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  3. I went on Facebook (I know I know I know) and they are selling tinfoil hats.

I went on Facebook (I know I know I know) and they are selling tinfoil hats.

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  • burnitdown@beige.partyB burnitdown@beige.party

    @futurebird @oldclumsy_nowmad@mastodon.social @muddle@infosec.exchange

    it depends on the strength and type of signal, and how close you are to the source. an unshielded magnetron from a microwave oven will definitely cook you, including your brain. that's why there are warning signs to not stand in front of microwave radio dishes.

    samanthajanesmith@lgbtqia.spaceS This user is from outside of this forum
    samanthajanesmith@lgbtqia.spaceS This user is from outside of this forum
    samanthajanesmith@lgbtqia.space
    wrote last edited by
    #172

    @burnitdown @futurebird Its also interesting that different parts of the body are affected differently by microwaves. One of the more vulnerable parts are the eyes. So don't watch the food cook...

    burnitdown@beige.partyB 1 Reply Last reply
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    • linuxandyarn@hachyderm.ioL linuxandyarn@hachyderm.io

      @clayfoot @futurebird Do they sell chaps to go with their chafes?

      clayfoot@mastodon.socialC This user is from outside of this forum
      clayfoot@mastodon.socialC This user is from outside of this forum
      clayfoot@mastodon.social
      wrote last edited by
      #173

      @linuxandyarn @futurebird Well that's just silly

      1 Reply Last reply
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      • M muddle@infosec.exchange

        @adrake @futurebird @oldclumsy_nowmad I was thinking about that, and the fact that microwave ovens and wifi both use 2.4GHz. I did a quick search to try to find out the relative power levels. Ovens are easy: they're going to be around 800W~2kW. Unfortunately, the search results were suggesting WiFi pumps out 100--200W. Scary, if true. In fact, the actual power output is in the 20-100mW (*milli-*Watt) range.

        I didn't really want to go there because it could play into the hands of those people that want to convince us that Wi-Fi (or 5G or whatever) is making us sick, but the 99.7% shielding figure is good to know. It would mean, roughly, that a 1KW microwave oven with proper shielding is pumping out around 10 times as much radiation as a local Wi-Fi router (1W compared to 100mW).

        People pushing conspiracy theories about this is bad enough, but when search engines are promoting figures that are 3 orders of magnitude off, well... that's also very worrying. (and that's before we even get into LLMs...)

        adrake@sfba.socialA This user is from outside of this forum
        adrake@sfba.socialA This user is from outside of this forum
        adrake@sfba.social
        wrote last edited by
        #174

        @muddle @futurebird @oldclumsy_nowmad the FCC limit on 2.4GHz transmitters is 1W for sufficiently spread-spectrum devices (including WiFi). The maximum emissions in any particular direction are capped at a level equivalent to a 4W omnidirectional antenna (this equivalent measurement is called EIRP). Most wifi devices operate well below that level since it's rough on battery life.

        Microwave ovens are limited by FDA to leaking a max of 5mW/cm^2 from any point on the oven's surface (measured 2in away). That works out to be a little below the power density you get from a worst-case WiFi transmitter at 3 inches away.

        The 99.7 number is the claimed shielding performance of the hat, not any regulations.

        M 1 Reply Last reply
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        • M muddle@infosec.exchange

          @oldclumsy_nowmad @futurebird I was going to look it up myself but realised the futility of it. IEEE is not a military organisation and real military standards tend to start with MIL, I think. Even if not, that whole line at the bottom screams fake.

          samanthajanesmith@lgbtqia.spaceS This user is from outside of this forum
          samanthajanesmith@lgbtqia.spaceS This user is from outside of this forum
          samanthajanesmith@lgbtqia.space
          wrote last edited by
          #175

          @muddle @oldclumsy_nowmad @futurebird IEEE 299 is about standard measurement practice

          1 Reply Last reply
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          • cinebox@masto.hackers.townC cinebox@masto.hackers.town

            @futurebird @oldclumsy_nowmad @muddle RF *can* hurt you if its high enough power, but that’s generally limited to labs and microwave ovens, not what’s emitted by cell phones

            …or anywhere outdoors. you might get a sunburn

            samanthajanesmith@lgbtqia.spaceS This user is from outside of this forum
            samanthajanesmith@lgbtqia.spaceS This user is from outside of this forum
            samanthajanesmith@lgbtqia.space
            wrote last edited by
            #176

            @cinebox @futurebird @oldclumsy_nowmad @muddle or worse...

            1 Reply Last reply
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            • adrake@sfba.socialA adrake@sfba.social

              @muddle @futurebird @oldclumsy_nowmad the FCC limit on 2.4GHz transmitters is 1W for sufficiently spread-spectrum devices (including WiFi). The maximum emissions in any particular direction are capped at a level equivalent to a 4W omnidirectional antenna (this equivalent measurement is called EIRP). Most wifi devices operate well below that level since it's rough on battery life.

              Microwave ovens are limited by FDA to leaking a max of 5mW/cm^2 from any point on the oven's surface (measured 2in away). That works out to be a little below the power density you get from a worst-case WiFi transmitter at 3 inches away.

              The 99.7 number is the claimed shielding performance of the hat, not any regulations.

              M This user is from outside of this forum
              M This user is from outside of this forum
              muddle@infosec.exchange
              wrote last edited by
              #177

              @adrake @futurebird @oldclumsy_nowmad ah, I misread what you said about 99.7% initially. I didn't realise you were talking about the hat. So I guess I overestimated the effectiveness of the shielding and, hence, also overestimated the leakage

              I also did look up some more reputable info on max wireless tx power and was surprised to find that in some countries it can even go up to 4W (which tallies with what you said):

              Link Preview Image
              Maximum wifi transmission power per country

              favicon

              Wolph (w.wol.ph)

              Taken together, wifi and ovens seem to be roughly comparable rather than there being the orders-of-magnitude differences that I expected (with ovens emitting more radiation).

              Thanks for the correction. I guess I'll have to retire my "but microwaves leak more energy" argument when dealing with (literal) tinfoil hatters...

              adrake@sfba.socialA 1 Reply Last reply
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              • futurebird@sauropods.winF futurebird@sauropods.win

                I went on Facebook (I know I know I know) and they are selling tinfoil hats.

                The "Wavestopper" costs $88 Free Shipping!

                (I checked. It is not an April Fools joke. Selling to people with "brain fog" feels a little predatory to me.)

                makerblock@mastodon.socialM This user is from outside of this forum
                makerblock@mastodon.socialM This user is from outside of this forum
                makerblock@mastodon.social
                wrote last edited by
                #178

                RE: https://sauropods.win/@futurebird/116342201450394205

                Now, I'm not in favor of spam / scam callers...

                But, I somehow feel less bad about the idea of someone selling snake oil brand snake oil clearly labeling the contents as snake oil (even if there are some outlandish claims) and letting fools and their money be parted?

                1 Reply Last reply
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                • futurebird@sauropods.winF futurebird@sauropods.win

                  @oldclumsy_nowmad @Anke @muddle

                  I'm interested in noise pollution and light pollution. Light pollution is horrible for insects. (and birds) Noise pollution is bad for people.

                  We could have less loud, dark at night (but still safe) cities and towns.

                  da_gut@dice.campD This user is from outside of this forum
                  da_gut@dice.campD This user is from outside of this forum
                  da_gut@dice.camp
                  wrote last edited by
                  #179

                  @futurebird @oldclumsy_nowmad @Anke @muddle

                  Light pollution is bad for plants as well. Let’s see if I can find that link.

                  Link Preview Image
                  Street light choice matters: impacts of presence and color on wild plants

                  bioRxiv - the preprint server for biology, operated by openRxiv, a nonprofit organization dedicated to advancing scientific communication

                  favicon

                  bioRxiv (www.biorxiv.org)

                  1 Reply Last reply
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                  • samanthajanesmith@lgbtqia.spaceS samanthajanesmith@lgbtqia.space

                    @burnitdown @futurebird Its also interesting that different parts of the body are affected differently by microwaves. One of the more vulnerable parts are the eyes. So don't watch the food cook...

                    burnitdown@beige.partyB This user is from outside of this forum
                    burnitdown@beige.partyB This user is from outside of this forum
                    burnitdown@beige.party
                    wrote last edited by
                    #180

                    @SamanthaJaneSmith @futurebird the shielding is there so you don't cook yourself at all. without it, you would need to stand dozens of metres away to operate the microwave.

                    1 Reply Last reply
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                    • futurebird@sauropods.winF futurebird@sauropods.win

                      Do you think the people selling this are laughing at their customers or are they into it?

                      It's like a damn joke.

                      linuxandyarn@hachyderm.ioL This user is from outside of this forum
                      linuxandyarn@hachyderm.ioL This user is from outside of this forum
                      linuxandyarn@hachyderm.io
                      wrote last edited by
                      #181

                      @futurebird They're selling it for $88? If they're not laughing, they're seig heiling at trump rallies.

                      1 Reply Last reply
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                      • M muddle@infosec.exchange

                        @adrake @futurebird @oldclumsy_nowmad ah, I misread what you said about 99.7% initially. I didn't realise you were talking about the hat. So I guess I overestimated the effectiveness of the shielding and, hence, also overestimated the leakage

                        I also did look up some more reputable info on max wireless tx power and was surprised to find that in some countries it can even go up to 4W (which tallies with what you said):

                        Link Preview Image
                        Maximum wifi transmission power per country

                        favicon

                        Wolph (w.wol.ph)

                        Taken together, wifi and ovens seem to be roughly comparable rather than there being the orders-of-magnitude differences that I expected (with ovens emitting more radiation).

                        Thanks for the correction. I guess I'll have to retire my "but microwaves leak more energy" argument when dealing with (literal) tinfoil hatters...

                        adrake@sfba.socialA This user is from outside of this forum
                        adrake@sfba.socialA This user is from outside of this forum
                        adrake@sfba.social
                        wrote last edited by
                        #182

                        @muddle @futurebird @oldclumsy_nowmad I think it's not accidental that they're comparable. Both are expected to be used by the general population with no safety training, so both should have limits that are safe under most circumstances.

                        Licensed users have different rules. Amateur radio operators are licensed to transmit at up to 1500W (!) on most of the 2.4GHz band, but they take on the legal burden of ensuring that whatever they do doesn't expose others to unsafe levels of emissions.

                        1 Reply Last reply
                        0
                        • futurebird@sauropods.winF futurebird@sauropods.win

                          I went on Facebook (I know I know I know) and they are selling tinfoil hats.

                          The "Wavestopper" costs $88 Free Shipping!

                          (I checked. It is not an April Fools joke. Selling to people with "brain fog" feels a little predatory to me.)

                          wakame@tech.lgbtW This user is from outside of this forum
                          wakame@tech.lgbtW This user is from outside of this forum
                          wakame@tech.lgbt
                          wrote last edited by
                          #183

                          @futurebird
                          Sounds like a scam.
                          Everyone knows that the microchips in Bill Gates' Covid vaccine are distributed through the whole body.
                          How else would the birdpeople from Vega know exactly the moment I take off my socks?

                          1 Reply Last reply
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                          • futurebird@sauropods.winF futurebird@sauropods.win

                            I went on Facebook (I know I know I know) and they are selling tinfoil hats.

                            The "Wavestopper" costs $88 Free Shipping!

                            (I checked. It is not an April Fools joke. Selling to people with "brain fog" feels a little predatory to me.)

                            L This user is from outside of this forum
                            L This user is from outside of this forum
                            luc0x61@mastodon.gamedev.place
                            wrote last edited by
                            #184

                            @futurebird When it reads "from your brain" it means to stop the WiFi and Bluetooth emissions coming from your brain?

                            1 Reply Last reply
                            0
                            • futurebird@sauropods.winF futurebird@sauropods.win

                              I went on Facebook (I know I know I know) and they are selling tinfoil hats.

                              The "Wavestopper" costs $88 Free Shipping!

                              (I checked. It is not an April Fools joke. Selling to people with "brain fog" feels a little predatory to me.)

                              sabik@rants.auS This user is from outside of this forum
                              sabik@rants.auS This user is from outside of this forum
                              sabik@rants.au
                              wrote last edited by
                              #185

                              @futurebird
                              That's... not the part of your head that you need to be covering to avoid brain fog
                              #MaskUp #WearAMask

                              1 Reply Last reply
                              0
                              • futurebird@sauropods.winF futurebird@sauropods.win

                                I went on Facebook (I know I know I know) and they are selling tinfoil hats.

                                The "Wavestopper" costs $88 Free Shipping!

                                (I checked. It is not an April Fools joke. Selling to people with "brain fog" feels a little predatory to me.)

                                bmebenji@mstdn.socialB This user is from outside of this forum
                                bmebenji@mstdn.socialB This user is from outside of this forum
                                bmebenji@mstdn.social
                                wrote last edited by
                                #186

                                @futurebird @alice … have y’all seen the movie “Joe Vs the Volcano?”

                                alice@lgbtqia.spaceA 1 Reply Last reply
                                0
                                • futurebird@sauropods.winF futurebird@sauropods.win

                                  I went on Facebook (I know I know I know) and they are selling tinfoil hats.

                                  The "Wavestopper" costs $88 Free Shipping!

                                  (I checked. It is not an April Fools joke. Selling to people with "brain fog" feels a little predatory to me.)

                                  mrgrumpymonkey@mastodon.socialM This user is from outside of this forum
                                  mrgrumpymonkey@mastodon.socialM This user is from outside of this forum
                                  mrgrumpymonkey@mastodon.social
                                  wrote last edited by
                                  #187

                                  @futurebird The sheep will buy anything to stay relevant.

                                  1 Reply Last reply
                                  0
                                  • futurebird@sauropods.winF futurebird@sauropods.win

                                    I went on Facebook (I know I know I know) and they are selling tinfoil hats.

                                    The "Wavestopper" costs $88 Free Shipping!

                                    (I checked. It is not an April Fools joke. Selling to people with "brain fog" feels a little predatory to me.)

                                    rayocentric@mastodon.socialR This user is from outside of this forum
                                    rayocentric@mastodon.socialR This user is from outside of this forum
                                    rayocentric@mastodon.social
                                    wrote last edited by
                                    #188

                                    @futurebird
                                    Well... alot of people did buy the pet rock decades ago.

                                    1 Reply Last reply
                                    0
                                    • futurebird@sauropods.winF futurebird@sauropods.win

                                      I went on Facebook (I know I know I know) and they are selling tinfoil hats.

                                      The "Wavestopper" costs $88 Free Shipping!

                                      (I checked. It is not an April Fools joke. Selling to people with "brain fog" feels a little predatory to me.)

                                      ellie@ellieayla.netE This user is from outside of this forum
                                      ellie@ellieayla.netE This user is from outside of this forum
                                      ellie@ellieayla.net
                                      wrote last edited by
                                      #189

                                      @futurebird I need a phone case made of this stuff.

                                      1 Reply Last reply
                                      0
                                      • futurebird@sauropods.winF futurebird@sauropods.win

                                        I went on Facebook (I know I know I know) and they are selling tinfoil hats.

                                        The "Wavestopper" costs $88 Free Shipping!

                                        (I checked. It is not an April Fools joke. Selling to people with "brain fog" feels a little predatory to me.)

                                        davesdogmaggie@mstdn.socialD This user is from outside of this forum
                                        davesdogmaggie@mstdn.socialD This user is from outside of this forum
                                        davesdogmaggie@mstdn.social
                                        wrote last edited by
                                        #190

                                        @futurebird

                                        * kicks self for not coming up with this first

                                        1 Reply Last reply
                                        0
                                        • futurebird@sauropods.winF futurebird@sauropods.win

                                          I went on Facebook (I know I know I know) and they are selling tinfoil hats.

                                          The "Wavestopper" costs $88 Free Shipping!

                                          (I checked. It is not an April Fools joke. Selling to people with "brain fog" feels a little predatory to me.)

                                          falcennial@mastodon.socialF This user is from outside of this forum
                                          falcennial@mastodon.socialF This user is from outside of this forum
                                          falcennial@mastodon.social
                                          wrote last edited by
                                          #191

                                          @futurebird lol!

                                          the fact somebody made a tinfoil hat look legitimately cool blows my mind.

                                          futurebird@sauropods.winF 1 Reply Last reply
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