I found gas for less than $6 today and felt a little thrill, which tells me that maybe it's time to get an EV.
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I found gas for less than $6 today and felt a little thrill, which tells me that maybe it's time to get an EV. I am—obviously—not getting a Tesla, and I'd just like a reliable, regular EV that can fit a kid and a few friends. But the offerings in the US seem confusing and gimmicky. I don't want a big truck or an experimental mess full of panel gaps and slow charging. I don't want my feet nailed to the floor of some proprietary subscription HUD; I want to use CarPlay like a normal person
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@glyph The Ioniq 5 and 6 have both been very well reviewed and have a lot of satisfied customers. The 5 is a crossover, the 6 a sedan. They’re not perfect (they both have those recessed electric door handles), but they get closer than most alternatives. They’re both available in N performance models if you want a little spice.
People seem to like Polestar too, but the dealer network is much thinner and they go harder on the Tesla-style “it’s the future whether you like it or not” thing. (The Polestar 4 has no rear window; you see out back entirely through cameras.)
Rivian and Lucid are out there if you’re ready to spend more.
@glyph If you want a more basic option, I’d look at the Chevy Equinox and the Nissan Leaf. (The Equinox is GM, which means no CarPlay. Sigh.)
The Ford Mustang Mach-E isn’t really a Mustang (I will die on this hill, sorry) but seems fine for what it is. There are sportier GT and Rally models now.
You can probably find a good deal on a Volkswagen ID.4 if you like disaster movies. The ID.Buzz seems at least more reliable, but is crazy expensive for what you get. Will turn heads, though.
~ end of unsolicited car advice ~
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@chrisjrn I was really hoping for more physical controls for climate and such, not an ad telling me I can beg Gemini to do it for me. But I see *some* buttons and the recommendation is hugely valuable
Chevy Bolt EUV used. Has Android Auto. Also has quite a few actual physical buttons.
Main downside is it uses the older-style charging cable and everything is moving to standardize on Tesla-style.
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@bengerman @glyph I've published the spreadsheet on Google Docs as I've had issues with document web viewer on my Nextcloud instance.
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I've been putting this off for several years both because it's good to not buy unnecessary stuff but also because everything seems to have some huge bizarre inexplicable downside, or be mind-bogglingly expensive and depreciate at a rate of ten dollars a second. And why don't these things all have photovoltaics on their roofs yet?
@glyph assuming you strapped one of my shiny new rooftop solar panels to the top of your car, you'd get 435W of power under ideal conditions. At 140 MPGe, each mile of range requires 241Wh. So that panel would get you about 2 miles of range per hour of direct summer sun under perfect conditions. It's just way too little power to matter.
That panel is 1x1.8 meters which is probably about the limit on usable area for most normal-sized car roofs, without wrecking the aerodynamics by making the entire roof flat.
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@bengerman @glyph I've published the spreadsheet on Google Docs as I've had issues with document web viewer on my Nextcloud instance.
@bengerman @glyph I ended up ordering a Subaru Trailseeker (which is the "twin" of the Toyota bZ Woodland) since it is very wagon-like, coming from an A4 allroad wagon and all. It should be arriving in the next week or two.
It does have some subscription options, but they are not mandatory if you're planning on using navigation apps via Apple CarPlay or Android Auto.
It doesn't have all of the physical controls that I would love, especially for the HVAC controls, but it has normal exterior and interior door handles. I don't care if it has a frunk or not (it doesn't) since it wouldn't useful for my mom given the hood/bonnet height of most taller EVs.
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@mattdm @glyph @chrisjrn There’s now also the new Bolt, but GM means no CarPlay (I don’t understand it either). It at least does come with native NACS/Tesla-style charging though, no adapter required.
The New 2027 Bolt | Electric Car | Chevrolet
The Chevy Bolt is back and better than ever with its fast charging, comfort-focused interior, enhanced tech, and updated safety features.
Chevrolet (www.chevrolet.com)
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@bengerman @glyph I ended up ordering a Subaru Trailseeker (which is the "twin" of the Toyota bZ Woodland) since it is very wagon-like, coming from an A4 allroad wagon and all. It should be arriving in the next week or two.
It does have some subscription options, but they are not mandatory if you're planning on using navigation apps via Apple CarPlay or Android Auto.
It doesn't have all of the physical controls that I would love, especially for the HVAC controls, but it has normal exterior and interior door handles. I don't care if it has a frunk or not (it doesn't) since it wouldn't useful for my mom given the hood/bonnet height of most taller EVs.
@bengerman @glyph Tesla was never on my list even before Musk went full fash.
Android Auto and Apple CarPlay were absolute musts for me, so that also meant Rivian and all GM EVs were off the table (Honda Prologue still has it, but it's horrible packaged thanks to the same GM Ultium platform and chassis shared with the Blazer EV).
Even when I started to veer towards the Trailseeker late last year, Volkwagen and Audi had already lost me with less-than-stellar combination of pricing, efficiency and packaging of the ID.4/Q4. Don't get me started on the A6/Q6 e-tron.
The non-standard exterior door handles on the Ford Mustang Mach-E and Ford decontenting some of the trims made it less appealing, even if the estimated range numbers were pretty decent.
The Hyundai Ioniq 5 and the Kia EV6 had been very high on my list, though there was still the uncertainty of the ICCU reliability/fix, the non-standard exterior door handles aren't great, and driving position and comfort both myself and my mom weren't impressing us much.
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@glyph Hyundai Kona are crazy affordable used, and true 250+ mile cars. The Ultimate trim option is very nice.
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I've been putting this off for several years both because it's good to not buy unnecessary stuff but also because everything seems to have some huge bizarre inexplicable downside, or be mind-bogglingly expensive and depreciate at a rate of ten dollars a second. And why don't these things all have photovoltaics on their roofs yet?
@glyph i assume the charging speed from just solar panels doesn't make up for the weight of the solar panels yet
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@glyph i assume the charging speed from just solar panels doesn't make up for the weight of the solar panels yet
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@jalefkowit I was actually about to post "Is the Ioniq what I want?" and I guess perhaps that was prescient
@glyph @jalefkowit another vote for the ioniq 5. We're happy with ours after 3 years and you can buy the same car for half what it was new these days, which is a wild deal.
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I found gas for less than $6 today and felt a little thrill, which tells me that maybe it's time to get an EV. I am—obviously—not getting a Tesla, and I'd just like a reliable, regular EV that can fit a kid and a few friends. But the offerings in the US seem confusing and gimmicky. I don't want a big truck or an experimental mess full of panel gaps and slow charging. I don't want my feet nailed to the floor of some proprietary subscription HUD; I want to use CarPlay like a normal person
I bought a 2024 Nissan leaf a few months back. Physical knobs for the climate control, physical volume knob, and works well with Android auto.
I've been just using the Level 1 charger the dealer gave us and it's been plenty
I know the battery pack doesn't have the best cooling, but as long as I'm sensible about things that shouldn't cause me trouble in my normal daily drive.
Really makes me wish I'd bought a used leaf ages ago when I first floated the idea.
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@glyph i assume the charging speed from just solar panels doesn't make up for the weight of the solar panels yet
@aeva @glyph https://xkcd.com/1924/
Battery electric cars generally fall under
- regular chance to recharge/swap batteries (plug it into a relatively normal wall outlet overnight, increasing build out of EV charging infrastructure elsewhere)
- hot to the touch in operation (energy density for solar panels isn't there + there is less space on the roof of a normal car than you really need + most cars are not terribly efficient at using their energy)
- empty space nearby (if we insist on building giant parking lots everywhere, we could at least shade them with solar panel structures, though making that happen would be a pretty big investment by a lot of entities)
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@aeva @glyph https://xkcd.com/1924/
Battery electric cars generally fall under
- regular chance to recharge/swap batteries (plug it into a relatively normal wall outlet overnight, increasing build out of EV charging infrastructure elsewhere)
- hot to the touch in operation (energy density for solar panels isn't there + there is less space on the roof of a normal car than you really need + most cars are not terribly efficient at using their energy)
- empty space nearby (if we insist on building giant parking lots everywhere, we could at least shade them with solar panel structures, though making that happen would be a pretty big investment by a lot of entities)
@aeva @glyph the only serious-ish car I've seen with solar panels on top is Aptera - which really only gets away with solar panels because the entire vehicle is designed for ludicrous efficiency from the the very start, arguably to the major detriment of its usability as a car outside of places like California with Perfect Weather Basically All The Time
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I found gas for less than $6 today and felt a little thrill, which tells me that maybe it's time to get an EV. I am—obviously—not getting a Tesla, and I'd just like a reliable, regular EV that can fit a kid and a few friends. But the offerings in the US seem confusing and gimmicky. I don't want a big truck or an experimental mess full of panel gaps and slow charging. I don't want my feet nailed to the floor of some proprietary subscription HUD; I want to use CarPlay like a normal person
@glyph look at Kia. Their EV offerings are surprisingly compelling.
(My gf has an EV6 and I had a Niro.)
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I found gas for less than $6 today and felt a little thrill, which tells me that maybe it's time to get an EV. I am—obviously—not getting a Tesla, and I'd just like a reliable, regular EV that can fit a kid and a few friends. But the offerings in the US seem confusing and gimmicky. I don't want a big truck or an experimental mess full of panel gaps and slow charging. I don't want my feet nailed to the floor of some proprietary subscription HUD; I want to use CarPlay like a normal person
@glyph VW e-Golf owner for 6 years. People get hung up on charging speeds too much IMO but I also don’t know your situation so all I can say is I’ve really liked the car. CarPlay works and I have buttons galore. Used prices are very reasonable now.
TeslaBjorn’s YouTube channel has many 1000km road trips on many (most?) EVs in Norway weather and he has Google Sheets with data on charging speeds and trip times. He also has data on used EVs.
You may enjoy this.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5NG4hycq8n0 -
I found gas for less than $6 today and felt a little thrill, which tells me that maybe it's time to get an EV. I am—obviously—not getting a Tesla, and I'd just like a reliable, regular EV that can fit a kid and a few friends. But the offerings in the US seem confusing and gimmicky. I don't want a big truck or an experimental mess full of panel gaps and slow charging. I don't want my feet nailed to the floor of some proprietary subscription HUD; I want to use CarPlay like a normal person
@glyph I can't vouch for the new model, but our 2017 bolt is still going strong (minus 15-20% of the battery, but it's been almost 10 years) the only thing that makes me consider upgrading is the slow DC charging, but we only take 2-3 road trips a year, so an upgrade hardly seems worth it. EVs are stupid reliable, handle well, and save $$$ if you have access to charging at home. (Also, unless you commute long distances to work every day, you can probably get away with trickle charging)
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@glyph I have an Ioniq5 and it (as well as its cousins the Ioniq6 and EV6/9) ticks all those boxes. I love it, best car I’ve ever owned.
@glyph Another +1 for the Ioniq5. I still driving is terrible and avoid it when I can but I am glad to have the ease of charging and safety features when I have to.
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@glyph Polestar 2. Used is probably fine.
Happy to make other recommendations, but that's what we have and we love it.
