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  3. Pizza Hut's AI system caused 'cascading' problems and $100M in damages, franchisee alleges in new suithttps://www.businessinsider.com/pizza-hut-ai-system-dragontail-lawsuit-franchisee-2026-5

Pizza Hut's AI system caused 'cascading' problems and $100M in damages, franchisee alleges in new suithttps://www.businessinsider.com/pizza-hut-ai-system-dragontail-lawsuit-franchisee-2026-5

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  • androcat@toot.catA androcat@toot.cat

    @rysiek I have the same issue with deductive logic applied to the real world.

    'Everybody is just "doing it wrong", it's really a good tool, otherwise.'

    Somehow the total preponderance of "human error" in that domain is not a fundamental fault in the tool, can't be, it's infallible, you know!!

    jeantranscene@mastodon.socialJ This user is from outside of this forum
    jeantranscene@mastodon.socialJ This user is from outside of this forum
    jeantranscene@mastodon.social
    wrote last edited by
    #31

    @androcat @rysiek Here you have a tool that's non deterministic in nature, trained on human behavior and which impact have not been fully tested. What were we expecting exactly? But yes, it's absolutely the tool's fault.

    androcat@toot.catA 1 Reply Last reply
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    • jeantranscene@mastodon.socialJ jeantranscene@mastodon.social

      @androcat @rysiek Here you have a tool that's non deterministic in nature, trained on human behavior and which impact have not been fully tested. What were we expecting exactly? But yes, it's absolutely the tool's fault.

      androcat@toot.catA This user is from outside of this forum
      androcat@toot.catA This user is from outside of this forum
      androcat@toot.cat
      wrote last edited by
      #32

      @jeantranscene @rysiek
      Exactly.
      If the tool doesn't work in your domain, do NOT use the tool in that domain.

      Should be simple.

      And yes, the irony of it all is that as bad as deduction is in the domain of reality, it's relatively good in computing.

      And the fuckers go and invent a stochastic tool so they can suck just as badly in computing as deduction sucks in the real world.

      Amazing. We´re the problem. Humanity is a fuck.

      jeantranscene@mastodon.socialJ 1 Reply Last reply
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      • nemobis@mamot.frN nemobis@mamot.fr

        @rysiek «The complaint says DoorDash drivers began waiting to batch multiple orders together after gaining virtual visibility into kitchen systems»

        This sounds like an intentional plan to extract money from restaurants and pump it into the gatekeepers' bank accounts (a joint DoorDash/Pizza Hut goal I presume).

        The main contribution of "AI" is presumably the hope that it provides plausible deniability for said high street robbery.

        anygould@kind.socialA This user is from outside of this forum
        anygould@kind.socialA This user is from outside of this forum
        anygould@kind.social
        wrote last edited by
        #33

        @nemobis @rysiek I read that as the drivers acting rationally - they get paid by the delivery, so why not get paid for 3-4 at once? (And they don't get paid by PH, and clearly DoorDash isn't getting flak for delivering cold/late.)

        rysiek@mstdn.socialR 1 Reply Last reply
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        • rysiek@mstdn.socialR rysiek@mstdn.social

          Pizza Hut's AI system caused 'cascading' problems and $100M in damages, franchisee alleges in new suit
          https://www.businessinsider.com/pizza-hut-ai-system-dragontail-lawsuit-franchisee-2026-5

          > A top Pizza Hut franchisee says the chain's rollout of an AI-powered delivery system turned once-speedy pizza orders into a cold, late-arriving mess — and cratered a business that had been outperforming nearly every other operator in the system.

          #AI #Hype

          rejzor@mastodon.socialR This user is from outside of this forum
          rejzor@mastodon.socialR This user is from outside of this forum
          rejzor@mastodon.social
          wrote last edited by
          #34

          @rysiek Isn't this funny. Some corporate suit went all in with Ai to save hundreds of millions and instead of this idiot getting fired without any bonuses, they'll just fire 5000 people to compensate for the fuckup. And the idiot who pushed this, even if he leaves the company, he's leaving it with a bonus. Fuck up and even be rewarded for it. It's totally fucked way of doing business.

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          • rysiek@mstdn.socialR rysiek@mstdn.social

            Pizza Hut's AI system caused 'cascading' problems and $100M in damages, franchisee alleges in new suit
            https://www.businessinsider.com/pizza-hut-ai-system-dragontail-lawsuit-franchisee-2026-5

            > A top Pizza Hut franchisee says the chain's rollout of an AI-powered delivery system turned once-speedy pizza orders into a cold, late-arriving mess — and cratered a business that had been outperforming nearly every other operator in the system.

            #AI #Hype

            feloniouspunk@beige.partyF This user is from outside of this forum
            feloniouspunk@beige.partyF This user is from outside of this forum
            feloniouspunk@beige.party
            wrote last edited by
            #35

            @rysiek @LoganFive Sounds like it’s more like $100m in lost revenue that was stolen from gig workers to begin with.

            rysiek@mstdn.socialR 1 Reply Last reply
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            • rysiek@mstdn.socialR rysiek@mstdn.social

              Can't wait for all the "no but it's not the AI, they implemented it wrong" replies.

              Somehow whenever slop generators are involved, however incidentally, in something that can be claimed to work, it's "AI DID A THING".

              But when they end up causing problems it's "human error" or "implemented it poorly" or some other form of good old "you're holding it wrong".

              hamishb@mstdn.caH This user is from outside of this forum
              hamishb@mstdn.caH This user is from outside of this forum
              hamishb@mstdn.ca
              wrote last edited by
              #36

              This rhymes closely to when the free-market capitalists complain that their policies of deregulation of financial regulation and austerity for the poor produce nothing but market crashes and more hardship it's because they didn't get to do it hard enough, not because they're the wrong policies.

              @rysiek

              1 Reply Last reply
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              • jollysea@chaos.socialJ jollysea@chaos.social

                @rysiek I hate so-called AI, but in this case it seems to me it was more a "problem" of "giving a little more knowledge and power to delivery drivers"?

                rysiek@mstdn.socialR This user is from outside of this forum
                rysiek@mstdn.socialR This user is from outside of this forum
                rysiek@mstdn.social
                wrote last edited by
                #37

                @jollysea the "problem" was integrating an AI boondoggle (Dragontail) poorly and without understanding the full extent of possible consequences.

                1 Reply Last reply
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                • rysiek@mstdn.socialR This user is from outside of this forum
                  rysiek@mstdn.socialR This user is from outside of this forum
                  rysiek@mstdn.social
                  wrote last edited by
                  #38

                  @notyourfanboy and that exposure was caused by integrating an AI boondoggle (Dragontail) poorly and without understanding the full extent of consequences.

                  1 Reply Last reply
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                  • cnr@fosstodon.orgC cnr@fosstodon.org

                    @jollysea

                    @rysiek 100% this. There is no mention of any AI in the whole text beside the clickbite title

                    rysiek@mstdn.socialR This user is from outside of this forum
                    rysiek@mstdn.socialR This user is from outside of this forum
                    rysiek@mstdn.social
                    wrote last edited by
                    #39

                    @cnr @jollysea there are mentions of Dragontail, which is an AI startup, that got integrated (poorly), leading to that exposure.

                    1 Reply Last reply
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                    • haliphax@hachyderm.ioH haliphax@hachyderm.io

                      @rysiek If you read further...

                      > The complaint says DoorDash drivers began waiting to batch multiple orders together after gaining virtual visibility into kitchen systems, allowing them to see when pizzas would come out of the oven.

                      > Instead of immediately leaving with a completed order, the suit claims drivers waited "up to fifteen (15) minutes" for additional deliveries, increasing the time between when a pizza is removed from the oven rack and when it leaves the building to be delivered. That delay slowed deliveries, disappointed customers, and caused a sharp drop in sales, the suit says.

                      rysiek@mstdn.socialR This user is from outside of this forum
                      rysiek@mstdn.socialR This user is from outside of this forum
                      rysiek@mstdn.social
                      wrote last edited by
                      #40

                      @haliphax and if you read earlier:

                      > In a lawsuit filed on May 6 in Texas Business Court, franchisee Chaac Pizza Northeast accused Pizza Hut of forcing stores to adopt Dragontail, a delivery-management platform that Pizza Hut described as using artificial intelligence to "optimize" food delivery, despite what the suit calls obvious incompatibilities with Chaac's business model.

                      Dragontail is an "AI" startup, so this is a case of integrating an AI boondoggle poorly leading to a bad outcome.

                      1 Reply Last reply
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                      • mighty_orbot@retro.pizzaM mighty_orbot@retro.pizza

                        @rysiek Not exactly right: “Instead of immediately leaving with a completed order, the suit claims drivers waited ‘up to fifteen (15) minutes’ for additional deliveries, increasing the time between when a pizza is removed from the oven rack and when it leaves the building to be delivered. The lawsuit also alleges Dashers could see tip amounts and whether orders were cash payments, making some drivers less likely to accept certain deliveries.”

                        The AI software did exactly what it was supposed to do. The delivery drivers were never meant to have that much access.

                        rysiek@mstdn.socialR This user is from outside of this forum
                        rysiek@mstdn.socialR This user is from outside of this forum
                        rysiek@mstdn.social
                        wrote last edited by
                        #41

                        @mighty_orbot pretty exactly right actually – AI software was integrated poorly and without properly assessing the consequences, leading to a bad outcome.

                        I am going to *bet* there was someone there saying "but this will cause this exact problem" and was silenced "because AI".

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                        • henrik@eliitin-some.fiH henrik@eliitin-some.fi

                          @jollysea @rysiek

                          And the root cause for the dashers to optimize is a crappy earning levels to begin with? (just a guess)

                          rysiek@mstdn.socialR This user is from outside of this forum
                          rysiek@mstdn.socialR This user is from outside of this forum
                          rysiek@mstdn.social
                          wrote last edited by
                          #42

                          @henrik @jollysea if we want to go deeper, root cause is capitalism, yes. But poorly integrating an AI boondoggle caused this particular failure, from the perspective of the company.

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                          • anygould@kind.socialA anygould@kind.social

                            @nemobis @rysiek I read that as the drivers acting rationally - they get paid by the delivery, so why not get paid for 3-4 at once? (And they don't get paid by PH, and clearly DoorDash isn't getting flak for delivering cold/late.)

                            rysiek@mstdn.socialR This user is from outside of this forum
                            rysiek@mstdn.socialR This user is from outside of this forum
                            rysiek@mstdn.social
                            wrote last edited by
                            #43

                            @anyGould @nemobis yes, and all the power to them!

                            But from the perspective of the company that's a problem, and that problem was caused by poorly integrating an AI boondoggle without assessing full extent of consequences.

                            anygould@kind.socialA 1 Reply Last reply
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                            • feloniouspunk@beige.partyF feloniouspunk@beige.party

                              @rysiek @LoganFive Sounds like it’s more like $100m in lost revenue that was stolen from gig workers to begin with.

                              rysiek@mstdn.socialR This user is from outside of this forum
                              rysiek@mstdn.socialR This user is from outside of this forum
                              rysiek@mstdn.social
                              wrote last edited by
                              #44

                              @FeloniousPunk @LoganFive no doubt. The root cause is capitalism.

                              1 Reply Last reply
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                              • rysiek@mstdn.socialR rysiek@mstdn.social

                                Can't wait for all the "no but it's not the AI, they implemented it wrong" replies.

                                Somehow whenever slop generators are involved, however incidentally, in something that can be claimed to work, it's "AI DID A THING".

                                But when they end up causing problems it's "human error" or "implemented it poorly" or some other form of good old "you're holding it wrong".

                                rysiek@mstdn.socialR This user is from outside of this forum
                                rysiek@mstdn.socialR This user is from outside of this forum
                                rysiek@mstdn.social
                                wrote last edited by
                                #45

                                Wow that's a lot of "but actually it's not AI's fault!" responses.

                                So let me explain:
                                1. Gig workers do not get paid nearly enough
                                2. Pizza Hut decides to deploy some AI boondoggle ("Dragontail") without thinking it through, believing the BS about "optimizing delivery with AI"
                                3. Gig workers find a way to play the system
                                4. ???
                                5. Lawsuit

                                Gig workers should have been paid more in the first place, but this is still an example of how jumping on the AI hype train can screw you.

                                Link Preview Image
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                                • rysiek@mstdn.socialR This user is from outside of this forum
                                  rysiek@mstdn.socialR This user is from outside of this forum
                                  rysiek@mstdn.social
                                  wrote last edited by
                                  #46

                                  @notyourfanboy as I said here:
                                  https://mstdn.social/@rysiek/116600986690823575

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                                  • androcat@toot.catA androcat@toot.cat

                                    @jeantranscene @rysiek
                                    Exactly.
                                    If the tool doesn't work in your domain, do NOT use the tool in that domain.

                                    Should be simple.

                                    And yes, the irony of it all is that as bad as deduction is in the domain of reality, it's relatively good in computing.

                                    And the fuckers go and invent a stochastic tool so they can suck just as badly in computing as deduction sucks in the real world.

                                    Amazing. We´re the problem. Humanity is a fuck.

                                    jeantranscene@mastodon.socialJ This user is from outside of this forum
                                    jeantranscene@mastodon.socialJ This user is from outside of this forum
                                    jeantranscene@mastodon.social
                                    wrote last edited by
                                    #47

                                    @androcat @rysiek But in that case the tool did exactly what was asked. Just because an application was produced with the help of an AI doesn't mean you can blindly trust it and release it without any sort of testing. You don't do that with human developer, why should it be any different with AI.

                                    androcat@toot.catA jeantranscene@mastodon.socialJ 2 Replies Last reply
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                                    • rysiek@mstdn.socialR rysiek@mstdn.social

                                      Pizza Hut's AI system caused 'cascading' problems and $100M in damages, franchisee alleges in new suit
                                      https://www.businessinsider.com/pizza-hut-ai-system-dragontail-lawsuit-franchisee-2026-5

                                      > A top Pizza Hut franchisee says the chain's rollout of an AI-powered delivery system turned once-speedy pizza orders into a cold, late-arriving mess — and cratered a business that had been outperforming nearly every other operator in the system.

                                      #AI #Hype

                                      cshlan@dawdling.netC This user is from outside of this forum
                                      cshlan@dawdling.netC This user is from outside of this forum
                                      cshlan@dawdling.net
                                      wrote last edited by
                                      #48

                                      @rysiek
                                      It improved efficiency for the drivers!

                                      #AI #Hype

                                      1 Reply Last reply
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                                      • jeantranscene@mastodon.socialJ jeantranscene@mastodon.social

                                        @androcat @rysiek But in that case the tool did exactly what was asked. Just because an application was produced with the help of an AI doesn't mean you can blindly trust it and release it without any sort of testing. You don't do that with human developer, why should it be any different with AI.

                                        androcat@toot.catA This user is from outside of this forum
                                        androcat@toot.catA This user is from outside of this forum
                                        androcat@toot.cat
                                        wrote last edited by
                                        #49

                                        @jeantranscene

                                        Ultimately the issue here was that "we need something with AI" was the motivation for changing the SW.
                                        Previous SW performed better, because it just did the one thing it was supposed to.
                                        And then the New software tried to be optimizable, with the result that it let couriers do hostile optimization.

                                        @rysiek

                                        1 Reply Last reply
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                                        • rysiek@mstdn.socialR rysiek@mstdn.social

                                          Pizza Hut's AI system caused 'cascading' problems and $100M in damages, franchisee alleges in new suit
                                          https://www.businessinsider.com/pizza-hut-ai-system-dragontail-lawsuit-franchisee-2026-5

                                          > A top Pizza Hut franchisee says the chain's rollout of an AI-powered delivery system turned once-speedy pizza orders into a cold, late-arriving mess — and cratered a business that had been outperforming nearly every other operator in the system.

                                          #AI #Hype

                                          bontchev@infosec.exchangeB This user is from outside of this forum
                                          bontchev@infosec.exchangeB This user is from outside of this forum
                                          bontchev@infosec.exchange
                                          wrote last edited by
                                          #50

                                          @rysiek The way this fuckup happened, reminds of a funny but true story.

                                          When I was student (half a century ago), I participated in a programming competition. (PCs didn't exist back then; we wrote programs in FORTRAN for a mainframe.) The task was to write an algorithm for a machine that returns change. The input data was how many coins and banknotes of each denomination the machine had, and a list of values it had to return. The algorithm had to be clever enough so that if it couldn't use the minimal amount of coins and banknotes, it had to switch to other amounts, using the available quantities. The condition said "process as many transactions as possible", obviously meaning the above level of cleverness.

                                          Well, one chap took the condition way too literally. His program buffered all the change requests until there were no more and *then* re-ordered them, in order to fulfill as many as possible with the available money/denominations.

                                          While it clearly "optimized" things, in real life it would have lead to idiotic delays, just like this case with drivers waiting for all the pizzas to be ready.

                                          argv_minus_one@mastodon.sdf.orgA 1 Reply Last reply
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