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  3. One of my bedrock beliefs is that capitalists *really* hate capitalism.

One of my bedrock beliefs is that capitalists *really* hate capitalism.

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  • pluralistic@mamot.frP pluralistic@mamot.fr

    He helped create "mass arbitration," bringing thousands of arbitration cases on behalf of Uber drivers who'd had their wages stolen by the company. Since Uber has to pay the arbitrators in each of those cases, they faced a much larger bill than they would face in any possible class action suit:

    reuters.com

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    (www.reuters.com)

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    pluralistic@mamot.frP This user is from outside of this forum
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    pluralistic@mamot.fr
    wrote last edited by
    #22

    Mass arbitration cases spread to all kinds of large firms that used petty grifts to steal from thousands or even millions of people, like Intuit, who deceive - and rip off - millions of Americans every year with their fake Turbotax "free file" system:

    Link Preview Image
    Pluralistic: 24 Feb 2022 – Pluralistic: Daily links from Cory Doctorow

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    • pluralistic@mamot.frP pluralistic@mamot.fr

      Mass arbitration cases spread to all kinds of large firms that used petty grifts to steal from thousands or even millions of people, like Intuit, who deceive - and rip off - millions of Americans every year with their fake Turbotax "free file" system:

      Link Preview Image
      Pluralistic: 24 Feb 2022 – Pluralistic: Daily links from Cory Doctorow

      favicon

      (pluralistic.net)

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      pluralistic@mamot.frP This user is from outside of this forum
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      pluralistic@mamot.fr
      wrote last edited by
      #23

      Mass arbitration worked so well that Amazon actually revised its terms of service to *remove* binding arbitration from their terms of service, because they realized that they'd be better off facing class action suits:

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      Pluralistic: 02 Jun 2021 – Pluralistic: Daily links from Cory Doctorow

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      (pluralistic.net)

      Of course, the point of binding arbitration was never to create a streamlined system of justice - it was to bring about a world of *no* justice, where you have no right to sue.

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      pluralistic@mamot.frP 1 Reply Last reply
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      • pluralistic@mamot.frP pluralistic@mamot.fr

        Mass arbitration worked so well that Amazon actually revised its terms of service to *remove* binding arbitration from their terms of service, because they realized that they'd be better off facing class action suits:

        Link Preview Image
        Pluralistic: 02 Jun 2021 – Pluralistic: Daily links from Cory Doctorow

        favicon

        (pluralistic.net)

        Of course, the point of binding arbitration was never to create a streamlined system of justice - it was to bring about a world of *no* justice, where you have no right to sue.

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        pluralistic@mamot.frP This user is from outside of this forum
        pluralistic@mamot.frP This user is from outside of this forum
        pluralistic@mamot.fr
        wrote last edited by
        #24

        It's part of the decades-old "tort reform" movement that the business lobby has used to take away your right to sue altogether. Any time you hear about a seemingly crazy lawsuit (like the urban legends about the McDonald's "hot coffee" case), you're being propagandized for a world without legal consequences for companies that defraud you, steal from you, injure you, or kill you:

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        Pluralistic: 12 Jun 2022 – Pluralistic: Daily links from Cory Doctorow

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        pluralistic@mamot.frP 1 Reply Last reply
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        • pluralistic@mamot.frP pluralistic@mamot.fr

          It's part of the decades-old "tort reform" movement that the business lobby has used to take away your right to sue altogether. Any time you hear about a seemingly crazy lawsuit (like the urban legends about the McDonald's "hot coffee" case), you're being propagandized for a world without legal consequences for companies that defraud you, steal from you, injure you, or kill you:

          Link Preview Image
          Pluralistic: 12 Jun 2022 – Pluralistic: Daily links from Cory Doctorow

          favicon

          (pluralistic.net)

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          pluralistic@mamot.frP This user is from outside of this forum
          pluralistic@mamot.frP This user is from outside of this forum
          pluralistic@mamot.fr
          wrote last edited by
          #25

          That's why companies (like Bluesky) are now trying terms of service that also ban you from mass arbitration, while retaining the right to consolidate claims into a mass arbitration case if that's advantageous to *them*:

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          Pluralistic: Bluesky creates the world’s weirdest, hardest-to-understand binding arbitration clause (15 Aug 2025) – Pluralistic: Daily links from Cory Doctorow

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          (pluralistic.net)

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          pluralistic@mamot.frP 1 Reply Last reply
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          • pluralistic@mamot.frP pluralistic@mamot.fr

            That's why companies (like Bluesky) are now trying terms of service that also ban you from mass arbitration, while retaining the right to consolidate claims into a mass arbitration case if that's advantageous to *them*:

            Link Preview Image
            Pluralistic: Bluesky creates the world’s weirdest, hardest-to-understand binding arbitration clause (15 Aug 2025) – Pluralistic: Daily links from Cory Doctorow

            favicon

            (pluralistic.net)

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            pluralistic@mamot.frP This user is from outside of this forum
            pluralistic@mamot.frP This user is from outside of this forum
            pluralistic@mamot.fr
            wrote last edited by
            #26

            But Keller keeps finding creative ways around binding arbitration. He's currently bringing thousands of arbitration claims against Google, on behalf of advertisers whom Google stole from (Google is a thrice-convicted monopolist, and they lost a case last year over their monopolization of ad-tech, where they were found to have defrauded advertisers).

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            pluralistic@mamot.frP 1 Reply Last reply
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            • pluralistic@mamot.frP pluralistic@mamot.fr

              But Keller keeps finding creative ways around binding arbitration. He's currently bringing thousands of arbitration claims against Google, on behalf of advertisers whom Google stole from (Google is a thrice-convicted monopolist, and they lost a case last year over their monopolization of ad-tech, where they were found to have defrauded advertisers).

              25/

              pluralistic@mamot.frP This user is from outside of this forum
              pluralistic@mamot.frP This user is from outside of this forum
              pluralistic@mamot.fr
              wrote last edited by
              #27

              He also just argued before the Supreme Court in a case against Monsanto over the company's attempt to escape liability for causing cancer in farmworkers with their Roundup pesticide:

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              Supreme Court heard case on how to label risks of popular weed killer

              How the Supreme Court rules could have implications for tens of thousands of lawsuits against Roundup maker Monsanto, which is now owned by Bayer.

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              NPR (www.npr.org)

              Keller appears in the latest episode of the Organized Money podcast, for a fascinating interview about his work and outlook, and how he reconciles his work fighting corporate power with his identity as a movement conservative:

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              The Conservative Who Torments Big Business

              We are faced with corporate power so vast it spawned a conservative antitrust movement.

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              (www.organizedmoney.fm)

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              pluralistic@mamot.frP 1 Reply Last reply
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              • pluralistic@mamot.frP pluralistic@mamot.fr

                He also just argued before the Supreme Court in a case against Monsanto over the company's attempt to escape liability for causing cancer in farmworkers with their Roundup pesticide:

                Link Preview Image
                Supreme Court heard case on how to label risks of popular weed killer

                How the Supreme Court rules could have implications for tens of thousands of lawsuits against Roundup maker Monsanto, which is now owned by Bayer.

                favicon

                NPR (www.npr.org)

                Keller appears in the latest episode of the Organized Money podcast, for a fascinating interview about his work and outlook, and how he reconciles his work fighting corporate power with his identity as a movement conservative:

                Link Preview Image
                The Conservative Who Torments Big Business

                We are faced with corporate power so vast it spawned a conservative antitrust movement.

                favicon

                (www.organizedmoney.fm)

                26/

                pluralistic@mamot.frP This user is from outside of this forum
                pluralistic@mamot.frP This user is from outside of this forum
                pluralistic@mamot.fr
                wrote last edited by
                #28

                Keller's first big, important point is that (basically), capitalists hate capitalism (see above). He cites Milton Friedman, who "always said that the tort system is the best way to ensure that companies behave and follow the rules." For Keller (and Friedman) the alternative to private litigation against bad businesses is "government regulation and the alphabet soup of Washington, DC agencies [that] try and police these companies."

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                pluralistic@mamot.frP 1 Reply Last reply
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                • pluralistic@mamot.frP pluralistic@mamot.fr

                  Keller's first big, important point is that (basically), capitalists hate capitalism (see above). He cites Milton Friedman, who "always said that the tort system is the best way to ensure that companies behave and follow the rules." For Keller (and Friedman) the alternative to private litigation against bad businesses is "government regulation and the alphabet soup of Washington, DC agencies [that] try and police these companies."

                  27/

                  pluralistic@mamot.frP This user is from outside of this forum
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                  pluralistic@mamot.fr
                  wrote last edited by
                  #29

                  But, of course, the businesses that want binding arbitration and tort reform (so they can't be sued) *also* want to "dismantle the administrative state" (so they can't be regulated). They're the impunity movement, the "when the president does it, that means it is not illegal" movement, the "heads I win, tails you lose" movement. They're the caveat emptor movement, the "that makes me smart" movement:

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                  Pluralistic: “That Makes Me Smart” (04 Dec 2024) – Pluralistic: Daily links from Cory Doctorow

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                  (pluralistic.net)

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                  pluralistic@mamot.frP 1 Reply Last reply
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                  • pluralistic@mamot.frP pluralistic@mamot.fr

                    But, of course, the businesses that want binding arbitration and tort reform (so they can't be sued) *also* want to "dismantle the administrative state" (so they can't be regulated). They're the impunity movement, the "when the president does it, that means it is not illegal" movement, the "heads I win, tails you lose" movement. They're the caveat emptor movement, the "that makes me smart" movement:

                    Link Preview Image
                    Pluralistic: “That Makes Me Smart” (04 Dec 2024) – Pluralistic: Daily links from Cory Doctorow

                    favicon

                    (pluralistic.net)

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                    pluralistic@mamot.frP This user is from outside of this forum
                    pluralistic@mamot.frP This user is from outside of this forum
                    pluralistic@mamot.fr
                    wrote last edited by
                    #30

                    They don't want efficient markets, with the ever-present threat of a better competitor putting them out of business. They want feudalism. They want to go meta. They want to have the kind of self-determination you can only achieve by taking away everyone else's self-determination.

                    I was very struck by Keller's claim to be engaged in an exercise that Milton Friedman identified as the best one for making markets work.

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                    pluralistic@mamot.frP 1 Reply Last reply
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                    • pluralistic@mamot.frP pluralistic@mamot.fr

                      They don't want efficient markets, with the ever-present threat of a better competitor putting them out of business. They want feudalism. They want to go meta. They want to have the kind of self-determination you can only achieve by taking away everyone else's self-determination.

                      I was very struck by Keller's claim to be engaged in an exercise that Milton Friedman identified as the best one for making markets work.

                      29/

                      pluralistic@mamot.frP This user is from outside of this forum
                      pluralistic@mamot.frP This user is from outside of this forum
                      pluralistic@mamot.fr
                      wrote last edited by
                      #31

                      One of Keller's most forceful points is that class action suits are especially important for reining in petty, recurrent grifts, the junk fees that are the hallmark of enshittification.

                      He quotes his old boss, the archconservative judge Richard Posner, who said "Only a lunatic or a fanatic sues for $20." But if you multiply a $20 junk fee by ten million purchases, a company can use that fact to make *hundreds of millions* of dollars.

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                      pluralistic@mamot.frP 1 Reply Last reply
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                      • pluralistic@mamot.frP pluralistic@mamot.fr

                        One of Keller's most forceful points is that class action suits are especially important for reining in petty, recurrent grifts, the junk fees that are the hallmark of enshittification.

                        He quotes his old boss, the archconservative judge Richard Posner, who said "Only a lunatic or a fanatic sues for $20." But if you multiply a $20 junk fee by ten million purchases, a company can use that fact to make *hundreds of millions* of dollars.

                        30/

                        pluralistic@mamot.frP This user is from outside of this forum
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                        pluralistic@mamot.fr
                        wrote last edited by
                        #32

                        That's real money, which is why every company has figured out a way to whack you for $20,.

                        There's two ways to end this: one is litigation, the other is regulation, and the capitalism-hating-capitalists who run the world want to kill both. That's why the business lobby smears lawyers like Keller as being "vultures." But as Matt Stoller says, "vultures look aggressive and whatnot, but when you actually get rid of vultures out of an ecosystem, all sorts of things go haywire."

                        32/

                        pluralistic@mamot.frP 1 Reply Last reply
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                        • pluralistic@mamot.frP pluralistic@mamot.fr

                          That's real money, which is why every company has figured out a way to whack you for $20,.

                          There's two ways to end this: one is litigation, the other is regulation, and the capitalism-hating-capitalists who run the world want to kill both. That's why the business lobby smears lawyers like Keller as being "vultures." But as Matt Stoller says, "vultures look aggressive and whatnot, but when you actually get rid of vultures out of an ecosystem, all sorts of things go haywire."

                          32/

                          pluralistic@mamot.frP This user is from outside of this forum
                          pluralistic@mamot.frP This user is from outside of this forum
                          pluralistic@mamot.fr
                          wrote last edited by
                          #33

                          I love this. Vultures live off the disgusting, rotting crap that piles up around us, breeding disease and emitting an unbearable stench. If plaintiff-side, no-win/no-fee lawyers are vultures, then junk fees, wage theft, and the million frauds they fight are the disgusting, rotting crap that vultures feed off of - and the harder we make it for our noble vulture lawyers, the more disgusting, rotting crap we have to live with, hence the unbearable stench that is all around us.

                          32/

                          pluralistic@mamot.frP rgulick@social.coopR 2 Replies Last reply
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                          • pluralistic@mamot.frP pluralistic@mamot.fr

                            I love this. Vultures live off the disgusting, rotting crap that piles up around us, breeding disease and emitting an unbearable stench. If plaintiff-side, no-win/no-fee lawyers are vultures, then junk fees, wage theft, and the million frauds they fight are the disgusting, rotting crap that vultures feed off of - and the harder we make it for our noble vulture lawyers, the more disgusting, rotting crap we have to live with, hence the unbearable stench that is all around us.

                            32/

                            pluralistic@mamot.frP This user is from outside of this forum
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                            pluralistic@mamot.fr
                            wrote last edited by
                            #34

                            Listening to Keller was a fascinating exercise. I thoroughly disagree with him about many things - the way he characterized Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act couldn't have been more wrong - but it's quite bracing to hear a capitalist who *doesn't* hate capitalism defend it against the vast majority of capitalists, who hate capitalism more than any socialist ever did.

                            33/

                            pluralistic@mamot.frP 1 Reply Last reply
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                            • pluralistic@mamot.frP pluralistic@mamot.fr

                              Listening to Keller was a fascinating exercise. I thoroughly disagree with him about many things - the way he characterized Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act couldn't have been more wrong - but it's quite bracing to hear a capitalist who *doesn't* hate capitalism defend it against the vast majority of capitalists, who hate capitalism more than any socialist ever did.

                              33/

                              pluralistic@mamot.frP This user is from outside of this forum
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                              pluralistic@mamot.fr
                              wrote last edited by
                              #35

                              I'm coming to #Guelph, Ontario this Friday (May 😎 to deliver the Musagetes Lecture:

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                              Guelph Lecture—On Being

                              Presented by ArtsEverywhere Festival The 2026 Guelph Lecture—On Being will be presented by Cory Doctorow on the “enshittification” of the internet.

                              favicon

                              River Run Centre (riverrun.ca)

                              eof/

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                              • pluralistic@mamot.frP pluralistic@mamot.fr

                                One of my bedrock beliefs is that capitalists *really* hate capitalism. They may name their beloved institutes after the likes of Adam Smith, but they ignore everything Smith had to say about the necessity of competition to keep markets from turning into monopolies:

                                Link Preview Image
                                Pluralistic: Capitalists hate capitalism (09 June 2023) – Pluralistic: Daily links from Cory Doctorow

                                favicon

                                (pluralistic.net)

                                --

                                If you'd like an essay-formatted version of this thread to read or share, here's a link to it on pluralistic.net, my surveillance-free, ad-free, tracker-free blog:

                                Link Preview Image
                                Pluralistic: In praise of vultures (06 May 2026) – Pluralistic: Daily links from Cory Doctorow

                                favicon

                                (pluralistic.net)

                                1/

                                bencurthoys@mastodon.socialB This user is from outside of this forum
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                                bencurthoys@mastodon.social
                                wrote last edited by
                                #36

                                @pluralistic You mentioned the other day you don't see eye to eye with Mark Carney on much, but there is a tremendous bit by Tomaso Padoa-Schioppa quoted in his book "Values":

                                bencurthoys@mastodon.socialB 1 Reply Last reply
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                                • bencurthoys@mastodon.socialB bencurthoys@mastodon.social

                                  @pluralistic You mentioned the other day you don't see eye to eye with Mark Carney on much, but there is a tremendous bit by Tomaso Padoa-Schioppa quoted in his book "Values":

                                  bencurthoys@mastodon.socialB This user is from outside of this forum
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                                  bencurthoys@mastodon.social
                                  wrote last edited by
                                  #37

                                  @pluralistic "When the two contaminate each other, both deprave".

                                  bencurthoys@mastodon.socialB 1 Reply Last reply
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                                  • pluralistic@mamot.frP pluralistic@mamot.fr

                                    I love this. Vultures live off the disgusting, rotting crap that piles up around us, breeding disease and emitting an unbearable stench. If plaintiff-side, no-win/no-fee lawyers are vultures, then junk fees, wage theft, and the million frauds they fight are the disgusting, rotting crap that vultures feed off of - and the harder we make it for our noble vulture lawyers, the more disgusting, rotting crap we have to live with, hence the unbearable stench that is all around us.

                                    32/

                                    rgulick@social.coopR This user is from outside of this forum
                                    rgulick@social.coopR This user is from outside of this forum
                                    rgulick@social.coop
                                    wrote last edited by
                                    #38

                                    @pluralistic

                                    No one loves vultures or lawyers...

                                    1 Reply Last reply
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                                    • bencurthoys@mastodon.socialB bencurthoys@mastodon.social

                                      @pluralistic "When the two contaminate each other, both deprave".

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                                      bencurthoys@mastodon.social
                                      wrote last edited by
                                      #39

                                      @pluralistic Which is to say, I thoroughly agree with you that capitalists hate capitalism - or they hate competition. And it's the state's job to set the rules by which the capitalists are permitted to play, to force them to compete and to break up monopolies.

                                      But the capitalists have been using their wealth to corrupt power and so need taking down a peg or two by a government prepared to do whatever it takes - including using the state's most treasured monopoly, the monopoly on violence.

                                      bencurthoys@mastodon.socialB 1 Reply Last reply
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                                      • bencurthoys@mastodon.socialB bencurthoys@mastodon.social

                                        @pluralistic Which is to say, I thoroughly agree with you that capitalists hate capitalism - or they hate competition. And it's the state's job to set the rules by which the capitalists are permitted to play, to force them to compete and to break up monopolies.

                                        But the capitalists have been using their wealth to corrupt power and so need taking down a peg or two by a government prepared to do whatever it takes - including using the state's most treasured monopoly, the monopoly on violence.

                                        bencurthoys@mastodon.socialB This user is from outside of this forum
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                                        bencurthoys@mastodon.social
                                        wrote last edited by
                                        #40

                                        @pluralistic something from a couple of months ago - https://www.quora.com/Why-do-some-still-claim-that-capitalism-works-while-all-industries-have-become-monopolized-and-most-people-suffer-from-precarious-employment-and-cannot-afford-basic-necessities-let-alone-start-a-family/answer/Ben-Curthoys

                                        midnitemikewrites@zirk.usM 1 Reply Last reply
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                                        • pluralistic@mamot.frP pluralistic@mamot.fr

                                          One of my bedrock beliefs is that capitalists *really* hate capitalism. They may name their beloved institutes after the likes of Adam Smith, but they ignore everything Smith had to say about the necessity of competition to keep markets from turning into monopolies:

                                          Link Preview Image
                                          Pluralistic: Capitalists hate capitalism (09 June 2023) – Pluralistic: Daily links from Cory Doctorow

                                          favicon

                                          (pluralistic.net)

                                          --

                                          If you'd like an essay-formatted version of this thread to read or share, here's a link to it on pluralistic.net, my surveillance-free, ad-free, tracker-free blog:

                                          Link Preview Image
                                          Pluralistic: In praise of vultures (06 May 2026) – Pluralistic: Daily links from Cory Doctorow

                                          favicon

                                          (pluralistic.net)

                                          1/

                                          nmba@mstdn.caN This user is from outside of this forum
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                                          nmba@mstdn.ca
                                          wrote last edited by
                                          #41

                                          @pluralistic
                                          Unless Adam's invisible hand is controlled by an invisible arm called regulations, then the invisible hand has an invisible impact on monopolization.

                                          epic_null@infosec.exchangeE S 2 Replies Last reply
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