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  3. Subject: Autistic ‘black and white’ thinking.

Subject: Autistic ‘black and white’ thinking.

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neurodiversityaudhdactuallyautistineurodivergentautism
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  • katyelphinstone@mas.toK katyelphinstone@mas.to

    Refs:
    Arendt, H. Truth and Politics
    https://german.yale.edu/sites/default/files/arendt.truth_and_politicslying_in_politics.pdf
    - Explores why factual truth is politically fragile, and how organised lying distorts shared reality.

    Beasant, L. et al. (2023) autistic adults’ views on RCT randomisation and blinding (open access, PMC)
    https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC11134970/
    - Here, autistic adults emphasised the need for clear explanations of how decisions are made.

    more below👇

    katyelphinstone@mas.toK This user is from outside of this forum
    katyelphinstone@mas.toK This user is from outside of this forum
    katyelphinstone@mas.to
    wrote last edited by
    #16

    Bloom, P. Against Empathy: The Case for Rational Compassion
    - Argues empathy can be biased and spotlight-driven, and defends rational compassion as a better moral guide.

    Demetriou, E.A. et al. (2018) executive function meta-analysis (Molecular Psychiatry)
    https://www.nature.com/articles/mp201775
    - Meta-analysis showing executive-function differences in autism relating to flexibility.

    more below 👇

    katyelphinstone@mas.toK 1 Reply Last reply
    0
    • katyelphinstone@mas.toK katyelphinstone@mas.to

      4: Are we right not to ‘just trust’?

      Many neurotypical social systems run on:
      - Emotional smoothing
      - Implicit trust
      - Status-based reassurance
      - Norm enforcement through vibe rather than data

      If you’ve repeatedly experienced (and many autistic people have; refs at the end):
      - Broken promises
      - Social insecurity and unpredictability
      - Rule inconsistencies and injustices

      Then vague reassurance doesn’t reduce uncertainty – it increases it!

      ⬇️

      d1@autistics.lifeD This user is from outside of this forum
      d1@autistics.lifeD This user is from outside of this forum
      d1@autistics.life
      wrote last edited by
      #17

      @KatyElphinstone 💯 on the vague re-assurances being worth Jack Squat

      katyelphinstone@mas.toK 1 Reply Last reply
      0
      • katyelphinstone@mas.toK katyelphinstone@mas.to

        Bloom, P. Against Empathy: The Case for Rational Compassion
        - Argues empathy can be biased and spotlight-driven, and defends rational compassion as a better moral guide.

        Demetriou, E.A. et al. (2018) executive function meta-analysis (Molecular Psychiatry)
        https://www.nature.com/articles/mp201775
        - Meta-analysis showing executive-function differences in autism relating to flexibility.

        more below 👇

        katyelphinstone@mas.toK This user is from outside of this forum
        katyelphinstone@mas.toK This user is from outside of this forum
        katyelphinstone@mas.to
        wrote last edited by
        #18

        Farmer at el. (2017) consistent decision-making in autism (open PDF copy)
        https://docs.autismresearchcentre.com/papers/2017_Farmer_People-with-ASCs-make-more-consistent-decisions.pdf
        - Finds autistic people to make more consistent choices in a decoy-effect decision task.

        Farmer, P. Pathologies of Power: Health, Human Rights, and the New War on the Poor
        - How ‘structural violence’ produces suffering & why naming power works towards real-world change.

        Freire, P. Pedagogy of the Oppressed
        - Connects oppression & liberation to social, learning, & language frameworks

        more below 👇

        katyelphinstone@mas.toK 1 Reply Last reply
        0
        • katyelphinstone@mas.toK katyelphinstone@mas.to

          Farmer at el. (2017) consistent decision-making in autism (open PDF copy)
          https://docs.autismresearchcentre.com/papers/2017_Farmer_People-with-ASCs-make-more-consistent-decisions.pdf
          - Finds autistic people to make more consistent choices in a decoy-effect decision task.

          Farmer, P. Pathologies of Power: Health, Human Rights, and the New War on the Poor
          - How ‘structural violence’ produces suffering & why naming power works towards real-world change.

          Freire, P. Pedagogy of the Oppressed
          - Connects oppression & liberation to social, learning, & language frameworks

          more below 👇

          katyelphinstone@mas.toK This user is from outside of this forum
          katyelphinstone@mas.toK This user is from outside of this forum
          katyelphinstone@mas.to
          wrote last edited by
          #19

          Fricker, M. Epistemic Injustice: Power and the Ethics of Knowing
          - Defines how power wrongs people, incl. how society lacks concepts to describe harms.

          Hollocks et al. (2025). Cognitive flexibility mediates the associations between perceived stress, social camouflaging and mental health challenges in autistic adults. Autism Research, 18(8), 1595–1607. https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1002/aur.70061
          - Higher stress in autistic people was linked to worse anxiety/depression & more rigid thinking.

          more below 👇

          katyelphinstone@mas.toK 1 Reply Last reply
          0
          • katyelphinstone@mas.toK katyelphinstone@mas.to

            Fricker, M. Epistemic Injustice: Power and the Ethics of Knowing
            - Defines how power wrongs people, incl. how society lacks concepts to describe harms.

            Hollocks et al. (2025). Cognitive flexibility mediates the associations between perceived stress, social camouflaging and mental health challenges in autistic adults. Autism Research, 18(8), 1595–1607. https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1002/aur.70061
            - Higher stress in autistic people was linked to worse anxiety/depression & more rigid thinking.

            more below 👇

            katyelphinstone@mas.toK This user is from outside of this forum
            katyelphinstone@mas.toK This user is from outside of this forum
            katyelphinstone@mas.to
            wrote last edited by
            #20

            Jameel, L. et al. (2015) clear-cut vs ambiguous social rules (UCL PDF)
            https://discovery.ucl.ac.uk/1469956/1/Jameel%20et%20al.%20Great%20Expectations.pdf
            - Looks at whether social rules are clear-cut or ambiguous and measures responses as a direct test of rule clarity.

            Jin, P. et al. (2020) fairness games in autism (open access, PMC)
            https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC7137314/
            - Uses economic fairness tasks to compare fairness-related choices in autistic and non-autistic groups.

            more below 👇

            katyelphinstone@mas.toK 1 Reply Last reply
            0
            • katyelphinstone@mas.toK katyelphinstone@mas.to

              Jameel, L. et al. (2015) clear-cut vs ambiguous social rules (UCL PDF)
              https://discovery.ucl.ac.uk/1469956/1/Jameel%20et%20al.%20Great%20Expectations.pdf
              - Looks at whether social rules are clear-cut or ambiguous and measures responses as a direct test of rule clarity.

              Jin, P. et al. (2020) fairness games in autism (open access, PMC)
              https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC7137314/
              - Uses economic fairness tasks to compare fairness-related choices in autistic and non-autistic groups.

              more below 👇

              katyelphinstone@mas.toK This user is from outside of this forum
              katyelphinstone@mas.toK This user is from outside of this forum
              katyelphinstone@mas.to
              wrote last edited by
              #21

              Karvelis, P. et al. (2018) Bayesian visual integration and autistic traits (open access, PMC)
              https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC5966274/
              - Tests autistic traits in Bayesian integration and links traits to stronger perception via more precise sensory information.

              Li, J. et al. (2014) moral judgement and cooperation in autism (open access, PMC)
              https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC3945921/
              - Relates moral judgements in autism to cooperation behaviour in a game context.

              more below 👇

              katyelphinstone@mas.toK gra@hachyderm.ioG 2 Replies Last reply
              0
              • katyelphinstone@mas.toK katyelphinstone@mas.to

                Karvelis, P. et al. (2018) Bayesian visual integration and autistic traits (open access, PMC)
                https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC5966274/
                - Tests autistic traits in Bayesian integration and links traits to stronger perception via more precise sensory information.

                Li, J. et al. (2014) moral judgement and cooperation in autism (open access, PMC)
                https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC3945921/
                - Relates moral judgements in autism to cooperation behaviour in a game context.

                more below 👇

                katyelphinstone@mas.toK This user is from outside of this forum
                katyelphinstone@mas.toK This user is from outside of this forum
                katyelphinstone@mas.to
                wrote last edited by
                #22

                Orwell, G. (1946) “Politics and the English Language”
                https://www.orwellfoundation.com/the-orwell-foundation/orwell/essays-and-other-works/politics-and-the-english-language/
                - Shows how vague language protects cruelty & frames clarity as resistance to manipulation.

                Pellicano, E. & Burr, D. (2012) Bayesian explanation of autistic perception (UCL record)
                https://discovery.ucl.ac.uk/id/eprint/1476122/
                - A Bayesian framing of autistic perception showing how priors and uncertainty differ in shaping experience.

                End of refs.

                simondassow@masto.aiS sci_fi_fangirl@hessen.socialS 2 Replies Last reply
                0
                • katyelphinstone@mas.toK katyelphinstone@mas.to

                  7. We can be a bit like pattern-seeking missiles.

                  8. When new evidence comes to light, we’re generally adaptable – even if it takes a minute.

                  9. That said, we may dig in our heels about things (like change) when we’re anxious or scared.

                  10. We like gathering data, and interactions that are a true exchange of information.

                  But none of this amounts to cognitive rigidity or ‘black and white’ thinking 🤔

                  ⬇️

                  paco@infosec.exchangeP This user is from outside of this forum
                  paco@infosec.exchangeP This user is from outside of this forum
                  paco@infosec.exchange
                  wrote last edited by
                  #23

                  @KatyElphinstone Being unambiguous is not “black and white” nor is it limiting. One can have a huge rainbow of clearly defined colours. Blue is not red, yellow is not green. But there are limitless colours. I suspect sometimes people mistake a strong desire for clarity to be a refusal to accept complexity. Sometimes it’s just a stubborn effort to understand or organise the complexity.

                  I love the phrase “pattern-seeking missile.”

                  neverbeaten@mas.toN 1 Reply Last reply
                  0
                  • d1@autistics.lifeD d1@autistics.life

                    @KatyElphinstone 💯 on the vague re-assurances being worth Jack Squat

                    katyelphinstone@mas.toK This user is from outside of this forum
                    katyelphinstone@mas.toK This user is from outside of this forum
                    katyelphinstone@mas.to
                    wrote last edited by
                    #24

                    @d1

                    Yes, that too, exactly!

                    1 Reply Last reply
                    0
                    • katyelphinstone@mas.toK katyelphinstone@mas.to

                      I think our bones are right.

                      In fact, I think embracing a reasoning style based on data, patterns, and probability could be a huge bonus for everyone.

                      As – objectively speaking – it could pave the road for authenticity, equity, and justice to replace former murkiness, power plays, and empty promises.

                      End of 🧵

                      References below 👇

                      szczurtorebkowy@ohai.socialS This user is from outside of this forum
                      szczurtorebkowy@ohai.socialS This user is from outside of this forum
                      szczurtorebkowy@ohai.social
                      wrote last edited by
                      #25

                      @KatyElphinstone Great thread!

                      katyelphinstone@mas.toK 1 Reply Last reply
                      0
                      • katyelphinstone@mas.toK This user is from outside of this forum
                        katyelphinstone@mas.toK This user is from outside of this forum
                        katyelphinstone@mas.to
                        wrote last edited by
                        #26

                        @compost_funeral

                        Ah yes, so "stop being obstructive" ... or "no one else is complaining" ... or "you've gone out of my depth but instead of learning to swim I'm going to shut you down" ?

                        1 Reply Last reply
                        0
                        • katyelphinstone@mas.toK katyelphinstone@mas.to

                          Orwell, G. (1946) “Politics and the English Language”
                          https://www.orwellfoundation.com/the-orwell-foundation/orwell/essays-and-other-works/politics-and-the-english-language/
                          - Shows how vague language protects cruelty & frames clarity as resistance to manipulation.

                          Pellicano, E. & Burr, D. (2012) Bayesian explanation of autistic perception (UCL record)
                          https://discovery.ucl.ac.uk/id/eprint/1476122/
                          - A Bayesian framing of autistic perception showing how priors and uncertainty differ in shaping experience.

                          End of refs.

                          simondassow@masto.aiS This user is from outside of this forum
                          simondassow@masto.aiS This user is from outside of this forum
                          simondassow@masto.ai
                          wrote last edited by
                          #27

                          @KatyElphinstone Amazing, couldn't agree more. And beyond autistic people I think it applies to most highly sensitive, deep thinking people. Because to us it's logic, which is needed to reason. Also why insensitive people don't like us a lot of times I think, as we reinforce their cognitive dissonance.

                          jexner@tooting.chJ 1 Reply Last reply
                          0
                          • katyelphinstone@mas.toK katyelphinstone@mas.to

                            I think our bones are right.

                            In fact, I think embracing a reasoning style based on data, patterns, and probability could be a huge bonus for everyone.

                            As – objectively speaking – it could pave the road for authenticity, equity, and justice to replace former murkiness, power plays, and empty promises.

                            End of 🧵

                            References below 👇

                            dedicto@zeroes.caD This user is from outside of this forum
                            dedicto@zeroes.caD This user is from outside of this forum
                            dedicto@zeroes.ca
                            wrote last edited by
                            #28

                            @KatyElphinstone If I may sum up:

                            (1) Neurotypicals are the ones who are rigid, not #autistics! They have a hardwired set of assumptions and mental reflexes that facilitate efficient interaction with common environments (especially social environments) but can fail very badly outside their native domain. What I call the #EnvironmentalYoke.

                            (2) Autistics appear to pay a heavy price for our disconnect from the hardwired social interactions at which neurotypicals are so facile, but it is a FIXED price, paid up front. In return we get a potentially unlimited income stream of principled insights into how the world — the WHOLE world, not just the socially relevant part — REALLY works.

                            (3) Given (1) and (2), no wonder evolution keeps inflicting our kind on a bewildered neurotypical social world that sees nothing in us but weirdness and inefficiency.

                            (4) Your references appear to be a gold mine of resources for giving detail and concreteness to the very general concept of an #EnvironmentalYoke.

                            @autistics

                            katyelphinstone@mas.toK 1 Reply Last reply
                            0
                            • sinvega@mas.toS sinvega@mas.to

                              @KatyElphinstone if you have audhd this is true except you're also chained to a gremlin

                              katyelphinstone@mas.toK This user is from outside of this forum
                              katyelphinstone@mas.toK This user is from outside of this forum
                              katyelphinstone@mas.to
                              wrote last edited by
                              #29

                              @sinvega

                              Aarrgh that sounds tough!

                              1 Reply Last reply
                              0
                              • katyelphinstone@mas.toK katyelphinstone@mas.to

                                Subject: Autistic ‘black and white’ thinking.

                                It's framed as a deficit often seen in autism, but... is it that simple?

                                Autistic people are traditionally criticized for our inflexibility, or cognitive rigidity.

                                But I think this isn’t the whole picture.

                                To start with what we know, here are ten things we autistic people generally have in common (refs at the end of the thread):

                                ⬇️

                                #Autism #Neurodivergent #ActuallyAutistic #AuDHD #Neurodiversity

                                zappes@mastodon.onlineZ This user is from outside of this forum
                                zappes@mastodon.onlineZ This user is from outside of this forum
                                zappes@mastodon.online
                                wrote last edited by
                                #30

                                @KatyElphinstone I am of the unshakeable conviction that we may be different, but neither better nor worse. Put us in the right place and we'll flourish, put us in the wrong one and we won't. Just like anybody else.

                                katyelphinstone@mas.toK 1 Reply Last reply
                                0
                                • katyelphinstone@mas.toK katyelphinstone@mas.to

                                  1. Autistic people like to base our positions and decisions on data.

                                  2. We’re into justice, and fairness.

                                  3. And logic (which is, I feel, a good strategy for bringing about more fairness).

                                  4. We're not comfortable trusting reassurances without evidence.

                                  5. We like clarity. Lack of clarity can make us anxious.

                                  6. We think probabilistically / statistically.

                                  ⬇️

                                  temporal_spider@masto.aiT This user is from outside of this forum
                                  temporal_spider@masto.aiT This user is from outside of this forum
                                  temporal_spider@masto.ai
                                  wrote last edited by
                                  #31

                                  @KatyElphinstone I love this whole list, and feel very seen just reading it. Number 5 is an often overlooked fact, and I run into it sometimes. Empty assurances bug me, especially from a stranger or a meme. I feel like people deploy those when they're uncomfortable with another's suffering and don't know what else to say. So they crank out a platitude and get their dopamine rush, feeling like a good person, but don't actually help in any way.

                                  edit - I meant 4, not 5.

                                  katyelphinstone@mas.toK 1 Reply Last reply
                                  0
                                  • katyelphinstone@mas.toK katyelphinstone@mas.to

                                    Subject: Autistic ‘black and white’ thinking.

                                    It's framed as a deficit often seen in autism, but... is it that simple?

                                    Autistic people are traditionally criticized for our inflexibility, or cognitive rigidity.

                                    But I think this isn’t the whole picture.

                                    To start with what we know, here are ten things we autistic people generally have in common (refs at the end of the thread):

                                    ⬇️

                                    #Autism #Neurodivergent #ActuallyAutistic #AuDHD #Neurodiversity

                                    scott@sfba.socialS This user is from outside of this forum
                                    scott@sfba.socialS This user is from outside of this forum
                                    scott@sfba.social
                                    wrote last edited by
                                    #32

                                    @KatyElphinstone This entire thread is so thoughtful and beautifully written — with references, even! Thank you. ❤️ Lots resonates here, but my very favorite phrasing was “uncertainty is explicitly modeled rather than socially smoothed over.” 😅👏👏👏

                                    1 Reply Last reply
                                    0
                                    • katyelphinstone@mas.toK katyelphinstone@mas.to

                                      I think our bones are right.

                                      In fact, I think embracing a reasoning style based on data, patterns, and probability could be a huge bonus for everyone.

                                      As – objectively speaking – it could pave the road for authenticity, equity, and justice to replace former murkiness, power plays, and empty promises.

                                      End of 🧵

                                      References below 👇

                                      jessica@gts.woollybear.xyzJ This user is from outside of this forum
                                      jessica@gts.woollybear.xyzJ This user is from outside of this forum
                                      jessica@gts.woollybear.xyz
                                      wrote last edited by
                                      #33

                                      @KatyElphinstone I am glad to hear I am not the only autistic person who thinks this way. I thought that all autistic people did, until recently I picked up a book of Greta Thunberg speeches, and I was confused when the second speech said, "I have Asperger's syndrome, and to me, almost everything is black or white." I thought back to when I was living with my parents, and they would get annoyed at me for saying things like, "I think its important to acknowledge that while that's effectively true in this case, it isn't technically the truth, and would lead to the wrong decision in some cases." Like, what could be more grey lol.

                                      katyelphinstone@mas.toK callisto@disabled.socialC 3 Replies Last reply
                                      0
                                      • katyelphinstone@mas.toK katyelphinstone@mas.to

                                        4: Are we right not to ‘just trust’?

                                        Many neurotypical social systems run on:
                                        - Emotional smoothing
                                        - Implicit trust
                                        - Status-based reassurance
                                        - Norm enforcement through vibe rather than data

                                        If you’ve repeatedly experienced (and many autistic people have; refs at the end):
                                        - Broken promises
                                        - Social insecurity and unpredictability
                                        - Rule inconsistencies and injustices

                                        Then vague reassurance doesn’t reduce uncertainty – it increases it!

                                        ⬇️

                                        everythingalsocan@techhub.socialE This user is from outside of this forum
                                        everythingalsocan@techhub.socialE This user is from outside of this forum
                                        everythingalsocan@techhub.social
                                        wrote last edited by
                                        #34

                                        @KatyElphinstone That may be why traditional advertisement doesn't work on us - we simply don't trust it.

                                        Speaking for myself, no matter how promising an advertisement looks, I'll ignore it simply because it's advertisement. It's not a trustworthy source of information. Broken promises is all I'll ever expect from advertisement.

                                        (That framing would also indicate what type of advertisement does work: anything from a trustworthy source, for example product information or recommendations contained in articles or blog posts from authors we consider reliable.)

                                        katyelphinstone@mas.toK shinybat@zeroes.caS 2 Replies Last reply
                                        0
                                        • katyelphinstone@mas.toK katyelphinstone@mas.to

                                          4: Are we right not to ‘just trust’?

                                          Many neurotypical social systems run on:
                                          - Emotional smoothing
                                          - Implicit trust
                                          - Status-based reassurance
                                          - Norm enforcement through vibe rather than data

                                          If you’ve repeatedly experienced (and many autistic people have; refs at the end):
                                          - Broken promises
                                          - Social insecurity and unpredictability
                                          - Rule inconsistencies and injustices

                                          Then vague reassurance doesn’t reduce uncertainty – it increases it!

                                          ⬇️

                                          nellie_m@autisticpri.deN This user is from outside of this forum
                                          nellie_m@autisticpri.deN This user is from outside of this forum
                                          nellie_m@autisticpri.de
                                          wrote last edited by
                                          #35

                                          @KatyElphinstone

                                          - emotional smoothing by whom?
                                          - implicit trust in what?
                                          - norm enforcement through what kind of vibe?

                                          The hiding and staying at an „aloof“ distance that was interpreted as a characteristic of autistics is indeed a consequence of having been bitten not once, but over and over and over. Just like in that meme that says „I used to be a people person, but people ruined that for me“.

                                          It’s punishment that does that.

                                          Punishment for all the things you listed above, because they question hierarchy. They point out errors. And mistakes aren’t seen as necessary steps on the way, but as something that decreases your value, as bad, as something to be avoided because it weakens your status.

                                          We live in a culture that’s based on competition rather than cooperation. And the ones on top are males. It’s about hierarchy all the way down, and most people strive to become more powerful rather than more respectful.

                                          Our autistic out-of-the-box thinking is challenging. Those who are into hierarchy take any challenge as an attack, even personally, rather than an opportunity. They tend to interpret everything as an attack, even simple questions, because of their fear of failure, of losing status, and power.

                                          So, the way I see it, you’re right and I agree with everything you said - but you don’t say the quiet part out loud:

                                          - That emotional smoothing has a direction. It has to be done by those who have something to lose. By those afraid of escalation and punishment. Those further down in the hierarchy.

                                          - those higher up want implicit trust in their authority, which is based on power. On status. Because if it were based on expertise, they’d actually encourage others to think for themselves and guide them through challenges so both sides have a chance to learn from them.

                                          - and it’s norm enforcement through bribery for compliance on the pleasant side, and fear, intimidation and pain on the aversive side. Those are the basic control tools of patriarchy. This is why we see all that violence emerge once some power and hierarchy is challenged, rather than everyone take a step back and find a solution in a cooperative way that’s good for everyone. And we can see that in private as well as global scenarios. In ableism, racism, sexism… you name it.

                                          katyelphinstone@mas.toK nellie_m@autisticpri.deN 2 Replies Last reply
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