tell me you’re a coward without telling me
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@Athena oh yes, it has, but you underestimate how many people on the team are pissed about that and want it to change but need to be diplomatic about it so they don't lose their jobs or positions
like, the tech industry is extremely unfavorable to people who dissent to LLMs and just showing up and complaining that people aren't doing enough is putting these people in impossible positions where they agree with you but are forced to say nothing and let the fascists dunk on you because they can't be so overt about it
I've been especially frustrated lately because this has been happening to me too, but like, at least I know what the situation is and am working on changing it. again, I'm just pointing out that even though you were extremely tame in the discussion relative to what you're saying here, all you did is invite more folks to throw shit and get the discussion locked so now not even I can comment on it
@clarfonthey @Athena Ohh, boohoohoo.
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@jepyang are you literally incapable of reading down the thread to see what happened to the argument or do you just like bothering people for no reason
@clarfonthey @jepyang@wandering.shop It's wild that you, of all people, thought that would be a sensible thing to say.
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@Athena You have been banned????
@goedelchen I was not actually banned, I just knew my commentary would not be received well. And it was not; the thread got locked pretty much immediately
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tell me you’re a coward without telling me
No comment on this PR may mention the following topics:
Long-term social or economic impact of LLMs
The environmental impact of LLMs
Anything to do with the copyright status of LLM output
Moral judgements about people who use LLMs
We have asked the moderation team to help us enforce these rules.Add an LLM policy for `rust-lang/rust` by jyn514 · Pull Request #1040 · rust-lang/rust-forge
Information useful to people contributing to Rust. Contribute to rust-lang/rust-forge development by creating an account on GitHub.
GitHub (github.com)
@Athena How can this person unilaterally decide such topic should not be taken into account‽ Especially for such an important and divisive topic!
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@Athena How can this person unilaterally decide such topic should not be taken into account‽ Especially for such an important and divisive topic!
@KekunPlazas in fairness it was not unilateral, it was a decision from the rust team as a whole based on “nobody agrees on the ethics so it’s toooooo haaaaaard and nobody is allowed to talk about it”
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@KekunPlazas in fairness it was not unilateral, it was a decision from the rust team as a whole based on “nobody agrees on the ethics so it’s toooooo haaaaaard and nobody is allowed to talk about it”
@Athena Ah, alright, let's not shoot the messenger then.
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@Athena I am suddenly less interested in their policy on LLMs and more interested in their policy on ethics. Excluding ethical concerns as a basis for policy is what you do when you know your preferred policies are unethical. Any project which accepts such an exclusion should be treated as a threat.
@ShadSterling @Athena @davidgerard The rust foundation has always erred on the side of unethical, and sometimes even racism.
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i wrote a thing https://parthen.online/notes/rust-llm-rfc/
@Athena I really like this. May I incorporate it into a little project of my own?
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@Athena I really like this. May I incorporate it into a little project of my own?
@cory absolutely! Everything on my blog is CC BY-NC-SA by default as noted in the footer and on top of that feel free to use this for whatever purposes you like without restriction (tho I would appreciate [not require] attribution)
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@ShadSterling the given reasoning is “well some people say it’s good so there’s no way to know if it’s really good or bad and we all just have to agree to disagree about the ethics”
@Athena @ShadSterling And "nuanced" always finds its way in to effectively mean "people have valud objections but we've decided to ignore them." If so much nuance is required a flat out ban should be made until a time when a clear, unnuanced answer can be given. Full stop.
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cited as reason to allow LLM contributions experimentally:
Instead of using ethical concerns as a basis for policy, we should justify policy on the basis of how something is impacting our ability as a project to deliver a really great programming language.
if the orphan grinder lets us make a better programming language then FIRE THOSE BABIES UP
@Athena "Can you think of a concrete improvement to the policy that addresses your concern? Consider:
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• Whether your change will make it harder to come to a consensus"Oh, for real? Don't make real improvements if people might disagree? Sounds like a great formula for crafting policy.
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@Athena I am suddenly less interested in their policy on LLMs and more interested in their policy on ethics. Excluding ethical concerns as a basis for policy is what you do when you know your preferred policies are unethical. Any project which accepts such an exclusion should be treated as a threat.
@ShadSterling @Athena This is why communities like #ReactOS that when asked about permissible behavior they merely point at the Rust CoC and I'm like "But how is that interpreted and enforced?"
It looks good on paper, but here is the Rust project itself saying ethics do not drive their decisions.
