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CIRCLE WITH A DOT

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  3. Unlike my floppy drive box, only a single goat has pissed on my PCjr box

Unlike my floppy drive box, only a single goat has pissed on my PCjr box

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retrocomputingvcf
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  • gloriouscow@oldbytes.spaceG gloriouscow@oldbytes.space

    But the PCjr has no DMA controller. Ruh roh! How are we going to refresh the DRAM??

    Easy peasy. We just make the system RAM also the video RAM. As the PCjr's VGA reads video memory to scan out to the display, it hits all the RAS and CAS lines and we get our DRAM refreshed! Yay!

    Except our CPU can't access RAM while it is doing this! Boo!

    gloriouscow@oldbytes.spaceG This user is from outside of this forum
    gloriouscow@oldbytes.spaceG This user is from outside of this forum
    gloriouscow@oldbytes.space
    wrote last edited by
    #65

    IBM tells us the CPU gets one cycle every 1.1 microseconds, which is practically an eon in computer time. A CPU cycle at 4.77MHz is around 200ns, for comparison.

    IBM gives some handwavy math to explain how you might see 2 wait states as a result. In unlucky code sequences you could see 3-5.

    This made your peanut slow 😞

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    gloriouscow@oldbytes.spaceG 1 Reply Last reply
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    • gloriouscow@oldbytes.spaceG gloriouscow@oldbytes.space

      The PCjr has a Video Gate Array. You're thinking about the later 256 color standard, the Video Graphics Array.

      Easy mistake to make. Tandy's version of this would get unofficially named "TGA", something you might have seen when selecting your graphics options in that spiffy new DOS game you just bought.

      In any case, the PCjr has no dedicated video memory, the system has shared memory. Just like your fancy new MacBook! Okay nothing at all like that, actually, because if you hadn't guessed by now, it's terrible.

      techtangents@dialup.spaceT This user is from outside of this forum
      techtangents@dialup.spaceT This user is from outside of this forum
      techtangents@dialup.space
      wrote last edited by
      #66

      @gloriouscow
      It's a good thing that a "Tandy" "Gate Array" doesn't have any other meanings either, nope none at all...

      gloriouscow@oldbytes.spaceG 1 Reply Last reply
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      • gloriouscow@oldbytes.spaceG gloriouscow@oldbytes.space

        IBM tells us the CPU gets one cycle every 1.1 microseconds, which is practically an eon in computer time. A CPU cycle at 4.77MHz is around 200ns, for comparison.

        IBM gives some handwavy math to explain how you might see 2 wait states as a result. In unlucky code sequences you could see 3-5.

        This made your peanut slow 😞

        Link Preview Image
        gloriouscow@oldbytes.spaceG This user is from outside of this forum
        gloriouscow@oldbytes.spaceG This user is from outside of this forum
        gloriouscow@oldbytes.space
        wrote last edited by
        #67

        Manufacturers of RAM expansion cards had to provide refresh circuitry for the RAM sitting on their expansion cards, because your PCjr's VGA did not access it.

        This wasn't something your IBM PC memory expansion card needed to worry about, because the PC will refresh any extra memory your put in (set your jumpers properly!)

        But it also means that code running out of a PCjr RAM expansion sidecar could, in theory, run even faster than on its big older brother. Yay, peanut!

        gloriouscow@oldbytes.spaceG 1 Reply Last reply
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        • gloriouscow@oldbytes.spaceG gloriouscow@oldbytes.space

          Manufacturers of RAM expansion cards had to provide refresh circuitry for the RAM sitting on their expansion cards, because your PCjr's VGA did not access it.

          This wasn't something your IBM PC memory expansion card needed to worry about, because the PC will refresh any extra memory your put in (set your jumpers properly!)

          But it also means that code running out of a PCjr RAM expansion sidecar could, in theory, run even faster than on its big older brother. Yay, peanut!

          gloriouscow@oldbytes.spaceG This user is from outside of this forum
          gloriouscow@oldbytes.spaceG This user is from outside of this forum
          gloriouscow@oldbytes.space
          wrote last edited by
          #68

          Code running out of the ROM , like the BIOS, and any cartridge you might have plugged in before everyone gave up on that idea, was also fast.

          gloriouscow@oldbytes.spaceG 1 Reply Last reply
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          • gloriouscow@oldbytes.spaceG gloriouscow@oldbytes.space

            Code running out of the ROM , like the BIOS, and any cartridge you might have plugged in before everyone gave up on that idea, was also fast.

            gloriouscow@oldbytes.spaceG This user is from outside of this forum
            gloriouscow@oldbytes.spaceG This user is from outside of this forum
            gloriouscow@oldbytes.space
            wrote last edited by
            #69

            Tandy, when copying the PCjr to make the Tandy 1000, looked at this and saw that it was bad.

            The Tandy 1000 also has a 128K window of shared DRAM, but they did two things to make the Tandy 1000 not terrible.

            First, they shuffled some stuff around and tweaked some timings and basically halved the number of wait states required. Yay!

            Secondly, they made the 128K shared window configurable - the system would normally move it to the top of RAM, where you were less likely to need to run code out of it, especially important stuff like DOS. Yay!

            gloriouscow@oldbytes.spaceG 1 Reply Last reply
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            • gloriouscow@oldbytes.spaceG gloriouscow@oldbytes.space

              Tandy, when copying the PCjr to make the Tandy 1000, looked at this and saw that it was bad.

              The Tandy 1000 also has a 128K window of shared DRAM, but they did two things to make the Tandy 1000 not terrible.

              First, they shuffled some stuff around and tweaked some timings and basically halved the number of wait states required. Yay!

              Secondly, they made the 128K shared window configurable - the system would normally move it to the top of RAM, where you were less likely to need to run code out of it, especially important stuff like DOS. Yay!

              gloriouscow@oldbytes.spaceG This user is from outside of this forum
              gloriouscow@oldbytes.spaceG This user is from outside of this forum
              gloriouscow@oldbytes.space
              wrote last edited by
              #70

              On some later Tandys you can even install a whopping 768K of RAM and have the 128K of video memory live up there above the 640K boundary and have your cake and eat it too.

              There was a lot of cool stuff the VGA/TGA could do. I mean, being able to instantly switch to rendering graphics anywhere in a 128K window was a pretty crazy cool feature when you think about it - the CGA only had a measly 16K of video memory by comparison.

              Unfortunately, nobody was going to make a game that relied on that, because your game had to work on the PC if you actually liked, you know, making money.

              gloriouscow@oldbytes.spaceG 1 Reply Last reply
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              • techtangents@dialup.spaceT techtangents@dialup.space

                @gloriouscow
                It's a good thing that a "Tandy" "Gate Array" doesn't have any other meanings either, nope none at all...

                gloriouscow@oldbytes.spaceG This user is from outside of this forum
                gloriouscow@oldbytes.spaceG This user is from outside of this forum
                gloriouscow@oldbytes.space
                wrote last edited by
                #71

                @TechTangents so much future Tandyposting to do

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                • gloriouscow@oldbytes.spaceG gloriouscow@oldbytes.space

                  On some later Tandys you can even install a whopping 768K of RAM and have the 128K of video memory live up there above the 640K boundary and have your cake and eat it too.

                  There was a lot of cool stuff the VGA/TGA could do. I mean, being able to instantly switch to rendering graphics anywhere in a 128K window was a pretty crazy cool feature when you think about it - the CGA only had a measly 16K of video memory by comparison.

                  Unfortunately, nobody was going to make a game that relied on that, because your game had to work on the PC if you actually liked, you know, making money.

                  gloriouscow@oldbytes.spaceG This user is from outside of this forum
                  gloriouscow@oldbytes.spaceG This user is from outside of this forum
                  gloriouscow@oldbytes.space
                  wrote last edited by
                  #72

                  Shall we see if my peanut even boots?

                  gloriouscow@oldbytes.spaceG 1 Reply Last reply
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                  • gloriouscow@oldbytes.spaceG gloriouscow@oldbytes.space

                    Shall we see if my peanut even boots?

                    gloriouscow@oldbytes.spaceG This user is from outside of this forum
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                    gloriouscow@oldbytes.space
                    wrote last edited by
                    #73

                    Will it turn on, or will it explode?

                    #retrocomputing

                    gloriouscow@oldbytes.spaceG brouhaha@mastodon.socialB 2 Replies Last reply
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                    • gloriouscow@oldbytes.spaceG gloriouscow@oldbytes.space

                      The IBM PC uses the 8253 timer and 8237 DMA controller to refresh the system's DRAM. The D in DRAM stands for Dynamic and dynamic means if we do not refresh the RAM by accessing it periodically the contents go bye-byte.

                      Doing this saved IBM a decent amount of money on making dedicated refresh circuitry, at the cost of about 5-6% of your CPU performance.

                      C This user is from outside of this forum
                      C This user is from outside of this forum
                      crazyc@mastodon.social
                      wrote last edited by
                      #74

                      @gloriouscow The 8257 is pretty mid, good thing IBM used the somewhat better 8237.

                      gloriouscow@oldbytes.spaceG 2 Replies Last reply
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                      • C crazyc@mastodon.social

                        @gloriouscow The 8257 is pretty mid, good thing IBM used the somewhat better 8237.

                        gloriouscow@oldbytes.spaceG This user is from outside of this forum
                        gloriouscow@oldbytes.spaceG This user is from outside of this forum
                        gloriouscow@oldbytes.space
                        wrote last edited by
                        #75

                        @crazyc 😛

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                        • gloriouscow@oldbytes.spaceG gloriouscow@oldbytes.space

                          Will it turn on, or will it explode?

                          #retrocomputing

                          gloriouscow@oldbytes.spaceG This user is from outside of this forum
                          gloriouscow@oldbytes.spaceG This user is from outside of this forum
                          gloriouscow@oldbytes.space
                          wrote last edited by
                          #76

                          I'm currently having all the wireless IBM Keyboard Adventures, and you're not. Jealous?

                          I'm sitting about ten feet away from the peanut and the keyboard seems to work just fine. Although, this is a fresh set of batteries, and it's relatively dim in here because I live like some kind of techno-troll.

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                          • C crazyc@mastodon.social

                            @gloriouscow The 8257 is pretty mid, good thing IBM used the somewhat better 8237.

                            gloriouscow@oldbytes.spaceG This user is from outside of this forum
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                            gloriouscow@oldbytes.space
                            wrote last edited by
                            #77

                            @crazyc you ever consider how many neurons you're using to remember intel peripheral chip numbers

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                            • gloriouscow@oldbytes.spaceG gloriouscow@oldbytes.space

                              I'm currently having all the wireless IBM Keyboard Adventures, and you're not. Jealous?

                              I'm sitting about ten feet away from the peanut and the keyboard seems to work just fine. Although, this is a fresh set of batteries, and it's relatively dim in here because I live like some kind of techno-troll.

                              Link Preview Image
                              gloriouscow@oldbytes.spaceG This user is from outside of this forum
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                              gloriouscow@oldbytes.space
                              wrote last edited by
                              #78

                              obviously there's zero authentication to an IR keyboard.

                              it would be fun to make a tiny little emitter that could send text to a PCjr and then find the next person exhibiting one at VCF and send them messages from a few tables over.

                              gloriouscow@oldbytes.spaceG 1 Reply Last reply
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                              • gloriouscow@oldbytes.spaceG gloriouscow@oldbytes.space

                                @crazyc you ever consider how many neurons you're using to remember intel peripheral chip numbers

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                                C This user is from outside of this forum
                                crazyc@mastodon.social
                                wrote last edited by
                                #79

                                @gloriouscow Lets talk about the 8274, 8256 and 82720. Or better, lets not. (the 8256 is required to emulate the Philips :Yes and I don't wanna do it)

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                                • gloriouscow@oldbytes.spaceG gloriouscow@oldbytes.space

                                  obviously there's zero authentication to an IR keyboard.

                                  it would be fun to make a tiny little emitter that could send text to a PCjr and then find the next person exhibiting one at VCF and send them messages from a few tables over.

                                  gloriouscow@oldbytes.spaceG This user is from outside of this forum
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                                  gloriouscow@oldbytes.space
                                  wrote last edited by
                                  #80

                                  IBM mentions in passing in the technical reference that you could make other IR accessories for the system, but it was up to you to figure it out and the timings were tailored around the keyboard.

                                  I'm not sure if anyone ever did - at least I'm not aware of any 3rd party IR accessories.

                                  gloriouscow@oldbytes.spaceG 1 Reply Last reply
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                                  • gloriouscow@oldbytes.spaceG gloriouscow@oldbytes.space

                                    IBM mentions in passing in the technical reference that you could make other IR accessories for the system, but it was up to you to figure it out and the timings were tailored around the keyboard.

                                    I'm not sure if anyone ever did - at least I'm not aware of any 3rd party IR accessories.

                                    gloriouscow@oldbytes.spaceG This user is from outside of this forum
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                                    gloriouscow@oldbytes.space
                                    wrote last edited by
                                    #81

                                    There's a fun video of LGR experiencing some ... issues with his PCjr IR port.

                                    The beeping was an intentional feature by IBM to inform you that you had a bad keyboard signal. A beep occurs if the system receives a parity or phase error.

                                    "I hate and love you so much" is something that I feel deeply

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                                    gloriouscow@oldbytes.spaceG 1 Reply Last reply
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                                    • gloriouscow@oldbytes.spaceG gloriouscow@oldbytes.space

                                      There's a fun video of LGR experiencing some ... issues with his PCjr IR port.

                                      The beeping was an intentional feature by IBM to inform you that you had a bad keyboard signal. A beep occurs if the system receives a parity or phase error.

                                      "I hate and love you so much" is something that I feel deeply

                                      - YouTube

                                      Auf YouTube findest du die angesagtesten Videos und Tracks. Außerdem kannst du eigene Inhalte hochladen und mit Freunden oder gleich der ganzen Welt teilen.

                                      favicon

                                      (www.youtube.com)

                                      gloriouscow@oldbytes.spaceG This user is from outside of this forum
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                                      gloriouscow@oldbytes.space
                                      wrote last edited by
                                      #82

                                      Because I am very normal I needed to see if I can read the PCjr keyboard IR protocol with a light pen.

                                      #retrocomputing

                                      gloriouscow@oldbytes.spaceG 1 Reply Last reply
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                                      • gloriouscow@oldbytes.spaceG gloriouscow@oldbytes.space

                                        Because I am very normal I needed to see if I can read the PCjr keyboard IR protocol with a light pen.

                                        #retrocomputing

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                                        gloriouscow@oldbytes.space
                                        wrote last edited by
                                        #83

                                        The IR signal is biphase-encoded. You can't really have the IR blasting all the time, and an absence of light isn't meaningful either, so quick pairs of light pulses signify meaningful data.

                                        The first pulse is always 1, being the start bit. The start bit establishes the beginning of a series of 9 windows to follow, called bitcells. If a pulse appears at the start of a bitcell, it is a 1. if a pulse appears in the second half of a bitcell, it is a 0.

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                                        gloriouscow@oldbytes.spaceG 1 Reply Last reply
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                                        • gloriouscow@oldbytes.spaceG gloriouscow@oldbytes.space

                                          Will it turn on, or will it explode?

                                          #retrocomputing

                                          brouhaha@mastodon.socialB This user is from outside of this forum
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                                          brouhaha@mastodon.social
                                          wrote last edited by
                                          #84

                                          @gloriouscow
                                          Yes. It definitely will.

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