i think society would be better if they just handed out money to people no questions asked, but i suppose it's true some people might use it to be happy
-
@Robotistry @raven @mym I'm not too worried about it. There will be a steady supply of pickup artists so long as there's sweet toy grabage trucks, just like in real life. Likewise, the people who work for the water reclamation department in Chicago already have batmanesque origin stories motivating them so I doubt that would stop. I'm sure the medical records thing certainly couldn't get any worse at least.
@Robotistry @raven @mym also most big projects in this country that actually benefit the people seem to happen outside the framework of crapitalism anyway
-
@aeva i place her as one of the main reasons why we have this stupid "government debt = household debt" nonsense, especially on this wet rock of dissapointment and depression...
@technicalotter yeah i don't see how you are drawing the connection here from my 4 am posts proposing that we effectively end the concept of money for the benefit of the people
-
they literally can't run out of money they're the government they can just make more of it "but what about inflation" buddy we literally cannot run out of numbers
Yes, the federal government creates money in the act of spending it. The only thing that’s needed to manage the size of the money supply is tax. Or you could just have money expire after three months or just like loyalty points. There would be a total amount you could have laying around.
There are lots of people with way too much government money. Elon Musk is one of the best examples of this.
-
"but how will we force people to work without the threat of poverty" buddy it's not like I'm gonna stop making video games
I always considered that argument to be a bunch of bullshit. People won’t do bullshit jobs but most people do hobbies like you know gardening and making furniture and shit like that. If you have the time and resources to figure out something that you think is important or useful, you can find a group of people with like mine and with community consensus, just go ahead and do it.
I don’t buy the people will just do nothing, especially when they gain a measure of esteem for doing it
-
@aeva Are there any political ideologies that are pro inflation? It seems like all it does (assuming labour costs keep up) is devalue cash assets, which is another way of saying someone else's debt. And that seems good actually?
@Farbs if people's wages were also always adjusted for inflation the effect is you save less money (at least, if you don't invest it in something or convert it into an asset), but your debts vanish faster. however right now almost nobody gets a guaranteed cost of living adjustment like that so inflation just ends up slowly starving everybody
-
I always considered that argument to be a bunch of bullshit. People won’t do bullshit jobs but most people do hobbies like you know gardening and making furniture and shit like that. If you have the time and resources to figure out something that you think is important or useful, you can find a group of people with like mine and with community consensus, just go ahead and do it.
I don’t buy the people will just do nothing, especially when they gain a measure of esteem for doing it
none of these arguments were ever serious. They are literally fake news and gas lighting to justify the billionaire class printing money for themselves.
i know you have hope big politics will defund billionaires and create UBI, but i think we have to act and use money they cant print, nothing else will work - its just wasting time and letting them continue, ..but i guess you have your hope and i agree with the goals
Have you ever considered that politics wont help?
-
@technicalotter yeah i don't see how you are drawing the connection here from my 4 am posts proposing that we effectively end the concept of money for the benefit of the people
@aeva well not that's the point - maggie thought we would run out of numbers and tricked an entire country into believing i!
-
@aeva well not that's the point - maggie thought we would run out of numbers and tricked an entire country into believing i!
@aeva also this is the neurospicy speaking so who knows
-
@Farbs if people's wages were also always adjusted for inflation the effect is you save less money (at least, if you don't invest it in something or convert it into an asset), but your debts vanish faster. however right now almost nobody gets a guaranteed cost of living adjustment like that so inflation just ends up slowly starving everybody
@aeva True, and that sucks.
-
@aeva Inflation isn't a bad thing! It's stagnation of wages relative to inflation that causes problems, but if someone is handing out money so that people can live and be happy without needing to have their souls crushed in the gears of capitalism, then they can just hand out more of it!
Problem solved!
@xgranade @aeva it's basically just a way of using some intermediary to figure out whose efforts someone decided were worth rewarding with access to more supplies to keep doing their thing
i guess some approaches are to get rid of the number and some involve giving everyone number
but yes, people generally should be able to live
-
they literally can't run out of money they're the government they can just make more of it "but what about inflation" buddy we literally cannot run out of numbers
@aeva yeah let's take it from that one rich guys bank account that holds like 50B
-
@aeva True, and that sucks.
@Farbs I'm fortunate enough to work for a studio that gives everyone yearly cost of living adjustments that account for inflation and other things. If everyone had that we'd be living in a much happier world.
-
none of these arguments were ever serious. They are literally fake news and gas lighting to justify the billionaire class printing money for themselves.
i know you have hope big politics will defund billionaires and create UBI, but i think we have to act and use money they cant print, nothing else will work - its just wasting time and letting them continue, ..but i guess you have your hope and i agree with the goals
Have you ever considered that politics wont help?
When have I ever suggested that big politics was a solution? You and I agree on similar goals, but I look at money is completely different animal from the way you think about it.
For me, the fundamentals were coming the way you're thinking is that controlling the amount of money is the same as limiting oligarchy. Oligarchy is about politics, not commodities. Commodities are the medium.
-
@Farbs I'm fortunate enough to work for a studio that gives everyone yearly cost of living adjustments that account for inflation and other things. If everyone had that we'd be living in a much happier world.
@Farbs if you don't have that and your yearly raise (assuming you even get one) doesn't make up for inflation what you're actually getting is a yearly pay cut on the sly.
-
I'll happily spend 40 hours a week doing science. What really grinds my gears is all the bureaucracy BS hustling for grant money.
Just give me a lab and a yearly total budget of ~250000€ for buying stuff, paying contractors and paying my salary from, and allow me to carry any leftover into the next fiscal year. I'll churn out royalty free medical imaging tech.
@datenwolf @dalias @aeva would you go clean streets if they offered you money for that instead? I guess the amount is not relevant because everybody who makes food just does it cause they want to
-
@datenwolf @dalias @aeva would you go clean streets if they offered you money for that instead? I guess the amount is not relevant because everybody who makes food just does it cause they want to
@Profpatsch @datenwolf @dalias I absolutely would go for walks to pick up trash in my neighborhood if I had more free time. One of my local friends likes to fantasize about running his own burger restaurant. I suspect if he had the means and the stability to do so he'd probably give it a shot.
-
@datenwolf @dalias @aeva would you go clean streets if they offered you money for that instead? I guess the amount is not relevant because everybody who makes food just does it cause they want to
@Profpatsch @dalias @aeva it's not about the money.
It's about the amount of grant hustling I've to do. And I think that there genuinely are people who enjoy cleaning streets.
And for that matter, a lot of years ago I visited an open house event of the Munich municipal waste water management, and I actually thought that it was a pretty interesting workplace.
-
ok i saw that post going around about how nobody can fucking read but come on guys this is not at all the status quo of neoliberal economics take your head out of your ass
I wonder what's going on over in the bizarre parallel universe where american libraries are for-profit institutions and Ben Franklin established a tradition of voluntary sanitation jobs instead.
[meanwhile in the bizarre parallel universe where american libraries are for-profit institutions and Ben Franklin established a tradition of voluntary sanitation jobs instead] my fellow armchair philosophers, concerned: but who will organize books without the threat of poverty to motivate them?
-
When have I ever suggested that big politics was a solution? You and I agree on similar goals, but I look at money is completely different animal from the way you think about it.
For me, the fundamentals were coming the way you're thinking is that controlling the amount of money is the same as limiting oligarchy. Oligarchy is about politics, not commodities. Commodities are the medium.
i am all for mutual aid networks, worker coops, etc... to build an open source economy and open source supply chain and organize bottom up to create a living alternative to epstein cqpitalist class oligarchy controlled mega corporations.
BUT, its not that ppl havent tried worker coops, etc... in the past. This will only work if we ALSO in parallel turn off their biggest class privilege which is money printing, otherwise they will use it to undermine alternatives
️
