited by
                      #21

                      Karvelis, P. et al. (2018) Bayesian visual integration and autistic traits (open access, PMC)
                      https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC5966274/
                      - Tests autistic traits in Bayesian integration and links traits to stronger perception via more precise sensory information.

                      Li, J. et al. (2014) moral judgement and cooperation in autism (open access, PMC)
                      https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC3945921/
                      - Relates moral judgements in autism to cooperation behaviour in a game context.

                      more below 👇

                      katyelphinstone@mas.toK gra@hachyderm.ioG 2 Replies Last reply
                      0
                      • katyelphinstone@mas.toK katyelphinstone@mas.to

                        Karvelis, P. et al. (2018) Bayesian visual integration and autistic traits (open access, PMC)
                        https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC5966274/
                        - Tests autistic traits in Bayesian integration and links traits to stronger perception via more precise sensory information.

                        Li, J. et al. (2014) moral judgement and cooperation in autism (open access, PMC)
                        https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC3945921/
                        - Relates moral judgements in autism to cooperation behaviour in a game context.

                        more below 👇

                        katyelphinstone@mas.toK This user is from outside of this forum
                        katyelphinstone@mas.toK This user is from outside of this forum
                        katyelphinstone@mas.to
                        wrote last edited by
                        #22

                        Orwell, G. (1946) “Politics and the English Language”
                        https://www.orwellfoundation.com/the-orwell-foundation/orwell/essays-and-other-works/politics-and-the-english-language/
                        - Shows how vague language protects cruelty & frames clarity as resistance to manipulation.

                        Pellicano, E. & Burr, D. (2012) Bayesian explanation of autistic perception (UCL record)
                        https://discovery.ucl.ac.uk/id/eprint/1476122/
                        - A Bayesian framing of autistic perception showing how priors and uncertainty differ in shaping experience.

                        End of refs.

                        simondassow@masto.aiS sci_fi_fangirl@hessen.socialS 2 Replies Last reply
                        0
                        • katyelphinstone@mas.toK katyelphinstone@mas.to

                          7. We can be a bit like pattern-seeking missiles.

                          8. When new evidence comes to light, we’re generally adaptable – even if it takes a minute.

                          9. That said, we may dig in our heels about things (like change) when we’re anxious or scared.

                          10. We like gathering data, and interactions that are a true exchange of information.

                          But none of this amounts to cognitive rigidity or ‘black and white’ thinking 🤔

                          ⬇️

                          paco@infosec.exchangeP This user is from outside of this forum
                          paco@infosec.exchangeP This user is from outside of this forum
                          paco@infosec.exchange
                          wrote last edited by
                          #23

                          @KatyElphinstone Being unambiguous is not “black and white” nor is it limiting. One can have a huge rainbow of clearly defined colours. Blue is not red, yellow is not green. But there are limitless colours. I suspect sometimes people mistake a strong desire for clarity to be a refusal to accept complexity. Sometimes it’s just a stubborn effort to understand or organise the complexity.

                          I love the phrase “pattern-seeking missile.”

                          neverbeaten@mas.toN 1 Reply Last reply
                          0
                          • d1@autistics.lifeD d1@autistics.life

                            @KatyElphinstone 💯 on the vague re-assurances being worth Jack Squat

                            katyelphinstone@mas.toK This user is from outside of this forum
                            katyelphinstone@mas.toK This user is from outside of this forum
                            katyelphinstone@mas.to
                            wrote last edited by
                            #24

                            @d1

                            Yes, that too, exactly!

                            1 Reply Last reply
                            0
                            • katyelphinstone@mas.toK katyelphinstone@mas.to

                              I think our bones are right.

                              In fact, I think embracing a reasoning style based on data, patterns, and probability could be a huge bonus for everyone.

                              As – objectively speaking – it could pave the road for authenticity, equity, and justice to replace former murkiness, power plays, and empty promises.

                              End of 🧵

                              References below 👇

                              szczurtorebkowy@ohai.socialS This user is from outside of this forum
                              szczurtorebkowy@ohai.socialS This user is from outside of this forum
                              szczurtorebkowy@ohai.social
                              wrote last edited by
                              #25

                              @KatyElphinstone Great thread!

                              katyelphinstone@mas.toK 1 Reply Last reply
                              0
                              • katyelphinstone@mas.toK This user is from outside of this forum
                                katyelphinstone@mas.toK This user is from outside of this forum
                                katyelphinstone@mas.to
                                wrote last edited by
                                #26

                                @compost_funeral

                                Ah yes, so "stop being obstructive" ... or "no one else is complaining" ... or "you've gone out of my depth but instead of learning to swim I'm going to shut you down" ?

                                1 Reply Last reply
                                0
                                • katyelphinstone@mas.toK katyelphinstone@mas.to

                                  Orwell, G. (1946) “Politics and the English Language”
                                  https://www.orwellfoundation.com/the-orwell-foundation/orwell/essays-and-other-works/politics-and-the-english-language/
                                  - Shows how vague language protects cruelty & frames clarity as resistance to manipulation.

                                  Pellicano, E. & Burr, D. (2012) Bayesian explanation of autistic perception (UCL record)
                                  https://discovery.ucl.ac.uk/id/eprint/1476122/
                                  - A Bayesian framing of autistic perception showing how priors and uncertainty differ in shaping experience.

                                  End of refs.

                                  simondassow@masto.aiS This user is from outside of this forum
                                  simondassow@masto.aiS This user is from outside of this forum
                                  simondassow@masto.ai
                                  wrote last edited by
                                  #27

                                  @KatyElphinstone Amazing, couldn't agree more. And beyond autistic people I think it applies to most highly sensitive, deep thinking people. Because to us it's logic, which is needed to reason. Also why insensitive people don't like us a lot of times I think, as we reinforce their cognitive dissonance.

                                  jexner@tooting.chJ 1 Reply Last reply
                                  0
                                  • katyelphinstone@mas.toK katyelphinstone@mas.to

                                    I think our bones are right.

                                    In fact, I think embracing a reasoning style based on data, patterns, and probability could be a huge bonus for everyone.

                                    As – objectively speaking – it could pave the road for authenticity, equity, and justice to replace former murkiness, power plays, and empty promises.

                                    End of 🧵

                                    References below 👇

                                    dedicto@zeroes.caD This user is from outside of this forum
                                    dedicto@zeroes.caD This user is from outside of this forum
                                    dedicto@zeroes.ca
                                    wrote last edited by
                                    #28

                                    @KatyElphinstone If I may sum up:

                                    (1) Neurotypicals are the ones who are rigid, not #autistics! They have a hardwired set of assumptions and mental reflexes that facilitate efficient interaction with common environments (especially social environments) but can fail very badly outside their native domain. What I call the #EnvironmentalYoke.

                                    (2) Autistics appear to pay a heavy price for our disconnect from the hardwired social interactions at which neurotypicals are so facile, but it is a FIXED price, paid up front. In return we get a potentially unlimited income stream of principled insights into how the world — the WHOLE world, not just the socially relevant part — REALLY works.

                                    (3) Given (1) and (2), no wonder evolution keeps inflicting our kind on a bewildered neurotypical social world that sees nothing in us but weirdness and inefficiency.

                                    (4) Your references appear to be a gold mine of resources for giving detail and concreteness to the very general concept of an #EnvironmentalYoke.

                                    @autistics

                                    katyelphinstone@mas.toK 1 Reply Last reply
                                    0
                                    • sinvega@mas.toS sinvega@mas.to

                                      @KatyElphinstone if you have audhd this is true except you're also chained to a gremlin

                                      katyelphinstone@mas.toK This user is from outside of this forum
                                      katyelphinstone@mas.toK This user is from outside of this forum
                                      katyelphinstone@mas.to
                                      wrote last edited by
                                      #29

                                      @sinvega

                                      Aarrgh that sounds tough!

                                      1 Reply Last reply
                                      0
                                      • katyelphinstone@mas.toK katyelphinstone@mas.to

                                        Subject: Autistic ‘black and white’ thinking.

                                        It's framed as a deficit often seen in autism, but... is it that simple?

                                        Autistic people are traditionally criticized for our inflexibility, or cognitive rigidity.

                                        But I think this isn’t the whole picture.

                                        To start with what we know, here are ten things we autistic people generally have in common (refs at the end of the thread):

                                        ⬇️

                                        #Autism #Neurodivergent #ActuallyAutistic #AuDHD #Neurodiversity

                                        zappes@mastodon.onlineZ This user is from outside of this forum
                                        zappes@mastodon.onlineZ This user is from outside of this forum
                                        zappes@mastodon.online
                                        wrote last edited by
                                        #30

                                        @KatyElphinstone I am of the unshakeable conviction that we may be different, but neither better nor worse. Put us in the right place and we'll flourish, put us in the wrong one and we won't. Just like anybody else.

                                        katyelphinstone@mas.toK 1 Reply Last reply
                                        0
                                        • katyelphinstone@mas.toK katyelphinstone@mas.to

                                          1. Autistic people like to base our positions and decisions on data.

                                          2. We’re into justice, and fairness.

                                          3. And logic (which is, I feel, a good strategy for bringing about more fairness).

                                          4. We're not comfortable trusting reassurances without evidence.

                                          5. We like clarity. Lack of clarity can make us anxious.

                                          6. We think probabilistically / statistically.

                                          ⬇️

                                          temporal_spider@masto.aiT This user is from outside of this forum
                                          temporal_spider@masto.aiT This user is from outside of this forum
                                          temporal_spider@masto.ai
                                          wrote last edited by
                                          #31

                                          @KatyElphinstone I love this whole list, and feel very seen just reading it. Number 5 is an often overlooked fact, and I run into it sometimes. Empty assurances bug me, especially from a stranger or a meme. I feel like people deploy those when they're uncomfortable with another's suffering and don't know what else to say. So they crank out a platitude and get their dopamine rush, feeling like a good person, but don't actually help in any way.

                                          edit - I meant 4, not 5.

                                          katyelphinstone@mas.toK 1 Reply Last reply
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