semiconductor folks!
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semiconductor folks! I've seen a lot of talking heads repeat the claim that "a helium shortage is bad for chip production", never substantiated with useful information. do any of you know:
- what is helium actually used in the processes?
- which specific processes would be affected?
- how much helium (ballpark) is needed per year?
- where, if anywhere, a closed cycle is used?
- what happened to the strategic helium reserve in the US?
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semiconductor folks! I've seen a lot of talking heads repeat the claim that "a helium shortage is bad for chip production", never substantiated with useful information. do any of you know:
- what is helium actually used in the processes?
- which specific processes would be affected?
- how much helium (ballpark) is needed per year?
- where, if anywhere, a closed cycle is used?
- what happened to the strategic helium reserve in the US?
neither me nor anybody i've talked to so far (including some industry people) could point at any process steps they know involves helium, and i've no idea where this claim originated
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neither me nor anybody i've talked to so far (including some industry people) could point at any process steps they know involves helium, and i've no idea where this claim originated
@whitequark That's a good question ye.
Maybe some of the vapor deposition processes?
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neither me nor anybody i've talked to so far (including some industry people) could point at any process steps they know involves helium, and i've no idea where this claim originated
@whitequark EUV photolithography requires a pure hydrogen atmosphere — great question about helium usage!
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@whitequark EUV photolithography requires a pure hydrogen atmosphere — great question about helium usage!
@krans @whitequark I can at least answer the last question. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Helium_Reserve
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neither me nor anybody i've talked to so far (including some industry people) could point at any process steps they know involves helium, and i've no idea where this claim originated
@whitequark On bsky, the first thing in my TL seems to be there https://fosstodon.org/@AkaSci/116273165320321185
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@krans @whitequark I can at least answer the last question. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Helium_Reserve
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semiconductor folks! I've seen a lot of talking heads repeat the claim that "a helium shortage is bad for chip production", never substantiated with useful information. do any of you know:
- what is helium actually used in the processes?
- which specific processes would be affected?
- how much helium (ballpark) is needed per year?
- where, if anywhere, a closed cycle is used?
- what happened to the strategic helium reserve in the US?
@whitequark the only thing where I heard chip and helium in one sentence was an announcement from a norwegian company who want to replace EUV with helium atoms for smaller prints. But that surely isn't meant lol
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@whitequark @krans I was sure the answer was going to be that it got used for an epic white house slumber party
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neither me nor anybody i've talked to so far (including some industry people) could point at any process steps they know involves helium, and i've no idea where this claim originated
@whitequark I have never heard a good explanation either.
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semiconductor folks! I've seen a lot of talking heads repeat the claim that "a helium shortage is bad for chip production", never substantiated with useful information. do any of you know:
- what is helium actually used in the processes?
- which specific processes would be affected?
- how much helium (ballpark) is needed per year?
- where, if anywhere, a closed cycle is used?
- what happened to the strategic helium reserve in the US?
@whitequark The US strategic reserve was sold dirt cheap to capitalist parasites.
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@whitequark I have never heard a good explanation either.
@gsuberland apparently the primary use, or at least one of the primary uses, is wafer and lens cooling during high temperature processing (so it's used as a heat transfer fluid and mostly recovered); there may also be uses of it as carrier gas or purge gas; I haven't got any numbers still
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@whitequark The US strategic reserve was sold dirt cheap to capitalist parasites.
@dalias I know that, but not what said parasites do with it now, which is the part that interests me
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semiconductor folks! I've seen a lot of talking heads repeat the claim that "a helium shortage is bad for chip production", never substantiated with useful information. do any of you know:
- what is helium actually used in the processes?
- which specific processes would be affected?
- how much helium (ballpark) is needed per year?
- where, if anywhere, a closed cycle is used?
- what happened to the strategic helium reserve in the US?
@whitequark helium is non-reactive, so it’s used as a carrier gas and a chamber control gas (fill the chamber with it and flow your chemical vapor deposition gases into that environment). Different gases have different effects on the temperature control of the chamber for different materials’ growth processes. As a carrier gas I believe helium has the most use in Si-doping.
A few paragraphs on helium’s thermal properties in https://semiengineering.com/using-less-helium-in-semiconductor-manufacturing/
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@whitequark helium is non-reactive, so it’s used as a carrier gas and a chamber control gas (fill the chamber with it and flow your chemical vapor deposition gases into that environment). Different gases have different effects on the temperature control of the chamber for different materials’ growth processes. As a carrier gas I believe helium has the most use in Si-doping.
A few paragraphs on helium’s thermal properties in https://semiengineering.com/using-less-helium-in-semiconductor-manufacturing/
@be_far thanks. I have some background in vacuum systems so this makes a lot of sense. do you know the ballpark number for how much helium is used, after accounting for reclamation?
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semiconductor folks! I've seen a lot of talking heads repeat the claim that "a helium shortage is bad for chip production", never substantiated with useful information. do any of you know:
- what is helium actually used in the processes?
- which specific processes would be affected?
- how much helium (ballpark) is needed per year?
- where, if anywhere, a closed cycle is used?
- what happened to the strategic helium reserve in the US?
@whitequark FWIW, my hunch is, if chipmaking is affected by helium deficit, the troubles would be more likely to hit R&D and possibly the construction of new foundries than ongoing manufacturing processes. Cryocrystallography is a thing in materials science research, and while it used to largely get by with liquid nitrogen, the bleeding^W chattering edge of new research has been shifting steadily coldwards.
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neither me nor anybody i've talked to so far (including some industry people) could point at any process steps they know involves helium, and i've no idea where this claim originated
from some discussion and research, it seems like one of the major uses is in ESC/BSG wafer clamp devices (https://csmantech.org/wp-content/acfrcwduploads/field_5e8cddf5ddd10/post_6573/15.3_Characterization_of_Electrostatic_Chuck.pdf) where flow of helium is less than 20 sccm per chuck.
this represents about 2 micrograms of helium per second per chuck, which i'm not too concerned about. there are of course some other applications that may consume more helium
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@whitequark FWIW, my hunch is, if chipmaking is affected by helium deficit, the troubles would be more likely to hit R&D and possibly the construction of new foundries than ongoing manufacturing processes. Cryocrystallography is a thing in materials science research, and while it used to largely get by with liquid nitrogen, the bleeding^W chattering edge of new research has been shifting steadily coldwards.
@riley yea that's reasonable
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@whitequark That's a good question ye.
Maybe some of the vapor deposition processes?
@Hemera As far as I know, all currently used cold vapour deposition techniques of relevance to (mainstream) chip-making can be done at liquid nitrogen temperature or higher. Quantum computer research might have uses for colder ones. It's not impossible that NSA could be using helium-requiring chips in large numbers, and their supplier(s) would have trouble without helium, but I don't know of solid leaks positively affirming such, so far.
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@Hemera As far as I know, all currently used cold vapour deposition techniques of relevance to (mainstream) chip-making can be done at liquid nitrogen temperature or higher. Quantum computer research might have uses for colder ones. It's not impossible that NSA could be using helium-requiring chips in large numbers, and their supplier(s) would have trouble without helium, but I don't know of solid leaks positively affirming such, so far.
