tell me you’re a coward without telling me

Reply to tell me you’re a coward without telling me on Sat, 16 May 2026 14:48:06 GMT

reflex@retrogaming.social — Sat, 16 May 2026 14:48:06 GMT

@ShadSterling @Athena This is why communities like #ReactOS that when asked about permissible behavior they merely point at the Rust CoC and I'm like "But how is that interpreted and enforced?"

It looks good on paper, but here is the Rust project itself saying ethics do not drive their decisions.

Reply to tell me you’re a coward without telling me on Sat, 16 May 2026 13:20:45 GMT

lrhodes@merveilles.town — Sat, 16 May 2026 13:20:45 GMT

@Athena "Can you think of a concrete improvement to the policy that addresses your concern? Consider:
…
• Whether your change will make it harder to come to a consensus"

Oh, for real? Don't make real improvements if people might disagree? Sounds like a great formula for crafting policy.

Reply to tell me you’re a coward without telling me on Sat, 16 May 2026 12:57:59 GMT

cararemixed@mastodon.social — Sat, 16 May 2026 12:57:59 GMT

@Athena @ShadSterling And "nuanced" always finds its way in to effectively mean "people have valud objections but we've decided to ignore them." If so much nuance is required a flat out ban should be made until a time when a clear, unnuanced answer can be given. Full stop.

Reply to tell me you’re a coward without telling me on Sat, 16 May 2026 12:18:13 GMT

athena@chaosfem.tw — Sat, 16 May 2026 12:18:13 GMT

@cory absolutely! Everything on my blog is CC BY-NC-SA by default as noted in the footer and on top of that feel free to use this for whatever purposes you like without restriction (tho I would appreciate [not require] attribution)

Reply to tell me you’re a coward without telling me on Sat, 16 May 2026 11:54:46 GMT

cory@tilde.zone — Sat, 16 May 2026 11:54:46 GMT

@Athena I really like this. May I incorporate it into a little project of my own?

Reply to tell me you’re a coward without telling me on Sat, 16 May 2026 11:16:56 GMT

schrotthaufen@mastodon.social — Sat, 16 May 2026 11:16:56 GMT

@ShadSterling @Athena @davidgerard The rust foundation has always erred on the side of unethical, and sometimes even racism.

Reply to tell me you’re a coward without telling me on Sat, 16 May 2026 11:14:40 GMT

kekunplazas@mamot.fr — Sat, 16 May 2026 11:14:40 GMT

@Athena Ah, alright, let's not shoot the messenger then.

Reply to tell me you’re a coward without telling me on Sat, 16 May 2026 11:01:05 GMT

athena@chaosfem.tw — Sat, 16 May 2026 11:01:05 GMT

@KekunPlazas in fairness it was not unilateral, it was a decision from the rust team as a whole based on “nobody agrees on the ethics so it’s toooooo haaaaaard and nobody is allowed to talk about it”

Reply to tell me you’re a coward without telling me on Sat, 16 May 2026 10:57:35 GMT

kekunplazas@mamot.fr — Sat, 16 May 2026 10:57:35 GMT

@Athena How can this person unilaterally decide such topic should not be taken into account‽ Especially for such an important and divisive topic!

Reply to tell me you’re a coward without telling me on Sat, 16 May 2026 10:43:37 GMT

athena@chaosfem.tw — Sat, 16 May 2026 10:43:37 GMT

@goedelchen I was not actually banned, I just knew my commentary would not be received well. And it was not; the thread got locked pretty much immediately

Reply to tell me you’re a coward without telling me on Sat, 16 May 2026 09:59:16 GMT

soc@chaos.social — Sat, 16 May 2026 09:59:16 GMT

@clarfonthey @jepyang@wandering.shop It's wild that you, of all people, thought that would be a sensible thing to say.

Reply to tell me you’re a coward without telling me on Sat, 16 May 2026 09:56:41 GMT

soc@chaos.social — Sat, 16 May 2026 09:56:41 GMT

@clarfonthey @Athena Ohh, boohoohoo.

Reply to tell me you’re a coward without telling me on Sat, 16 May 2026 09:44:07 GMT

goedelchen@mastodontech.de — Sat, 16 May 2026 09:44:07 GMT

@Athena You have been banned????

Reply to tell me you’re a coward without telling me on Sat, 16 May 2026 09:05:19 GMT

divverent@misskey.de — Sat, 16 May 2026 09:05:19 GMT

@Athena@chaosfem.tw @ophis@brain.worm.pink Furthermore I predict that all major web browsers will have a builtin slop machine by 2030 in form of replacing the built-in spell checker for textarea fields by a slop machine.

What should we do then? Sticking to older browser versions means being free wild for security exploits. And there are only two browser engines left, so once Chromium and Firefox have a built-in slop machine, all browsers do.

Should we then boycott

and build our own text fields - screw the blind? Or block all major browsers and do "this website can only be viewed with Dillo"?
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<h1>Reply to tell me you’re a coward without telling me on Sat, 16 May 2026 08:59:06 GMT</h1>
<p>divverent@misskey.de — Sat, 16 May 2026 08:59:06 GMT</p>
<a href="/user/athena%40chaosfem.tw">@Athena@chaosfem.tw</a> <a href="/user/ophis%40brain.worm.pink">@ophis@brain.worm.pink</a> You seem to be the exception there, though. Persomally I use no tools other than the one forced on me (like predictive text bars on mobile keyboards I generally ignore).<br /><br />But I understand it is a necessary accessibility tool for some, and do not want it outright banned for that reason alone.<br /><br />As said, alternatively get those right wing extremists out (shoot every single last one of them to Mars), and then maybe society will become more tolerant to accents again. Maybe.
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<h1>Reply to tell me you’re a coward without telling me on Sat, 16 May 2026 08:11:39 GMT</h1>
<p>ophis@brain.worm.pink — Sat, 16 May 2026 08:11:39 GMT</p>
<span><a href="/user/divverent%40misskey.de" rel="ugc">@<span>divVerent</span></a></span> <span><a href="/user/athena%40chaosfem.tw" rel="ugc">@<span>Athena</span></a></span> as a native english speaker jesus FUCKING christ please i'm begging you get the hell rid of the slop machine<br /><br />i'll take broken engrish over *that* garbage any day, and will misinterpret a lot less
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<h1>Reply to tell me you’re a coward without telling me on Sat, 16 May 2026 06:48:17 GMT</h1>
<p>addison@nothing-ever.works — Sat, 16 May 2026 06:48:17 GMT</p>
<p><a href="/user/athena%40chaosfem.tw">@Athena@chaosfem.tw</a><span> yuck. It would simply be best to not accept these submissions at </span><i><span>all</span></i><span> when there is a significant portion of the community which raise uncontested ethical concerns. That they cannot see this as a problem is pretty icky. Plus, jackh as lost almost all benefit of the doubt from me after that horrible LLM-generated Rust community update.</span></p>
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<h1>Reply to tell me you’re a coward without telling me on Sat, 16 May 2026 06:32:43 GMT</h1>
<p>marmrt@mastodon.nu — Sat, 16 May 2026 06:32:43 GMT</p>
<p><span><a href="/user/athena%40chaosfem.tw">@<span>Athena</span></a></span> I have read hundreds of posts on the ethics of LLMs on the rust-lang Zulip. They have had and are having those discussions. Just not in the policy document itself</p>
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<h1>Reply to tell me you’re a coward without telling me on Sat, 16 May 2026 06:04:12 GMT</h1>
<p>clouderst@abc.clouderst.xyz — Sat, 16 May 2026 06:04:12 GMT</p>
<p><span><a href="/user/pikhq%40social.treehouse.systems" rel="nofollow noreferrer noopener">@<span>pikhq</span></a></span> <span><a href="/user/athena%40chaosfem.tw" rel="nofollow noreferrer noopener">@<span>Athena</span></a></span> well... nobody says we cannot stalk sam altman and overall, it would be for the greater good </p>
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<h1>Reply to tell me you’re a coward without telling me on Sat, 16 May 2026 04:41:37 GMT</h1>
<p>divverent@misskey.de — Sat, 16 May 2026 04:41:37 GMT</p>
<a href="/user/athena%40chaosfem.tw">@Athena@chaosfem.tw</a> <a href="/user/ophis%40brain.worm.pink">@ophis@brain.worm.pink</a> I have to contradict there. So you want people who use proprietary software at all (including cloud hosted one, like Gmail) to not contribute to open source projects at all.<br /><br />That is a valid view one can have. So better block me, as right now I am typing this on an iPad with the built in Apple keyboard that has a prediction feature that is supposedly based on some form of LLM. I am never actually using the word predictions, but that is just me telling you, you have no way of knowing I am honest.<br /><br />Similarly, I would <i>assume</i> without knowing that Office 365's grammar check uses an LLM. Previous versions supposedly did not use an LLM but a machine learning approach nevertheless (one from a time before the chatbot hype). But honestly? I do not <i>know</i> that. Microsoft could ship an auto update that adds a LLM.<br /><br />Also, I expect a future Chrome and Firefox to both contain LLMs for text checking. Would you want those browsers then to be banned from all open source discussions? Or would you then demand that open source related discussion sites take measures to disable the LLMs, e.g. by reimplementing the text field (and breaking accessibility for the blind in the process)?<br /><br />As for LibreOffice - I can check the source code there. Have you <i>seen</i> it though? To find out for sure there is no LLM (which is my assumption) there I would have to sift through one of the least readable code bases ever.<br /><br />No, in my opinion standard writing tools should be allowed, provided one personally reads and verifies the output. The professor in your example has specifically not done that. You have, or else you would not have noticed the form/from.<br /><br />Anything else is discriminating against non native speakers, of which my wife has received more than enough in our time in Trumpistan. She was forced to use LLM based writing tools there, or else she was immediately ignored for basically "writing with an accent" (and telephone was outright impossible for both of us). Heck, we A/B tested that, and her accent in writing is not even that bad - but bad enough to immediately be noticed by Americans.<br /><br />If we could instead move to a world in which people with accents and imperfect writing are accepted (like we had in the 90s when I started on the internet, and like half the people on IRC had some obvious accent and it was okay), I would prefer that, and then nobody would need this LLM stuff. But right now it is basic accessibility for non native speakers. Even I probably am writing with an accent here.
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<h1>Reply to tell me you’re a coward without telling me on Sat, 16 May 2026 04:07:16 GMT</h1>
<p>shadsterling@mastodon.social — Sat, 16 May 2026 04:07:16 GMT</p>
<p><span><a href="/user/athena%40chaosfem.tw">@<span>Athena</span></a></span> but accepting all is more like refusing to disagree.  Refusing to disagree over ethics means accepting unethical policies.  It removes resistance to doing harm</p>
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<h1>Reply to tell me you’re a coward without telling me on Sat, 16 May 2026 03:38:49 GMT</h1>
<p>athena@chaosfem.tw — Sat, 16 May 2026 03:38:49 GMT</p>
<p><span><a href="/user/shadsterling%40mastodon.social" rel="nofollow noopener">@<span>ShadSterling</span></a></span> the given reasoning is “well some people say it’s good so there’s no way to know if it’s really good or bad and we all just have to agree to disagree about the ethics”</p>
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<h1>Reply to tell me you’re a coward without telling me on Sat, 16 May 2026 03:35:10 GMT</h1>
<p>shadsterling@mastodon.social — Sat, 16 May 2026 03:35:10 GMT</p>
<p><span><a href="/user/athena%40chaosfem.tw">@<span>Athena</span></a></span> I am suddenly less interested in their policy on LLMs and more interested in their policy on ethics.  Excluding ethical concerns as a basis for policy is what you do when you know your preferred policies are unethical.  Any project which accepts such an exclusion should be treated as a threat.</p>
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<h1>Reply to tell me you’re a coward without telling me on Sat, 16 May 2026 03:19:16 GMT</h1>
<p>shadsterling@mastodon.social — Sat, 16 May 2026 03:19:16 GMT</p>
<p><span><a href="/user/athena%40chaosfem.tw">@<span>Athena</span></a></span> this should be the policy for a lot more than just rust.</p>
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