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CIRCLE WITH A DOT

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  3. Unlike my floppy drive box, only a single goat has pissed on my PCjr box

Unlike my floppy drive box, only a single goat has pissed on my PCjr box

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retrocomputingvcf
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  • gloriouscow@oldbytes.spaceG gloriouscow@oldbytes.space

    Here are some of the sidecars available:

    Cluster Adapter - this was a pre-ethernet networking standard that could connect up to 64 computers on a coaxial cable.

    Parallel Port - you want to print? Some printers were serial, but parallel printers became somewhat ubiquitous over time.

    Speech Attachment - you remember Dr Sbaitso, that creepy voice thing that came with your Soundblaster drivers? Did you love that? Well, do I have the sidecar for you. If you can afford it.

    Memory Sidecars - several kinds of these were available - IBM had some, but companies like Racore and even Microsoft made them. Usually the expansion RAM was faster than the onboard PCjr RAM, so these were pretty essential upgrades.

    gloriouscow@oldbytes.spaceG This user is from outside of this forum
    gloriouscow@oldbytes.spaceG This user is from outside of this forum
    gloriouscow@oldbytes.space
    wrote last edited by
    #60

    Since @aaronsgiles brought it up, let's talk about the PCjr's video system.

    The VGA.

    No, not that VGA.

    gloriouscow@oldbytes.spaceG 1 Reply Last reply
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    • gloriouscow@oldbytes.spaceG gloriouscow@oldbytes.space

      Since @aaronsgiles brought it up, let's talk about the PCjr's video system.

      The VGA.

      No, not that VGA.

      gloriouscow@oldbytes.spaceG This user is from outside of this forum
      gloriouscow@oldbytes.spaceG This user is from outside of this forum
      gloriouscow@oldbytes.space
      wrote last edited by
      #61

      The PCjr has a Video Gate Array. You're thinking about the later 256 color standard, the Video Graphics Array.

      Easy mistake to make. Tandy's version of this would get unofficially named "TGA", something you might have seen when selecting your graphics options in that spiffy new DOS game you just bought.

      In any case, the PCjr has no dedicated video memory, the system has shared memory. Just like your fancy new MacBook! Okay nothing at all like that, actually, because if you hadn't guessed by now, it's terrible.

      gloriouscow@oldbytes.spaceG techtangents@dialup.spaceT 2 Replies Last reply
      0
      • gloriouscow@oldbytes.spaceG gloriouscow@oldbytes.space

        The PCjr has a Video Gate Array. You're thinking about the later 256 color standard, the Video Graphics Array.

        Easy mistake to make. Tandy's version of this would get unofficially named "TGA", something you might have seen when selecting your graphics options in that spiffy new DOS game you just bought.

        In any case, the PCjr has no dedicated video memory, the system has shared memory. Just like your fancy new MacBook! Okay nothing at all like that, actually, because if you hadn't guessed by now, it's terrible.

        gloriouscow@oldbytes.spaceG This user is from outside of this forum
        gloriouscow@oldbytes.spaceG This user is from outside of this forum
        gloriouscow@oldbytes.space
        wrote last edited by
        #62

        The IBM PC uses the 8253 timer and 8237 DMA controller to refresh the system's DRAM. The D in DRAM stands for Dynamic and dynamic means if we do not refresh the RAM by accessing it periodically the contents go bye-byte.

        Doing this saved IBM a decent amount of money on making dedicated refresh circuitry, at the cost of about 5-6% of your CPU performance.

        petrillic@hachyderm.ioP gloriouscow@oldbytes.spaceG C 3 Replies Last reply
        0
        • gloriouscow@oldbytes.spaceG gloriouscow@oldbytes.space

          The IBM PC uses the 8253 timer and 8237 DMA controller to refresh the system's DRAM. The D in DRAM stands for Dynamic and dynamic means if we do not refresh the RAM by accessing it periodically the contents go bye-byte.

          Doing this saved IBM a decent amount of money on making dedicated refresh circuitry, at the cost of about 5-6% of your CPU performance.

          petrillic@hachyderm.ioP This user is from outside of this forum
          petrillic@hachyderm.ioP This user is from outside of this forum
          petrillic@hachyderm.io
          wrote last edited by
          #63

          @gloriouscow we should never have strayed from core memory.

          1 Reply Last reply
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          • gloriouscow@oldbytes.spaceG gloriouscow@oldbytes.space

            The IBM PC uses the 8253 timer and 8237 DMA controller to refresh the system's DRAM. The D in DRAM stands for Dynamic and dynamic means if we do not refresh the RAM by accessing it periodically the contents go bye-byte.

            Doing this saved IBM a decent amount of money on making dedicated refresh circuitry, at the cost of about 5-6% of your CPU performance.

            gloriouscow@oldbytes.spaceG This user is from outside of this forum
            gloriouscow@oldbytes.spaceG This user is from outside of this forum
            gloriouscow@oldbytes.space
            wrote last edited by
            #64

            But the PCjr has no DMA controller. Ruh roh! How are we going to refresh the DRAM??

            Easy peasy. We just make the system RAM also the video RAM. As the PCjr's VGA reads video memory to scan out to the display, it hits all the RAS and CAS lines and we get our DRAM refreshed! Yay!

            Except our CPU can't access RAM while it is doing this! Boo!

            gloriouscow@oldbytes.spaceG 1 Reply Last reply
            0
            • gloriouscow@oldbytes.spaceG gloriouscow@oldbytes.space

              But the PCjr has no DMA controller. Ruh roh! How are we going to refresh the DRAM??

              Easy peasy. We just make the system RAM also the video RAM. As the PCjr's VGA reads video memory to scan out to the display, it hits all the RAS and CAS lines and we get our DRAM refreshed! Yay!

              Except our CPU can't access RAM while it is doing this! Boo!

              gloriouscow@oldbytes.spaceG This user is from outside of this forum
              gloriouscow@oldbytes.spaceG This user is from outside of this forum
              gloriouscow@oldbytes.space
              wrote last edited by
              #65

              IBM tells us the CPU gets one cycle every 1.1 microseconds, which is practically an eon in computer time. A CPU cycle at 4.77MHz is around 200ns, for comparison.

              IBM gives some handwavy math to explain how you might see 2 wait states as a result. In unlucky code sequences you could see 3-5.

              This made your peanut slow 😞

              Link Preview Image
              gloriouscow@oldbytes.spaceG 1 Reply Last reply
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              • gloriouscow@oldbytes.spaceG gloriouscow@oldbytes.space

                The PCjr has a Video Gate Array. You're thinking about the later 256 color standard, the Video Graphics Array.

                Easy mistake to make. Tandy's version of this would get unofficially named "TGA", something you might have seen when selecting your graphics options in that spiffy new DOS game you just bought.

                In any case, the PCjr has no dedicated video memory, the system has shared memory. Just like your fancy new MacBook! Okay nothing at all like that, actually, because if you hadn't guessed by now, it's terrible.

                techtangents@dialup.spaceT This user is from outside of this forum
                techtangents@dialup.spaceT This user is from outside of this forum
                techtangents@dialup.space
                wrote last edited by
                #66

                @gloriouscow
                It's a good thing that a "Tandy" "Gate Array" doesn't have any other meanings either, nope none at all...

                gloriouscow@oldbytes.spaceG 1 Reply Last reply
                0
                • gloriouscow@oldbytes.spaceG gloriouscow@oldbytes.space

                  IBM tells us the CPU gets one cycle every 1.1 microseconds, which is practically an eon in computer time. A CPU cycle at 4.77MHz is around 200ns, for comparison.

                  IBM gives some handwavy math to explain how you might see 2 wait states as a result. In unlucky code sequences you could see 3-5.

                  This made your peanut slow 😞

                  Link Preview Image
                  gloriouscow@oldbytes.spaceG This user is from outside of this forum
                  gloriouscow@oldbytes.spaceG This user is from outside of this forum
                  gloriouscow@oldbytes.space
                  wrote last edited by
                  #67

                  Manufacturers of RAM expansion cards had to provide refresh circuitry for the RAM sitting on their expansion cards, because your PCjr's VGA did not access it.

                  This wasn't something your IBM PC memory expansion card needed to worry about, because the PC will refresh any extra memory your put in (set your jumpers properly!)

                  But it also means that code running out of a PCjr RAM expansion sidecar could, in theory, run even faster than on its big older brother. Yay, peanut!

                  gloriouscow@oldbytes.spaceG 1 Reply Last reply
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                  • gloriouscow@oldbytes.spaceG gloriouscow@oldbytes.space

                    Manufacturers of RAM expansion cards had to provide refresh circuitry for the RAM sitting on their expansion cards, because your PCjr's VGA did not access it.

                    This wasn't something your IBM PC memory expansion card needed to worry about, because the PC will refresh any extra memory your put in (set your jumpers properly!)

                    But it also means that code running out of a PCjr RAM expansion sidecar could, in theory, run even faster than on its big older brother. Yay, peanut!

                    gloriouscow@oldbytes.spaceG This user is from outside of this forum
                    gloriouscow@oldbytes.spaceG This user is from outside of this forum
                    gloriouscow@oldbytes.space
                    wrote last edited by
                    #68

                    Code running out of the ROM , like the BIOS, and any cartridge you might have plugged in before everyone gave up on that idea, was also fast.

                    gloriouscow@oldbytes.spaceG 1 Reply Last reply
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                    • gloriouscow@oldbytes.spaceG gloriouscow@oldbytes.space

                      Code running out of the ROM , like the BIOS, and any cartridge you might have plugged in before everyone gave up on that idea, was also fast.

                      gloriouscow@oldbytes.spaceG This user is from outside of this forum
                      gloriouscow@oldbytes.spaceG This user is from outside of this forum
                      gloriouscow@oldbytes.space
                      wrote last edited by
                      #69

                      Tandy, when copying the PCjr to make the Tandy 1000, looked at this and saw that it was bad.

                      The Tandy 1000 also has a 128K window of shared DRAM, but they did two things to make the Tandy 1000 not terrible.

                      First, they shuffled some stuff around and tweaked some timings and basically halved the number of wait states required. Yay!

                      Secondly, they made the 128K shared window configurable - the system would normally move it to the top of RAM, where you were less likely to need to run code out of it, especially important stuff like DOS. Yay!

                      gloriouscow@oldbytes.spaceG 1 Reply Last reply
                      0
                      • gloriouscow@oldbytes.spaceG gloriouscow@oldbytes.space

                        Tandy, when copying the PCjr to make the Tandy 1000, looked at this and saw that it was bad.

                        The Tandy 1000 also has a 128K window of shared DRAM, but they did two things to make the Tandy 1000 not terrible.

                        First, they shuffled some stuff around and tweaked some timings and basically halved the number of wait states required. Yay!

                        Secondly, they made the 128K shared window configurable - the system would normally move it to the top of RAM, where you were less likely to need to run code out of it, especially important stuff like DOS. Yay!

                        gloriouscow@oldbytes.spaceG This user is from outside of this forum
                        gloriouscow@oldbytes.spaceG This user is from outside of this forum
                        gloriouscow@oldbytes.space
                        wrote last edited by
                        #70

                        On some later Tandys you can even install a whopping 768K of RAM and have the 128K of video memory live up there above the 640K boundary and have your cake and eat it too.

                        There was a lot of cool stuff the VGA/TGA could do. I mean, being able to instantly switch to rendering graphics anywhere in a 128K window was a pretty crazy cool feature when you think about it - the CGA only had a measly 16K of video memory by comparison.

                        Unfortunately, nobody was going to make a game that relied on that, because your game had to work on the PC if you actually liked, you know, making money.

                        gloriouscow@oldbytes.spaceG 1 Reply Last reply
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                        • techtangents@dialup.spaceT techtangents@dialup.space

                          @gloriouscow
                          It's a good thing that a "Tandy" "Gate Array" doesn't have any other meanings either, nope none at all...

                          gloriouscow@oldbytes.spaceG This user is from outside of this forum
                          gloriouscow@oldbytes.spaceG This user is from outside of this forum
                          gloriouscow@oldbytes.space
                          wrote last edited by
                          #71

                          @TechTangents so much future Tandyposting to do

                          1 Reply Last reply
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                          • gloriouscow@oldbytes.spaceG gloriouscow@oldbytes.space

                            On some later Tandys you can even install a whopping 768K of RAM and have the 128K of video memory live up there above the 640K boundary and have your cake and eat it too.

                            There was a lot of cool stuff the VGA/TGA could do. I mean, being able to instantly switch to rendering graphics anywhere in a 128K window was a pretty crazy cool feature when you think about it - the CGA only had a measly 16K of video memory by comparison.

                            Unfortunately, nobody was going to make a game that relied on that, because your game had to work on the PC if you actually liked, you know, making money.

                            gloriouscow@oldbytes.spaceG This user is from outside of this forum
                            gloriouscow@oldbytes.spaceG This user is from outside of this forum
                            gloriouscow@oldbytes.space
                            wrote last edited by
                            #72

                            Shall we see if my peanut even boots?

                            gloriouscow@oldbytes.spaceG 1 Reply Last reply
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                            • gloriouscow@oldbytes.spaceG gloriouscow@oldbytes.space

                              Shall we see if my peanut even boots?

                              gloriouscow@oldbytes.spaceG This user is from outside of this forum
                              gloriouscow@oldbytes.spaceG This user is from outside of this forum
                              gloriouscow@oldbytes.space
                              wrote last edited by
                              #73

                              Will it turn on, or will it explode?

                              #retrocomputing

                              gloriouscow@oldbytes.spaceG brouhaha@mastodon.socialB 2 Replies Last reply
                              0
                              • gloriouscow@oldbytes.spaceG gloriouscow@oldbytes.space

                                The IBM PC uses the 8253 timer and 8237 DMA controller to refresh the system's DRAM. The D in DRAM stands for Dynamic and dynamic means if we do not refresh the RAM by accessing it periodically the contents go bye-byte.

                                Doing this saved IBM a decent amount of money on making dedicated refresh circuitry, at the cost of about 5-6% of your CPU performance.

                                C This user is from outside of this forum
                                C This user is from outside of this forum
                                crazyc@mastodon.social
                                wrote last edited by
                                #74

                                @gloriouscow The 8257 is pretty mid, good thing IBM used the somewhat better 8237.

                                gloriouscow@oldbytes.spaceG 2 Replies Last reply
                                0
                                • C crazyc@mastodon.social

                                  @gloriouscow The 8257 is pretty mid, good thing IBM used the somewhat better 8237.

                                  gloriouscow@oldbytes.spaceG This user is from outside of this forum
                                  gloriouscow@oldbytes.spaceG This user is from outside of this forum
                                  gloriouscow@oldbytes.space
                                  wrote last edited by
                                  #75

                                  @crazyc 😛

                                  1 Reply Last reply
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                                  • gloriouscow@oldbytes.spaceG gloriouscow@oldbytes.space

                                    Will it turn on, or will it explode?

                                    #retrocomputing

                                    gloriouscow@oldbytes.spaceG This user is from outside of this forum
                                    gloriouscow@oldbytes.spaceG This user is from outside of this forum
                                    gloriouscow@oldbytes.space
                                    wrote last edited by
                                    #76

                                    I'm currently having all the wireless IBM Keyboard Adventures, and you're not. Jealous?

                                    I'm sitting about ten feet away from the peanut and the keyboard seems to work just fine. Although, this is a fresh set of batteries, and it's relatively dim in here because I live like some kind of techno-troll.

                                    Link Preview Image
                                    gloriouscow@oldbytes.spaceG 1 Reply Last reply
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                                    • C crazyc@mastodon.social

                                      @gloriouscow The 8257 is pretty mid, good thing IBM used the somewhat better 8237.

                                      gloriouscow@oldbytes.spaceG This user is from outside of this forum
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                                      gloriouscow@oldbytes.space
                                      wrote last edited by
                                      #77

                                      @crazyc you ever consider how many neurons you're using to remember intel peripheral chip numbers

                                      C 1 Reply Last reply
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                                      • gloriouscow@oldbytes.spaceG gloriouscow@oldbytes.space

                                        I'm currently having all the wireless IBM Keyboard Adventures, and you're not. Jealous?

                                        I'm sitting about ten feet away from the peanut and the keyboard seems to work just fine. Although, this is a fresh set of batteries, and it's relatively dim in here because I live like some kind of techno-troll.

                                        Link Preview Image
                                        gloriouscow@oldbytes.spaceG This user is from outside of this forum
                                        gloriouscow@oldbytes.spaceG This user is from outside of this forum
                                        gloriouscow@oldbytes.space
                                        wrote last edited by
                                        #78

                                        obviously there's zero authentication to an IR keyboard.

                                        it would be fun to make a tiny little emitter that could send text to a PCjr and then find the next person exhibiting one at VCF and send them messages from a few tables over.

                                        gloriouscow@oldbytes.spaceG 1 Reply Last reply
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                                        • gloriouscow@oldbytes.spaceG gloriouscow@oldbytes.space

                                          @crazyc you ever consider how many neurons you're using to remember intel peripheral chip numbers

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                                          C This user is from outside of this forum
                                          crazyc@mastodon.social
                                          wrote last edited by
                                          #79

                                          @gloriouscow Lets talk about the 8274, 8256 and 82720. Or better, lets not. (the 8256 is required to emulate the Philips :Yes and I don't wanna do it)

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