I saw a wild take where someone said distributions are fascist for using systemd because systemd now uses Claude for code review.
-
@astraleureka @ariadne Yeah, checked and it's SMP
Which yeah seems quite ridiculous for a microkernel to only get it now but well Hurd is a zombie project that aged decades. -
I saw a wild take where someone said distributions are fascist for using systemd because systemd now uses Claude for code review.
okay. fine, I guess.
but if we are rejecting dependencies that use AI tooling, where do we go?
seriously. where do we go?
if the Linux kernel is using AI tools for codegen, then where do we go?
FreeBSD? I would put money on it that they use AI tools.
OpenBSD? NetBSD? HURD?
do we hard fork every dependency that is now tainted? do we even have the resources to do it?
FreeBSD and Illumos are the only ones reasonably close in the tech tree and I suspect both use AI tools too, as their development, like Linux, is driven by capital.
@ariadne there really is no ethical computer use under capitalism.
-
I saw a wild take where someone said distributions are fascist for using systemd because systemd now uses Claude for code review.
okay. fine, I guess.
but if we are rejecting dependencies that use AI tooling, where do we go?
seriously. where do we go?
if the Linux kernel is using AI tools for codegen, then where do we go?
FreeBSD? I would put money on it that they use AI tools.
OpenBSD? NetBSD? HURD?
do we hard fork every dependency that is now tainted? do we even have the resources to do it?
FreeBSD and Illumos are the only ones reasonably close in the tech tree and I suspect both use AI tools too, as their development, like Linux, is driven by capital.
@ariadne One idea would be to stick to using older systems, perhaps with older hardware, from the times when AI usage wasn't as widespread.
Of course they will have their vulnerabilities, so I'd use them only for processing my own trusted data, and not e.g. executing JavaScript from random websites.
Though let's keep in mind that it applies to personal computers not relying on software delivered with AI. Even if someone was to not use personal computers at all and live an analog life, the exposure to AI-delivered software and machines would still be present, e.g. when having one's sensitive medical data stored on a doctor's computer.
-
@ariadne This one is all wack when like what 3~6 months ago there was a pro-systemd jerk being like "anti-systemd are all facists!"
Also yeah in terms of alternatives it's not great, so far I'm stuck with reducing as much as possible and planning to have more stuff like Plan9.
(Also pretty sure Hurd got LLM-tainted)@lanodan @ariadne re Hurd: I only saw one person doing some LLM review (not of submitted patches but they took it upon themselves to submit its findings), I don't consider that tainted and I don't think it's some sort of official effort or anything, even if I don't like it.
systemd embracing it with a CLAUDE.md, using it in all PRs, commits co-authored-by it etc is different.
-
@astraleureka @lanodan @ariadne No, it was a lot of work by a handful of people over many years. It has nothing to do with LLMs.
-
I saw a wild take where someone said distributions are fascist for using systemd because systemd now uses Claude for code review.
okay. fine, I guess.
but if we are rejecting dependencies that use AI tooling, where do we go?
seriously. where do we go?
if the Linux kernel is using AI tools for codegen, then where do we go?
FreeBSD? I would put money on it that they use AI tools.
OpenBSD? NetBSD? HURD?
do we hard fork every dependency that is now tainted? do we even have the resources to do it?
FreeBSD and Illumos are the only ones reasonably close in the tech tree and I suspect both use AI tools too, as their development, like Linux, is driven by capital.
@ariadne we stay on the last non slip taunted release and wait a year or two while it all burns down?
-
@lanodan @ariadne re Hurd: I only saw one person doing some LLM review (not of submitted patches but they took it upon themselves to submit its findings), I don't consider that tainted and I don't think it's some sort of official effort or anything, even if I don't like it.
systemd embracing it with a CLAUDE.md, using it in all PRs, commits co-authored-by it etc is different.
Hurd using LLMs for reviews: perfectly ok
systemd using LLMs for reviews: TAINTEDDId I get this right?
-
@astraleureka @lanodan @ariadne No, it was a lot of work by a handful of people over many years. It has nothing to do with LLMs.
@thesamesam @astraleureka @lanodan @ariadne yeah sure, if you exclude some tiny details like, er, SMP support https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/bug-hurd/2026-02/msg00133.html
Enjoy your single-core UNTAINTED systems forever, I guess?
-
@ariadne nah, not fine, actually. It's a complete warping of reality that removes all meaning from the word "fascist" and turns it into nothing but a generic insult - probably not intentionally, but definitely as a means to personally get attention.
@lambda hence "I guess".
-
@thesamesam @astraleureka @lanodan @ariadne yeah sure, if you exclude some tiny details like, er, SMP support https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/bug-hurd/2026-02/msg00133.html
Enjoy your single-core UNTAINTED systems forever, I guess?
@bluca @astraleureka @lanodan @ariadne I don't think their work was used at all. But I'm not arguing everyone should switch to Hurd, I'm just saying I don't think it's tainted, and I think some random person (same person each time) sending LLM content a handful of times to an ML isn't the same thing?
-
Hurd using LLMs for reviews: perfectly ok
systemd using LLMs for reviews: TAINTEDDId I get this right?
-
I saw a wild take where someone said distributions are fascist for using systemd because systemd now uses Claude for code review.
okay. fine, I guess.
but if we are rejecting dependencies that use AI tooling, where do we go?
seriously. where do we go?
if the Linux kernel is using AI tools for codegen, then where do we go?
FreeBSD? I would put money on it that they use AI tools.
OpenBSD? NetBSD? HURD?
do we hard fork every dependency that is now tainted? do we even have the resources to do it?
FreeBSD and Illumos are the only ones reasonably close in the tech tree and I suspect both use AI tools too, as their development, like Linux, is driven by capital.
i guess my point here is that reactionary behavior does not really benefit anyone and just leads to bad decisions
-
I saw a wild take where someone said distributions are fascist for using systemd because systemd now uses Claude for code review.
okay. fine, I guess.
but if we are rejecting dependencies that use AI tooling, where do we go?
seriously. where do we go?
if the Linux kernel is using AI tools for codegen, then where do we go?
FreeBSD? I would put money on it that they use AI tools.
OpenBSD? NetBSD? HURD?
do we hard fork every dependency that is now tainted? do we even have the resources to do it?
FreeBSD and Illumos are the only ones reasonably close in the tech tree and I suspect both use AI tools too, as their development, like Linux, is driven by capital.
@ariadne what makes (current) hobbyist stuff like REDOX OS just that more exciting.
With such a strong/rigid take, yeah I don’t know where they’d expect folks to immediately move to.
-
@ariadne what makes (current) hobbyist stuff like REDOX OS just that more exciting.
With such a strong/rigid take, yeah I don’t know where they’d expect folks to immediately move to.
@colinstu but that's the thing. redox is not a project that we can shift our production computing to immediately.
-
@lanodan @ariadne re Hurd: I only saw one person doing some LLM review (not of submitted patches but they took it upon themselves to submit its findings), I don't consider that tainted and I don't think it's some sort of official effort or anything, even if I don't like it.
systemd embracing it with a CLAUDE.md, using it in all PRs, commits co-authored-by it etc is different.
@thesamesam @ariadne Ah so not yet tainted, but still meh social wise that I guess could be addressed via policy/guidelines. -
@thesamesam @lanodan @ariadne gotcha, rules for thee but not for me
-
@thesamesam @lanodan @ariadne gotcha, rules for thee but not for me
-
i guess my point here is that reactionary behavior does not really benefit anyone and just leads to bad decisions
@ariadne it's protestantism but swapping the god from the ethereal one to "reason". if you are bad you are tainted permanently and must stone; if they stopped using AI tools it would also not be enough because they are "tainted".
this pattern repeats over and over from people who unlearned one piece but didn't deprogram the religious dogmatic patterns, and you end up here.
is Linux foundation funding the destruction of jobs, removing human contributions, destroying the world with debt, any of that? of course not! but it's still dogma.
I don't have a good answer to this, just to remind people what the actual goals and actions of orgs are and hope they listen.
-
@colinstu but that's the thing. redox is not a project that we can shift our production computing to immediately.
@ariadne indeed it’s not. Yeah the argument right now (to move asap) is just a nonstarter. It’s gong to take time (if ever) to de-AI codebases and projects. There isn’t going to be any simple fix or solution to it
For those who hold onto this, what do they use currently? They actually reap what they sow?
-
@ariadne it's protestantism but swapping the god from the ethereal one to "reason". if you are bad you are tainted permanently and must stone; if they stopped using AI tools it would also not be enough because they are "tainted".
this pattern repeats over and over from people who unlearned one piece but didn't deprogram the religious dogmatic patterns, and you end up here.
is Linux foundation funding the destruction of jobs, removing human contributions, destroying the world with debt, any of that? of course not! but it's still dogma.
I don't have a good answer to this, just to remind people what the actual goals and actions of orgs are and hope they listen.
@ariadne I don't want to see the world eaten by AI but people use the tool and it drives results for them. There's nowhere much else to go.
It's like Stallman arguing for owning every piece of your machine - eventually, you have some closed source firmware blob. Purity vs reality.
