I saw a wild take where someone said distributions are fascist for using systemd because systemd now uses Claude for code review.
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I saw a wild take where someone said distributions are fascist for using systemd because systemd now uses Claude for code review.
okay. fine, I guess.
but if we are rejecting dependencies that use AI tooling, where do we go?
seriously. where do we go?
if the Linux kernel is using AI tools for codegen, then where do we go?
FreeBSD? I would put money on it that they use AI tools.
OpenBSD? NetBSD? HURD?
do we hard fork every dependency that is now tainted? do we even have the resources to do it?
FreeBSD and Illumos are the only ones reasonably close in the tech tree and I suspect both use AI tools too, as their development, like Linux, is driven by capital.
@ariadne there's no "if", the kernel does use LLMs extensively, right now: https://www.theregister.com/2026/03/26/greg_kroahhartman_ai_kernel/ precisely and exactly the same policy as systemd has. LIterally the same. And yet these lunatic takes never demand Linux distros drop Linux. I wonder why ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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I saw a wild take where someone said distributions are fascist for using systemd because systemd now uses Claude for code review.
okay. fine, I guess.
but if we are rejecting dependencies that use AI tooling, where do we go?
seriously. where do we go?
if the Linux kernel is using AI tools for codegen, then where do we go?
FreeBSD? I would put money on it that they use AI tools.
OpenBSD? NetBSD? HURD?
do we hard fork every dependency that is now tainted? do we even have the resources to do it?
FreeBSD and Illumos are the only ones reasonably close in the tech tree and I suspect both use AI tools too, as their development, like Linux, is driven by capital.
@ariadne Relevant discussions:
Thom, exceedingly pure (@thomholwerda@exquisite.social)
Both the Linux kernel and systemd now contain slop or are open to adding slop. I have nowhere to go.
Exquisite.social (exquisite.social)
Thom, exceedingly pure (@thomholwerda@exquisite.social)
With both the Linux kernel and systemd infected by "AI" and now also the first steps towards government-mandated age-gating and thus the definitive end of privacy, I feel more done with technology than ever before. I'm just tired, Fedi. I just want to make the pixels go bleep-bloop in weird ways so I can feel smug towards Windows and Apple users. Is that really too much to ask?
Exquisite.social (exquisite.social)
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I saw a wild take where someone said distributions are fascist for using systemd because systemd now uses Claude for code review.
okay. fine, I guess.
but if we are rejecting dependencies that use AI tooling, where do we go?
seriously. where do we go?
if the Linux kernel is using AI tools for codegen, then where do we go?
FreeBSD? I would put money on it that they use AI tools.
OpenBSD? NetBSD? HURD?
do we hard fork every dependency that is now tainted? do we even have the resources to do it?
FreeBSD and Illumos are the only ones reasonably close in the tech tree and I suspect both use AI tools too, as their development, like Linux, is driven by capital.
@ariadne I'm (somewhat unwillingly) slowly drifting to "ok, use AI for review, then"… people generally understand and accept you can't have AI both write and review the same code, and between these two choices one is a massive dick move on FOSS maintainers while the other is vaguely stomachable if you don't think about it too much 🫤
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I saw a wild take where someone said distributions are fascist for using systemd because systemd now uses Claude for code review.
okay. fine, I guess.
but if we are rejecting dependencies that use AI tooling, where do we go?
seriously. where do we go?
if the Linux kernel is using AI tools for codegen, then where do we go?
FreeBSD? I would put money on it that they use AI tools.
OpenBSD? NetBSD? HURD?
do we hard fork every dependency that is now tainted? do we even have the resources to do it?
FreeBSD and Illumos are the only ones reasonably close in the tech tree and I suspect both use AI tools too, as their development, like Linux, is driven by capital.
@ariadne nah, not fine, actually. It's a complete warping of reality that removes all meaning from the word "fascist" and turns it into nothing but a generic insult - probably not intentionally, but definitely as a means to personally get attention.
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@ariadne redox-os has a no llm policy. But i am not sure how close it is at being production ready
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I saw a wild take where someone said distributions are fascist for using systemd because systemd now uses Claude for code review.
okay. fine, I guess.
but if we are rejecting dependencies that use AI tooling, where do we go?
seriously. where do we go?
if the Linux kernel is using AI tools for codegen, then where do we go?
FreeBSD? I would put money on it that they use AI tools.
OpenBSD? NetBSD? HURD?
do we hard fork every dependency that is now tainted? do we even have the resources to do it?
FreeBSD and Illumos are the only ones reasonably close in the tech tree and I suspect both use AI tools too, as their development, like Linux, is driven by capital.
@ariadne we'll see what happens when the bubble bursts and prices start reconciling with reality
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I saw a wild take where someone said distributions are fascist for using systemd because systemd now uses Claude for code review.
okay. fine, I guess.
but if we are rejecting dependencies that use AI tooling, where do we go?
seriously. where do we go?
if the Linux kernel is using AI tools for codegen, then where do we go?
FreeBSD? I would put money on it that they use AI tools.
OpenBSD? NetBSD? HURD?
do we hard fork every dependency that is now tainted? do we even have the resources to do it?
FreeBSD and Illumos are the only ones reasonably close in the tech tree and I suspect both use AI tools too, as their development, like Linux, is driven by capital.
@ariadne This one is all wack when like what 3~6 months ago there was a pro-systemd jerk being like "anti-systemd are all facists!"
Also yeah in terms of alternatives it's not great, so far I'm stuck with reducing as much as possible and planning to have more stuff like Plan9.
(Also pretty sure Hurd got LLM-tainted) -
I saw a wild take where someone said distributions are fascist for using systemd because systemd now uses Claude for code review.
okay. fine, I guess.
but if we are rejecting dependencies that use AI tooling, where do we go?
seriously. where do we go?
if the Linux kernel is using AI tools for codegen, then where do we go?
FreeBSD? I would put money on it that they use AI tools.
OpenBSD? NetBSD? HURD?
do we hard fork every dependency that is now tainted? do we even have the resources to do it?
FreeBSD and Illumos are the only ones reasonably close in the tech tree and I suspect both use AI tools too, as their development, like Linux, is driven by capital.
@ariadne that seems like a stretch.
Ideally, yeah, sure, let’s hard fork everything tainted by LLMs. Practically? Shit if I know. When will people stop using these stupid things? -
@ariadne This one is all wack when like what 3~6 months ago there was a pro-systemd jerk being like "anti-systemd are all facists!"
Also yeah in terms of alternatives it's not great, so far I'm stuck with reducing as much as possible and planning to have more stuff like Plan9.
(Also pretty sure Hurd got LLM-tainted) -
@astraleureka @ariadne IIRC it's SMP rather than 64-bit but same sort of "Huh? Everyone got that stuff, come on"
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@astraleureka @ariadne IIRC it's SMP rather than 64-bit but same sort of "Huh? Everyone got that stuff, come on"
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I saw a wild take where someone said distributions are fascist for using systemd because systemd now uses Claude for code review.
okay. fine, I guess.
but if we are rejecting dependencies that use AI tooling, where do we go?
seriously. where do we go?
if the Linux kernel is using AI tools for codegen, then where do we go?
FreeBSD? I would put money on it that they use AI tools.
OpenBSD? NetBSD? HURD?
do we hard fork every dependency that is now tainted? do we even have the resources to do it?
FreeBSD and Illumos are the only ones reasonably close in the tech tree and I suspect both use AI tools too, as their development, like Linux, is driven by capital.
@ariadne I see it as a "pick your fight"-thing: before LLMs, most users (me definitely included) had the same problem: we have to trust the maintainers. From my perspective, whether they use such tools or not doesnt really matter, since I cant review 95% of my tech stack anyway ,simply due to lack of time.
i think software will deteriorate in general by using llms extensively, tho proprietary even more so than free software. Unless I find years to spare, the choice is easy.
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@astraleureka @ariadne Yeah, checked and it's SMP
Which yeah seems quite ridiculous for a microkernel to only get it now but well Hurd is a zombie project that aged decades. -
I saw a wild take where someone said distributions are fascist for using systemd because systemd now uses Claude for code review.
okay. fine, I guess.
but if we are rejecting dependencies that use AI tooling, where do we go?
seriously. where do we go?
if the Linux kernel is using AI tools for codegen, then where do we go?
FreeBSD? I would put money on it that they use AI tools.
OpenBSD? NetBSD? HURD?
do we hard fork every dependency that is now tainted? do we even have the resources to do it?
FreeBSD and Illumos are the only ones reasonably close in the tech tree and I suspect both use AI tools too, as their development, like Linux, is driven by capital.
@ariadne there really is no ethical computer use under capitalism.
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I saw a wild take where someone said distributions are fascist for using systemd because systemd now uses Claude for code review.
okay. fine, I guess.
but if we are rejecting dependencies that use AI tooling, where do we go?
seriously. where do we go?
if the Linux kernel is using AI tools for codegen, then where do we go?
FreeBSD? I would put money on it that they use AI tools.
OpenBSD? NetBSD? HURD?
do we hard fork every dependency that is now tainted? do we even have the resources to do it?
FreeBSD and Illumos are the only ones reasonably close in the tech tree and I suspect both use AI tools too, as their development, like Linux, is driven by capital.
@ariadne One idea would be to stick to using older systems, perhaps with older hardware, from the times when AI usage wasn't as widespread.
Of course they will have their vulnerabilities, so I'd use them only for processing my own trusted data, and not e.g. executing JavaScript from random websites.
Though let's keep in mind that it applies to personal computers not relying on software delivered with AI. Even if someone was to not use personal computers at all and live an analog life, the exposure to AI-delivered software and machines would still be present, e.g. when having one's sensitive medical data stored on a doctor's computer.
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@ariadne This one is all wack when like what 3~6 months ago there was a pro-systemd jerk being like "anti-systemd are all facists!"
Also yeah in terms of alternatives it's not great, so far I'm stuck with reducing as much as possible and planning to have more stuff like Plan9.
(Also pretty sure Hurd got LLM-tainted)@lanodan @ariadne re Hurd: I only saw one person doing some LLM review (not of submitted patches but they took it upon themselves to submit its findings), I don't consider that tainted and I don't think it's some sort of official effort or anything, even if I don't like it.
systemd embracing it with a CLAUDE.md, using it in all PRs, commits co-authored-by it etc is different.
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@astraleureka @lanodan @ariadne No, it was a lot of work by a handful of people over many years. It has nothing to do with LLMs.
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I saw a wild take where someone said distributions are fascist for using systemd because systemd now uses Claude for code review.
okay. fine, I guess.
but if we are rejecting dependencies that use AI tooling, where do we go?
seriously. where do we go?
if the Linux kernel is using AI tools for codegen, then where do we go?
FreeBSD? I would put money on it that they use AI tools.
OpenBSD? NetBSD? HURD?
do we hard fork every dependency that is now tainted? do we even have the resources to do it?
FreeBSD and Illumos are the only ones reasonably close in the tech tree and I suspect both use AI tools too, as their development, like Linux, is driven by capital.
@ariadne we stay on the last non slip taunted release and wait a year or two while it all burns down?
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@lanodan @ariadne re Hurd: I only saw one person doing some LLM review (not of submitted patches but they took it upon themselves to submit its findings), I don't consider that tainted and I don't think it's some sort of official effort or anything, even if I don't like it.
systemd embracing it with a CLAUDE.md, using it in all PRs, commits co-authored-by it etc is different.
Hurd using LLMs for reviews: perfectly ok
systemd using LLMs for reviews: TAINTEDDId I get this right?
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@astraleureka @lanodan @ariadne No, it was a lot of work by a handful of people over many years. It has nothing to do with LLMs.
@thesamesam @astraleureka @lanodan @ariadne yeah sure, if you exclude some tiny details like, er, SMP support https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/bug-hurd/2026-02/msg00133.html
Enjoy your single-core UNTAINTED systems forever, I guess?
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