"Where to buy a non-Apple, non-Google smartphone"
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From a first glance these look like Android devices to me. Personally, I think Android is on a dead end when it comes to being aligned with free software principles.
I really prefer #MobileLinux.
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Unfortunately modem data still breaks now and then. To place it in perspective, I loose mobile internet at most once in a few days nowadays. Lack of connectivity is clearly indicated by an icon in the top bar when it happens, so you are at least aware of it.
I have the impression that this connectivity loss happens less and less, but that is a subjective impression. Maybe I should try to measure to be more exact.@janvlug @codo It's a modem firmware bug that we have no control over. There are workarounds with various tradeoffs, you could put a watchdog for it too. In practice, for me it's only a minor annoyance since flipping the switch is so fast, but I can see it being disruptive for certain use cases.
Fortunately the modem is easily replaceable so we won't be stuck with this forever.
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@Kerplunk Unfortunately the #Librem5 is expensive. Purism has to earn all on the hardware sell. Purism is not gathering data, or pre-installing privacy invasive apps on their devices.
It is possible to support the PureOS development though:
PureOS Optional Subscription Added to Advance Development – Purism
Purism makes premium phones, laptops, mini PCs and servers running free software on PureOS. Purism products respect people's privacy and freedom while protecting their security.
Purism (puri.sm)
But that would cost you even more.
From the other side, the devices have longer support than the average Android phone.
Maybe you can try to get a second hands device via:
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@janvlug
How do you deal with banking and government apps? Those are the main pain point for me since they usually do not work without gplay services@wellsaid I can do all banking below €5000 via the browser. Here in the Netherlands I can still login into government services with SMS as 2FA, so I do not need any app for government.
I oppose #appdwang (in Dutch):
Bied weerstand tegen appdwang! | appdwang.nl
Bied weerstand tegen appdwang en laat je geen apps opdringen! Op appdwang.nl vind je praktijkvoorbeelden en argumenten om duidelijk te maken wat je van appdwang vindt.
(appdwang.nl)
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@janvlug
Just to be sure, which ones still count as mobile tracking devices?@janneke This is a difficult question to answer. First of all, I only really know the #Librem5. Furthermore, you can be tracked via the browser, via connection to telephone antenna's, Wifi and Bluetooth and probably more.
The Librem 5 has kill switches to physically switch of wifi, gsm, camera, and microphone.
Hardware Kill Switches – Purism
There is an increasing threat of cameras and microphones being used to spy on you. Leaked documents have shown plans from the NSA to infect “millions” of computers with malware called CAPTIVATEDAUDIENCE (which turns a computer’s microphone into a bug) and GUMFISH (which turns your camera into a spycam). Such attacks will only become more …
Purism (puri.sm)
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@janvlug If we want opensource mobile OSes to succeed, they need officially supported banking apps and identity verification apps. These are crucial to me but they only exist on iOS and Android.
@superblox I oppose organizations that force me to use #apps from #bigtech platforms.
There is an interesting page in Dutch about #appdwang:
Bied weerstand tegen appdwang! | appdwang.nl
Bied weerstand tegen appdwang en laat je geen apps opdringen! Op appdwang.nl vind je praktijkvoorbeelden en argumenten om duidelijk te maken wat je van appdwang vindt.
(appdwang.nl)
I can bank via the browser, everything below €5000 (I use ASNBank). Identity verification sucks, but often there are options to do it without an app as well. Like going with your id to an office, or someone is visiting you to verify your id.
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@janvlug @codo It's a modem firmware bug that we have no control over. There are workarounds with various tradeoffs, you could put a watchdog for it too. In practice, for me it's only a minor annoyance since flipping the switch is so fast, but I can see it being disruptive for certain use cases.
Fortunately the modem is easily replaceable so we won't be stuck with this forever.
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@janvlug Is encrypted messaging available? Signal?
@khleedril I use Signal Desktop on the #Librem5, installed as #flatpak (unofficial).
Apparently, @signalapp is working towards having Signal Desktop fully independent of the Android and iOS apps.
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@khleedril I use Signal Desktop on the #Librem5, installed as #flatpak (unofficial).
Apparently, @signalapp is working towards having Signal Desktop fully independent of the Android and iOS apps.
@janvlug @khleedril @signalapp I wouldn't recommend compromising Signal's security by using third-party builds. Sadly, the arm64 Electron version isn't fixed yet (same problem on my Asahi laptop), and it's hard to say when it will be. For now, I use Flare—the only missing feature is calls, which I really miss.
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@janvlug
Can you use Signal and some kind of OpenStreetMap navigation? Can you use Android apps in general and is it complicated? Or is it more like using whatever could run on Linux desktop?You can use Android apps with #Wayland on the #Librem5. But personally, I have no experience with Wayland.
For navigation (#openstreetmap based), I use #PureMaps (https://flathub.org/en/apps/io.github.rinigus.PureMaps) and just looking at GNOME maps (https://flathub.org/en/apps/org.gnome.Maps).
Indeed, it is like using whatever could run on the #Linux desktop. Ideally, adaptive applications:
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@janvlug
Except for the fact that they all are way out of my budget for a phone (I don't want to waste more than 200 € for a phone!), I'm not sure all "mandatory" apps I have to use are compatible with those phones (bank, government, SPID, school and health-related, ...) and anyway I won't spend such money unless I'm sure of that.
Sorry, would really love to switch (especially to EU phones!), but can't afford that.@AAMfP The force to using #apps from #bigtech is really annoying. There is a page in Dutch about it:
Bied weerstand tegen appdwang! | appdwang.nl
Bied weerstand tegen appdwang en laat je geen apps opdringen! Op appdwang.nl vind je praktijkvoorbeelden en argumenten om duidelijk te maken wat je van appdwang vindt.
(appdwang.nl)
Personally, I resist using apps that only are provided and work on big tech platforms. I manage to do most of what I want.
Regarding the price, see: https://mastodon.social/@janvlug/116510085888567116
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@janvlug How so? If an American company is hosting the cloud (regardless of what software they use), they fall under US jurisdiction no matter where data is stored. And US jurisdiction is a huge risk. If you care about your data that is.
@mihamarkic Yes, but the FOSS itself is not hosted. If you use for example #PureOS you just install it on your phone (or other device). It is self hosted on your device, so not under US jurisdiction.
So, using a US cloud provider means US jurisdiction, which I also do not want to fall under that for my data.
But for example, I self host #Nextcloud, and use that with PureOS on my #Librem5 (and other computers). This is perfectly fine even regarding the fact that PureOS is not EU based.
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@mihamarkic Yes, but the FOSS itself is not hosted. If you use for example #PureOS you just install it on your phone (or other device). It is self hosted on your device, so not under US jurisdiction.
So, using a US cloud provider means US jurisdiction, which I also do not want to fall under that for my data.
But for example, I self host #Nextcloud, and use that with PureOS on my #Librem5 (and other computers). This is perfectly fine even regarding the fact that PureOS is not EU based.
@janvlug Yep, agreed, no problems with the data there.
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@janvlug @khleedril @signalapp I wouldn't recommend compromising Signal's security by using third-party builds. Sadly, the arm64 Electron version isn't fixed yet (same problem on my Asahi laptop), and it's hard to say when it will be. For now, I use Flare—the only missing feature is calls, which I really miss.
I agree on the fact that using third-party builds imposes a risk. Unfortunately, Signal has not been very #MobileLinux friendly. But I think things are getting better and better. There is als an official #appimage in the making. Not sure if it will run on arm64 though.
Major expansion of Signal for Linux, announces AppImage
Signal Desktop will soon be officially released as an AppImage. This will make Signal accessible on all Linux distributions, not just Debian-based systems.
AboutSignal (aboutsignal.com)
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@mihamarkic Yes, but the FOSS itself is not hosted. If you use for example #PureOS you just install it on your phone (or other device). It is self hosted on your device, so not under US jurisdiction.
So, using a US cloud provider means US jurisdiction, which I also do not want to fall under that for my data.
But for example, I self host #Nextcloud, and use that with PureOS on my #Librem5 (and other computers). This is perfectly fine even regarding the fact that PureOS is not EU based.
@janvlug@mastodon.social @mihamarkic@mastodon.social
A slightly clearer way to say this: “Well, yeah. But you don’t have to use a host in the US. For example, you can host it yourself or on a VPS far away from the US.”
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@janvlug@mastodon.social @mihamarkic@mastodon.social
A slightly clearer way to say this: “Well, yeah. But you don’t have to use a host in the US. For example, you can host it yourself or on a VPS far away from the US.”
@lucyinchat @janvlug It's not just do not host in the US. It's more like hosting with US providers where data might still be contained within the EU and at the same time not secure.
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@janvlug@mastodon.social @mihamarkic@mastodon.social
A slightly clearer way to say this: “Well, yeah. But you don’t have to use a host in the US. For example, you can host it yourself or on a VPS far away from the US.”
Thanks, but let me add to this: if you use a host in e.g. the EU, but the company providing the host is a US company, you are still under US jurisdiction. So it is not the location of the host that is important, but the jurisdiction of the company providing the host.
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I agree on the fact that using third-party builds imposes a risk. Unfortunately, Signal has not been very #MobileLinux friendly. But I think things are getting better and better. There is als an official #appimage in the making. Not sure if it will run on arm64 though.
Major expansion of Signal for Linux, announces AppImage
Signal Desktop will soon be officially released as an AppImage. This will make Signal accessible on all Linux distributions, not just Debian-based systems.
AboutSignal (aboutsignal.com)
@janvlug @khleedril @signalapp it's same underlying tech (e.g. Electron), thus no. There is open big about arm64, but not much progress there.
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@janvlug what languages are the APIs available in?
@stonykark I do not really understand your question. The API's of what? Are you referring to the #Librem5? The Librem 5 is basically just a Linux device. The operating system is by default #PureOS, a #Debian derivative.
