AI Controls (formerly 'kill switch') are landing in today's Firefox Nightly, and will land with Firefox 148 later this month.
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@raymaccarthy @plwt fwiw Vivaldi does have AI features like translation, and it even sends text to the cloud to perform that translation.
@firefoxwebdevs @plwt
I've not used Vivaldi since last year:
Vivaldi AI – Qwant Search
Fast, reliable answers and still in trust: Qwant does not store your search data, does not sell your personal data and is hosted in Europe.
Qwant (www.qwant.com)
They claim to not have AI.
I use copy / paste to https://libretranslate.com/ if I need translation.
There is no Cloud. Only other people's servers!
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@firefoxwebdevs@mastodon.social
Won't see features
I've seen that before with Brave. Their "complete removal of Leo" means "Remove UI elements from the user".
I am not convinced.@sarah I'm not sure what we can do to convince you other than hold the promise over time.
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@firefoxwebdevs @plwt
I've not used Vivaldi since last year:
Vivaldi AI – Qwant Search
Fast, reliable answers and still in trust: Qwant does not store your search data, does not sell your personal data and is hosted in Europe.
Qwant (www.qwant.com)
They claim to not have AI.
I use copy / paste to https://libretranslate.com/ if I need translation.
There is no Cloud. Only other people's servers!
@raymaccarthy @plwt it's easy to say you don't have AI if you define it so it doesn't include features you have.
Folks consider translation to be generative AI https://mastodon.social/@firefoxwebdevs/115849251057488746
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@sarah I'm not sure what we can do to convince you other than hold the promise over time.
@firefoxwebdevs@mastodon.social
If you don't disregard overwhelmingly negative feedback regarding AI in Firefox while presentig a dead thread by like three people as "popular request for incorporating AI in Thunderbird" I think there's a possibility to rebuilt trust over time. -
AI Controls (formerly 'kill switch') are landing in today's Firefox Nightly, and will land with Firefox 148 later this month.
For the full details, see the Firefox blog https://blog.mozilla.org/en/firefox/ai-controls/
@firefoxwebdevs the default should be all of this turned off, without the passive aggressive UI.
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@raymaccarthy @plwt it's easy to say you don't have AI if you define it so it doesn't include features you have.
Folks consider translation to be generative AI https://mastodon.social/@firefoxwebdevs/115849251057488746
@firefoxwebdevs @plwt
What Vivaldi says or does is irrelevant.Mozilla did a stupid survey that didn't actually ask if people wanted AI or ML at all.
Most people just want a browser. No need for an AI off switch as there is no reason to have ANY ML or AI of ANY kind in the first place.
Mozilla by any sane metric has been making Thunderbird and Firefox worse for years. I used them practically from release on XP till 2016.
I used Waterfox with Classic Theme restorer for a while after GUI bork. -
@firefoxwebdevs the default should be all of this turned off, without the passive aggressive UI.
@emma note that the models aren't downloaded & used until you opt-in to one of the features.
The 'block' here removes those opt-in entry points, and any like it in future.
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@firefoxwebdevs @plwt
What Vivaldi says or does is irrelevant.Mozilla did a stupid survey that didn't actually ask if people wanted AI or ML at all.
Most people just want a browser. No need for an AI off switch as there is no reason to have ANY ML or AI of ANY kind in the first place.
Mozilla by any sane metric has been making Thunderbird and Firefox worse for years. I used them practically from release on XP till 2016.
I used Waterfox with Classic Theme restorer for a while after GUI bork.@raymaccarthy @plwt a lot of people find things like translation a valuable part of the platform, and makes the web more accessible - including me.
I personally think opening up more of the web via translation is a important feature to have in the browser.
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@raymaccarthy @plwt a lot of people find things like translation a valuable part of the platform, and makes the web more accessible - including me.
I personally think opening up more of the web via translation is a important feature to have in the browser.
@firefoxwebdevs @plwt
Unfortunately no-one is trustworthy. The results are dubious and entire page via browser (tested in Chromium & Firefox) is misleading and a privacy horror.Hence I'll copy / paste fragments for translation.
A web browser should NOT be a platform, but simply render web pages for screen or "print" (which might be PDF).
Print is still abysmal.Also it's obnoxious that the browser GUI ignores the OS GUI / theme/style and imposes an idiot one.
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@firefoxwebdevs @plwt
What Vivaldi says or does is irrelevant.Mozilla did a stupid survey that didn't actually ask if people wanted AI or ML at all.
Most people just want a browser. No need for an AI off switch as there is no reason to have ANY ML or AI of ANY kind in the first place.
Mozilla by any sane metric has been making Thunderbird and Firefox worse for years. I used them practically from release on XP till 2016.
I used Waterfox with Classic Theme restorer for a while after GUI bork.@raymaccarthy @firefoxwebdevs The recent survey was not from the Mozilla Corporation (that makes Firefox), but from the Mozilla Foundation. I would not expect it to mention Firefox.
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@firefoxwebdevs @plwt
Unfortunately no-one is trustworthy. The results are dubious and entire page via browser (tested in Chromium & Firefox) is misleading and a privacy horror.Hence I'll copy / paste fragments for translation.
A web browser should NOT be a platform, but simply render web pages for screen or "print" (which might be PDF).
Print is still abysmal.Also it's obnoxious that the browser GUI ignores the OS GUI / theme/style and imposes an idiot one.
@raymaccarthy @firefoxwebdevs Catering for every UI would make maintaining the features that people like to use much more challenging.
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AI Controls (formerly 'kill switch') are landing in today's Firefox Nightly, and will land with Firefox 148 later this month.
For the full details, see the Firefox blog https://blog.mozilla.org/en/firefox/ai-controls/
@firefoxwebdevs I wonder how many people will still complain…
//checkes the comments
that's about right - tiny vocal minority is still absurdly butthurt…
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@firefoxwebdevs Great. Make it the default. Listen to the survey.
@fabio @firefoxwebdevs survey only shows a tiny fraction of the total userbase. why it should influencethe default?
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@raymaccarthy @firefoxwebdevs Catering for every UI would make maintaining the features that people like to use much more challenging.
@plwt @firefoxwebdevs
No it's simpler. unless you are using a broken framework. I was writing desktop SW 15 years ago and without ANY extra work it used the Mac, Redhat, Ubuntu, XP or Vista theme in use.Most programs on XP, Win7, Win10, Linux etc use the current theme.
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@raymaccarthy @firefoxwebdevs The recent survey was not from the Mozilla Corporation (that makes Firefox), but from the Mozilla Foundation. I would not expect it to mention Firefox.
@plwt @firefoxwebdevs
It was a survey about inclusion of AI that didn't ask if it was even wanted.It's disingenuous to suggest it's not related to Firefox.
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@firefoxwebdevs AI crap like this has driven me back to using Lynx in the terminal for most of my browsing until I can find a browser not infected with Google, Apple, and now Firefox code. If I do need a graphic web browser I just us IronWolf and don't log into your account. I used to be a huge evangelist for your browser and other tools but no more. We have told you we don't want this, we want to support you and tell our friends to use you yet you make it impossible. For "Bob"'s sake LISTEN
@kittyjynx @firefoxwebdevs
> a browser not infected with Google, Apple, and now Firefox codePale Moon? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pale_Moon
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@mausmalone I don't think so. But of course it will be mentioned in release notes. We're not exactly being quiet about it.
@firefoxwebdevs I mean ... as much as I appreciate the transparency for the sort of people who follow release notes and developer channels, the whole idea of putting this is a user-friendly and straightforward settings page is to help the un-tech-savvy users who don't.
Like, both my wife and my kid use Firefox and they're NEVER gonna read a release note.
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@firefoxwebdevs I mean ... as much as I appreciate the transparency for the sort of people who follow release notes and developer channels, the whole idea of putting this is a user-friendly and straightforward settings page is to help the un-tech-savvy users who don't.
Like, both my wife and my kid use Firefox and they're NEVER gonna read a release note.
@mausmalone also, the way this button is being presented feels like we are enabling a sparkly new thing? Kind of the opposite of what it is doing
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@plwt @firefoxwebdevs
It was a survey about inclusion of AI that didn't ask if it was even wanted.It's disingenuous to suggest it's not related to Firefox.
@raymaccarthy @firefoxwebdevs Apologies, I am not trying to be disingenuous. There was a survey recently from the Mozilla Foundation that was looking at their future work. Many people seem to think it was tied to Firefox.
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@plwt @firefoxwebdevs
No it's simpler. unless you are using a broken framework. I was writing desktop SW 15 years ago and without ANY extra work it used the Mac, Redhat, Ubuntu, XP or Vista theme in use.Most programs on XP, Win7, Win10, Linux etc use the current theme.
@raymaccarthy @firefoxwebdevs It would need to cater for not only Windows and macOS (possibly multiple versions of both) as well as quite a few different Linux desktops. At the same time, it would need to have light and dark modes for all.
With Fx having the same broad style across most platforms feels much better to support and easier for contributors to work on.
