The US government hunting for the Leader of Antifa is like when they hunted for "Dorthy" the leader all of the gay men in the military and perhaps the world.
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If the conservative imagination struggles with human behaviors that exist without command or hierarchy could it be that the left wing mind fails to see rigid structures of indoctrination used by the right?
In other words is there an inverse and equally clumsy version of this error?
@futurebird I think it's usually more subtle (but only usually): permission structures and the like tend to be multilayered messes and often they're only supposed to be taken at face value by suckers or by the enemy
so failing to notice what coheres into the next layer(s)?...
(there's also failing to let people know what they can actually ask for, which is a great way to screw over people from the wrong backgrounds)
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The US government hunting for the Leader of Antifa is like when they hunted for "Dorthy" the leader all of the gay men in the military and perhaps the world.
The inability of conservatives to imagine that people have left wing values, or might be gay just... naturally that training and leadership aren't needed or wanted is both hilarious and disturbing.
Trans people can't just exist, someone, some organization is making them trans!
It will all in tears. The only question is whose tears.
@futurebird I recall commentators (both left and right wing) that believed that there was some kind of secret core of bosses that would decide what version went on Wikipedia.
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@futurebird I recall commentators (both left and right wing) that believed that there was some kind of secret core of bosses that would decide what version went on Wikipedia.
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@futurebird But I can understand what they came from. Journalists are used to editors / editors in chief changing what they wrote, choosing the title etc., or to the owner of the newspaper dictating the editorial line (not to mention those buying advertisements).
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The US government hunting for the Leader of Antifa is like when they hunted for "Dorthy" the leader all of the gay men in the military and perhaps the world.
The inability of conservatives to imagine that people have left wing values, or might be gay just... naturally that training and leadership aren't needed or wanted is both hilarious and disturbing.
Trans people can't just exist, someone, some organization is making them trans!
It will all in tears. The only question is whose tears.
@futurebird This is their hierarchical authoritarianism showing again.
*They* don't have any stable identity or principles, they are entirely defined by authorities telling them who they are. They can't comprehend self-actualization or people having intrinsic identities.
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@willyyam @futurebird Yep, and the source of truth for them is not evidence or logic, but authority. That's why it's no use arguing with them.
@martinvermeer @willyyam @futurebird
YES! I think this is vv important -
If the conservative imagination struggles with human behaviors that exist without command or hierarchy could it be that the left wing mind fails to see rigid structures of indoctrination used by the right?
In other words is there an inverse and equally clumsy version of this error?
@futurebird I look at outrage culture*, and there's so much to be upset about, sometimes I wonder if I've been duped, too. Then I wonder who would trick people into progressive values and why, and the answer from the right always seems to boil down to general malevolence for its own sake, or just "Satan!!!"
I think you're right about not seeing the rigid strucures of indoctrination. I know they're there, but I still can't wrap my head around how many people seem to accept them without any curiosity.
*I mean, we should be outraged by the outrageous, but that's a whole other thing.
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@futurebird
I'm surprised by the question, since as @InkySchwartz says, the left is hyper-sensitive to control systems. Minimizing those is our raison d’être.The responses by @willyyam, @huxley, & @infryq are also confusing. These are all examples of "irrational" behavior done to support hierarchy. Surely everyone knows (both left & right) why it's being done.
maybe *you* know it, but I would encourage you to imagine other people with a different reading list than you
bc there are an awful lot of think pieces out there trying to “gotcha” the right by showing how most beneficiaries of various social programs they fight against are in red states
and the thesis is usually “how are you going to keep your constituency if you take away their medicare” and almost never “it makes sense you’d want to take away their medicare, that’s what is freeing them from the shackles of hierarchy”
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The US government hunting for the Leader of Antifa is like when they hunted for "Dorthy" the leader all of the gay men in the military and perhaps the world.
The inability of conservatives to imagine that people have left wing values, or might be gay just... naturally that training and leadership aren't needed or wanted is both hilarious and disturbing.
Trans people can't just exist, someone, some organization is making them trans!
It will all in tears. The only question is whose tears.
Trump seems to mess up the world more than any single trans person could. One day Maga supporters will realize?
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The US government hunting for the Leader of Antifa is like when they hunted for "Dorthy" the leader all of the gay men in the military and perhaps the world.
The inability of conservatives to imagine that people have left wing values, or might be gay just... naturally that training and leadership aren't needed or wanted is both hilarious and disturbing.
Trans people can't just exist, someone, some organization is making them trans!
It will all in tears. The only question is whose tears.
@futurebird I don't think for a moment that leaders of #USA's various types of federal cops really believe that #antifa is an organisation with leaders. They are mostly well-educated people, who understand that the power of an idea can thrive without structure.
They also understand the power of the #BigLie. The Big Lie that there is an organised conspiracy is powerful #propaganda to bbuild public support for repression, and to motivate enforcers.
The BigLie is not folly. It's strategy
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I don't think this revulsion is just natural, it's a high effort system done intentionally to keep women in our place. If a little boy thinks the pink toy is just as nice for him as the more masculine army green toys... well the whole world may fall into disorder.
Cats and dogs living together and all of that.
@futurebird my theory is that in many cases, consciously or not, parents' gayday or transdar susses out their own kids early on and the subtle conversion therapy starts. Many queers (myself included) have stories that strongly suggest it doesn't start with any coming out.
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@futurebird my theory is that in many cases, consciously or not, parents' gayday or transdar susses out their own kids early on and the subtle conversion therapy starts. Many queers (myself included) have stories that strongly suggest it doesn't start with any coming out.
I'm bi and I was the last person to find this out. Of EVERYONE
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I'm bi and I was the last person to find this out. Of EVERYONE
@futurebird Haha, it's funny how that happens. I wasn't the last to know (about me being trans) but people knew before I told them, including my wife.
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The US government hunting for the Leader of Antifa is like when they hunted for "Dorthy" the leader all of the gay men in the military and perhaps the world.
The inability of conservatives to imagine that people have left wing values, or might be gay just... naturally that training and leadership aren't needed or wanted is both hilarious and disturbing.
Trans people can't just exist, someone, some organization is making them trans!
It will all in tears. The only question is whose tears.
@futurebird They rely so much on hierarchies - patriarchies in face - that they cannot imagine it is possible to have an idea without some such structure, some formal organisation.
It is, in one respect, a simple lack of imagination - something that the right have always lacked. They cannot envision any way that the world, or any part of it, could be organised differently to what they see and have. How anyone can not wish to have power over others.
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@futurebird Gendered kids toys should be banned. There's no good reason that kids toys should ever be marketed to one gender over another.
In fact, I'm starting to come around on the idea of all kids just being considered a single gender until such a time as they decide on another.
@StarkRG @futurebird You know the flow chart about whether it is operated with the genitals?
I do think that gendered roles should be outlawed, and people could be given information about possible roles, and have a chance to find their own place.
But, of course, that would scare the people who like to have power over people.
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@StarkRG @futurebird You know the flow chart about whether it is operated with the genitals?
I do think that gendered roles should be outlawed, and people could be given information about possible roles, and have a chance to find their own place.
But, of course, that would scare the people who like to have power over people.
@SteveClough @futurebird If it helps emasculated truck nuts owners feel better to eat their yoghurt out of a black tub emblazoned with the word "protein" in enormous letters, and use "aircraft carrier" scented perfume out of a cute little black can, fine, good for them. Indoctrinating kids into thinking all of that's normal seems like a bad idea, though.
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