“can you recommend an alternative?” no. that’s why I’m so fucking angry.
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@zzt Are we not in the alternative right now?
It can be built but can we steer lemmings to use it?
@joegaffey @zzt if your answer starts "well i'm a snide hipster, but" then you have singularly failed to understand the question
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@t_var_s @tux0r @zzt fsvo. distributed irc was shit in extremely tired ways, somehow combining the worst of decentralised with the worst of feudalised. it only "works" on a single well-run server, and we're back to the original problem.
i met my wife on irc, i have a fondness for it. it still doesn't answer the question.
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@t_var_s @tux0r @zzt fsvo. distributed irc was shit in extremely tired ways, somehow combining the worst of decentralised with the worst of feudalised. it only "works" on a single well-run server, and we're back to the original problem.
i met my wife on irc, i have a fondness for it. it still doesn't answer the question.
@davidgerard @t_var_s @tux0r @zzt I have no fond memories of IRC usability wise. The UX was already bad in the 2000s, and from the little contact I've had with it since, there has been no improvement.
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@zzt Reading this on the fediverse while nodding vigorously.
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@davidgerard @t_var_s @tux0r @zzt I have no fond memories of IRC usability wise. The UX was already bad in the 2000s, and from the little contact I've had with it since, there has been no improvement.
@Kiloku @davidgerard @t_var_s @zzt IRCv3 is shaping up pretty nicely, everything else is an implementation detail.
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@davidgerard Weirdos of the World, Unite @matthew @zzt
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@zzt Are we not in the alternative right now?
It can be built but can we steer lemmings to use it?@joegaffey @zzt maybe it starts by not comparing your users (the 95%+ of humanity that doesn't have an inexplicable boner for arcane computer nonsense) to lemmings
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@t_var_s @tux0r @zzt fsvo. distributed irc was shit in extremely tired ways, somehow combining the worst of decentralised with the worst of feudalised. it only "works" on a single well-run server, and we're back to the original problem.
i met my wife on irc, i have a fondness for it. it still doesn't answer the question.
@davidgerard @t_var_s @tux0r @zzt
<DrCuriosity> Yes.
<DrCuriosity> There are some things I don't miss.
* DrCuriosity has quit (*.net *.split) -
@joegaffey @zzt maybe it starts by not comparing your users (the 95%+ of humanity that doesn't have an inexplicable boner for arcane computer nonsense) to lemmings
@anhedonie @joegaffey @zzt if they can't telnet 6667 can they even really be allowed to use the computer
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@davidgerard @t_var_s @tux0r @zzt
<DrCuriosity> Yes.
<DrCuriosity> There are some things I don't miss.
* DrCuriosity has quit (*.net *.split)@DrCuriosity @t_var_s @tux0r @zzt
IRC's fragile spanning tree structure is the root problem but i don't know how we'd do cross-tree links without all sorts of weirdness
there's probably a solution involving terrible hand rolled cryptography that also doesn't solve the problem
(as with so many such problems)
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@DrCuriosity @t_var_s @tux0r @zzt
IRC's fragile spanning tree structure is the root problem but i don't know how we'd do cross-tree links without all sorts of weirdness
there's probably a solution involving terrible hand rolled cryptography that also doesn't solve the problem
(as with so many such problems)
@DrCuriosity @t_var_s @tux0r @zzt discord basically worked in ways irc didn't. if you don't understand that, you don't understand the question.
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@DrCuriosity @t_var_s @tux0r @zzt discord basically worked in ways irc didn't. if you don't understand that, you don't understand the question.
@davidgerard @DrCuriosity @t_var_s @zzt Webshit isn't a "way to work" though.
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@davidgerard @DrCuriosity @t_var_s @zzt Webshit isn't a "way to work" though.
@tux0r @DrCuriosity @t_var_s @zzt i'm not sure you understand the question at hand.
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@anhedonie @joegaffey @zzt if they can't telnet 6667 can they even really be allowed to use the computer
the key problem is that nobody wants to run a box
they want to use a service
that ends directly at discord
mastodon has the advantage that it actually successfully decentralised, and 75% of users can and do tell eugen to go whistle
it has the disadvantage that you can see the wires and plumbing and worst, the guys loudly telling you that the leaks and sparks and flames and outages are features akhully
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the key problem is that nobody wants to run a box
they want to use a service
that ends directly at discord
mastodon has the advantage that it actually successfully decentralised, and 75% of users can and do tell eugen to go whistle
it has the disadvantage that you can see the wires and plumbing and worst, the guys loudly telling you that the leaks and sparks and flames and outages are features akhully
@davidgerard @anhedonie @joegaffey @zzt and worse than just seeing the plumbing, there is no real model to buy a box and then call a plumber when you need the sewage flushed
You either give a company the right to all your personal info so they can shove ads in your eyes or you learn enough about admin to be able to run it with the help of a hosting service you pay a sub to. There's no Middle model that mostly just works with occasional maintenance like plumbing
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don’t come to this thread to argue. get angry and fucking do something about it. you feel trapped? good. welcome in. it fucking sucks in here.
@zzt
Do you know the best place to start making a difference?I'm super out of my depth but from today it seems like XMPP might be a viable way forward in terms of large-scale community platforms like discord? Does it lack for decent clients or... are we really so far behind that we don't even have a base to build upon?
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@zzt @arthfach @loke but how many communities have people who can do that? and how many of those people will stick around for the lifetime of that community to keep it running? I'd wager there are at least an order of magnitude more community builders than server runners even amongst Discord users.
really, it's a political question. *who* are you building a new system for?
