Semi serious question, (please do not ask "AI") I can do web searches just fine so please answer from your own experience:
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@adriano
That would apply to anglicisms into any other language as well as calques (loan words or word for word phrases). I don’t think it’s what OP is looking for.Quebecois French authorities are always on the alert for ‘anglicismes’.
Even so, there are calques, as well as local idiomatic usage and expressions, that exist in both English and French where there is a high level of bilingualism. e.g. people in western Quebec and Eastern Ontario often use the verb ‘to close’ / ‘fermer’ rather than ‘shut down’ / ‘éteindre’ their computer. It’s not considered correct English or French but it’s what’s commonly used.
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Semi serious question, (please do not ask "AI") I can do web searches just fine so please answer from your own experience:
In English, you have "four letter words", these words have four letters but are perhaps not to be used in polite communication.
In OTHER languages: Are there any other "group of words constrained by arbitrary rules"?
Does NOT have to be an offensive group of words, but more like a grouping outside the traditional language syntax.
(no answer? please boost)
@afreytes outside of i.e. professional jargon, I can't think of any example
possibly certain sociolects, but that's not purely about words, it's also pronounciation, grammar, etc.Perhaps the closest thing is "Jugendwörter" ("youth words"), loosely referring to teenage slang and a ittle more closely referring especially to words nominated for the "Jugendwort des Jahres" ("youth word of the year") award? That's the only named collection of words I can think of that are connected not by genre (noun/verb/etc).
(All of this is German, btw)
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Semi serious question, (please do not ask "AI") I can do web searches just fine so please answer from your own experience:
In English, you have "four letter words", these words have four letters but are perhaps not to be used in polite communication.
In OTHER languages: Are there any other "group of words constrained by arbitrary rules"?
Does NOT have to be an offensive group of words, but more like a grouping outside the traditional language syntax.
(no answer? please boost)
@afreytes it’s not a rule, it’s a euphemism, which English is full of (presumably because lots of radical Christians)
it’s just a coincidence that there’s quite a few swear words with four letters
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@adriano
That would apply to anglicisms into any other language as well as calques (loan words or word for word phrases). I don’t think it’s what OP is looking for.Quebecois French authorities are always on the alert for ‘anglicismes’.
Even so, there are calques, as well as local idiomatic usage and expressions, that exist in both English and French where there is a high level of bilingualism. e.g. people in western Quebec and Eastern Ontario often use the verb ‘to close’ / ‘fermer’ rather than ‘shut down’ / ‘éteindre’ their computer. It’s not considered correct English or French but it’s what’s commonly used.
@AlsoPaisleyCat @adriano @blogdiva you are right that "loan words" is not what I was looking for.
But can you expand on "Quebecois French authorities are always on the alert for ‘anglicismes’."?
Does this mean entities get fined for using foreign words? I'm picturing a sort referee taking out a red card when someone misuses an English word!
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@afreytes it’s not a rule, it’s a euphemism, which English is full of (presumably because lots of radical Christians)
it’s just a coincidence that there’s quite a few swear words with four letters
@thomasfuchs I know this, this is an uneeded explanation. Thanks but this is not an answer in the spirit of my question.
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Semi serious question, (please do not ask "AI") I can do web searches just fine so please answer from your own experience:
In English, you have "four letter words", these words have four letters but are perhaps not to be used in polite communication.
In OTHER languages: Are there any other "group of words constrained by arbitrary rules"?
Does NOT have to be an offensive group of words, but more like a grouping outside the traditional language syntax.
(no answer? please boost)
There is a similar construct in Russian also centred around profanity, but with a three-letter word, so the equivalent of "go to hell" becomes "go to three letters", and it's assumed everyone knows which three.
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There is a similar construct in Russian also centred around profanity, but with a three-letter word, so the equivalent of "go to hell" becomes "go to three letters", and it's assumed everyone knows which three.
@max oooh... Is Hell also three letters in Russian? Please tell
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Semi serious question, (please do not ask "AI") I can do web searches just fine so please answer from your own experience:
In English, you have "four letter words", these words have four letters but are perhaps not to be used in polite communication.
In OTHER languages: Are there any other "group of words constrained by arbitrary rules"?
Does NOT have to be an offensive group of words, but more like a grouping outside the traditional language syntax.
(no answer? please boost)
@afreytes in Russian they have mata yizik or "mothers tongue" for their glorious swearing.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M6EUvOeAjs8&list=PLEBRDbRtaaek5vsyhTf7o5zpzpiovgOPw&index=8
I had a colleague from Belarus and her absolutely X rated running commentary had people literally crying with suppressed laughter at what she said
This is funny as this woman is so composed speaking perfect Russian and tells the drivers where to go in the most coarse language
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=46yEQ9ak5q8&list=PLEBRDbRtaaek5vsyhTf7o5zpzpiovgOPw
Philippines has Bakla https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bakla#Swardspeak
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@jmopp Yes, yes it would. But I want to know about languages other than English.
@afreytes @jmopp those are sometimes referred to as w-words or w-questions (W-Wörter/W-Fragen) in German. But the context is often more "teaching elementary school kids what information is important when calling emergency services" (the answers to all w-questions) or "what information can you convey/do you need?", and not that much about a group of words?
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@afreytes @jmopp those are sometimes referred to as w-words or w-questions (W-Wörter/W-Fragen) in German. But the context is often more "teaching elementary school kids what information is important when calling emergency services" (the answers to all w-questions) or "what information can you convey/do you need?", and not that much about a group of words?
@afreytes @jmopp although there is a Wikipedia article about w-words in German: https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/W-Wort
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@max oooh... Is Hell also three letters in Russian? Please tell
To be exact, the construct is "послать на хуй", which literally is closer to "tell someone to go fuck themselves", but can be hidden by the euphemism "послать на три буквы", which would literally be "tell someone to go to three letters". And re: hell, the name of the place is two letters ("ад"), but in strong language it's much more common to tell someone to go to the devil/devils ("к чёрту").
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To be exact, the construct is "послать на хуй", which literally is closer to "tell someone to go fuck themselves", but can be hidden by the euphemism "послать на три буквы", which would literally be "tell someone to go to three letters". And re: hell, the name of the place is two letters ("ад"), but in strong language it's much more common to tell someone to go to the devil/devils ("к чёрту").
@max thank you, I love it!
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@AlsoPaisleyCat @adriano @blogdiva you are right that "loan words" is not what I was looking for.
But can you expand on "Quebecois French authorities are always on the alert for ‘anglicismes’."?
Does this mean entities get fined for using foreign words? I'm picturing a sort referee taking out a red card when someone misuses an English word!
🤭@afreytes
There are strict signage laws in Quebec that require French to be used and to have larger letters than English or other languages. Store owners are policed and fined for violations by *L’Office québécoise de la langue française*.Beyond that incorporation of anglicisms is not tolerated or endorsed the way it is in France. We use ‘courriel’, not ‘email’; ‘fin de semaine’ not ‘weekend’ as daily examples of anglicisms that are dictionary-words accepted in France but not here.
https://montrealgazette.com/business/quebec-language-inspectors-english-oqlf/
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@AlsoPaisleyCat @adriano @blogdiva you are right that "loan words" is not what I was looking for.
But can you expand on "Quebecois French authorities are always on the alert for ‘anglicismes’."?
Does this mean entities get fined for using foreign words? I'm picturing a sort referee taking out a red card when someone misuses an English word!
🤭@afreytes @AlsoPaisleyCat @blogdiva true, but also my specific point was how in Spanish we have groupings for all the diverse variants by country.
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@afreytes
There are strict signage laws in Quebec that require French to be used and to have larger letters than English or other languages. Store owners are policed and fined for violations by *L’Office québécoise de la langue française*.Beyond that incorporation of anglicisms is not tolerated or endorsed the way it is in France. We use ‘courriel’, not ‘email’; ‘fin de semaine’ not ‘weekend’ as daily examples of anglicisms that are dictionary-words accepted in France but not here.
https://montrealgazette.com/business/quebec-language-inspectors-english-oqlf/
@AlsoPaisleyCat @adriano @blogdiva I see! Thank you!
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@AlsoPaisleyCat @adriano @blogdiva I see! Thank you!
@afreytes
More generally and practically, the school and university systems in Canada are on alert for anglicisms and look to domestic dictionaries for new words rather than borrowing English ones.New words like ‘courriel’ for ‘email’ become normative for usage in French at all levels and are incorporated into word processors etc. If I used ‘email’ in a French text at work, it would be flagged as an error in my spelling and grammar checker because my language setting is *français (Canadian)*.
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@thomasfuchs I know this, this is an uneeded explanation. Thanks but this is not an answer in the spirit of my question.
@afreytes I'm pointing out that the question makes little sense as you're asking for "arbitrary rules", but it's not an arbitrary rule but stems from how languages work.
The reason why it's four-letter words in English is that swear words tend to be monosyllabic and most English monosyllabic words have 4 letters. (Note: not all four-letter words in English have 4 letters.)
Anyway for other languages: in Dutch for example monosyllabic words tend to have 3 letters and they indeed sometimes call their "bad" words "three letter words".
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Some replies seem to answer the question as: What are "four letter words" called in your language?
And that is NOT necessarily what I am asking.
Imagine, that in your language, the informal names for mammals all had 6 letters and always ended in "mu". Dog is a dogymu and cat is katymu. And in your language they colloquially call this "The Mu Group".
Doesn't have to be a letter limit either, could be any arbitrary thing that isn't just "all the verbs", "all the adjectives", etc
@afreytes Does this count? For some mostly unknown reason, a very very large number of place names in Estonia end in "-vere", which sounds like it means blood, or "of blood".
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@afreytes Does this count? For some mostly unknown reason, a very very large number of place names in Estonia end in "-vere", which sounds like it means blood, or "of blood".
@Pyrogenesis oh! I didnt know this! I like it!
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@afreytes In French Canada (at least in the province of Québec) we have “mots d’église" (ie: church words). Basically swear words, often with adjusted spellings (ex: tabernacle = tabarnak!). They can be combined for effect.
Québec used to be a very religious place…
You’ll mostly hear such swears around you except for the occasional “marde” in combination with a church word or “merde” if not.
