<![CDATA[One of my bedrock beliefs is that capitalists *really* hate capitalism.]]>One of my bedrock beliefs is that capitalists *really* hate capitalism. They may name their beloved institutes after the likes of Adam Smith, but they ignore everything Smith had to say about the necessity of competition to keep markets from turning into monopolies:

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Pluralistic: Capitalists hate capitalism (09 June 2023) – Pluralistic: Daily links from Cory Doctorow

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(pluralistic.net)

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If you'd like an essay-formatted version of this thread to read or share, here's a link to it on pluralistic.net, my surveillance-free, ad-free, tracker-free blog:

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Pluralistic: In praise of vultures (06 May 2026) – Pluralistic: Daily links from Cory Doctorow

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(pluralistic.net)

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]]>https://board.circlewithadot.net/topic/4e83acaa-af2f-42ec-9955-8831a8a278b4/one-of-my-bedrock-beliefs-is-that-capitalists-really-hate-capitalism.RSS for NodeMon, 25 May 2026 08:20:42 GMTWed, 06 May 2026 10:49:12 GMT60<![CDATA[Reply to One of my bedrock beliefs is that capitalists *really* hate capitalism. on Thu, 07 May 2026 11:42:48 GMT]]>@slotos @pluralistic m
Competiton works when regulations ensure a level market to ensure competiton occurs. Monopolies lever unregulated marketsand capture governments to eliminate their competition, eg the tech bros.

]]>https://board.circlewithadot.net/post/https://mstdn.ca/users/NMBA/statuses/116533111593154397https://board.circlewithadot.net/post/https://mstdn.ca/users/NMBA/statuses/116533111593154397Thu, 07 May 2026 11:42:48 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to One of my bedrock beliefs is that capitalists *really* hate capitalism. on Thu, 07 May 2026 11:31:18 GMT]]>@pluralistic I think this is something that, even though it has always been denied by capitalists, has been described by its opponents for a long time, especially Marx:
"Monopoly produces competition, competition
produces monopoly. Monopolists compete among themselves; competi-
tors become monopolists." Marx, poverty of philosophy

]]>https://board.circlewithadot.net/post/https://mas.to/users/fediderps/statuses/116533066353482661https://board.circlewithadot.net/post/https://mas.to/users/fediderps/statuses/116533066353482661Thu, 07 May 2026 11:31:18 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to One of my bedrock beliefs is that capitalists *really* hate capitalism. on Thu, 07 May 2026 11:07:24 GMT]]>@pluralistic ditto religion. Turn the other cheek'? 'Do Unto Others?

Systems of thought are merely convenient rationale for whatever a robber baron wants to get away with.

]]>https://board.circlewithadot.net/post/https://vyrse.social/users/john/statuses/116532972395824379https://board.circlewithadot.net/post/https://vyrse.social/users/john/statuses/116532972395824379Thu, 07 May 2026 11:07:24 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to One of my bedrock beliefs is that capitalists *really* hate capitalism. on Thu, 07 May 2026 09:05:47 GMT]]>@pluralistic But markets can exist without allowing the unlimited accumulation, concentration and centralisation of capital. To allow the latter is an explicit choice by lawmakers.

]]>https://board.circlewithadot.net/post/https://mastodon.nu/users/ahltorp/statuses/116532494185374683https://board.circlewithadot.net/post/https://mastodon.nu/users/ahltorp/statuses/116532494185374683Thu, 07 May 2026 09:05:47 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to One of my bedrock beliefs is that capitalists *really* hate capitalism. on Thu, 07 May 2026 07:30:35 GMT]]>@NMBA @pluralistic Markets work when all decisions are made through markets alone. Regulations is how you ensure that.

]]>https://board.circlewithadot.net/post/https://toot.community/users/slotos/statuses/116532119836913669https://board.circlewithadot.net/post/https://toot.community/users/slotos/statuses/116532119836913669Thu, 07 May 2026 07:30:35 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to One of my bedrock beliefs is that capitalists *really* hate capitalism. on Thu, 07 May 2026 07:21:27 GMT]]>@pluralistic It's always "free™ markets for thee but not for me", whether on a level between corporations or between states.

]]>https://board.circlewithadot.net/post/https://todon.eu/users/menos/statuses/116532083913771766https://board.circlewithadot.net/post/https://todon.eu/users/menos/statuses/116532083913771766Thu, 07 May 2026 07:21:27 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to One of my bedrock beliefs is that capitalists *really* hate capitalism. on Wed, 06 May 2026 18:01:53 GMT]]>@bencurthoys @pluralistic Market capitalism is a metastable system whose governance structure (capitalism) creates affordances that allow market actors to avoid competition. Some are intentional (patents) others emerge from gaming the rules. https://zirk.us/@MidniteMikeWrites/114808262786519399

]]>https://board.circlewithadot.net/post/https://zirk.us/users/MidniteMikeWrites/statuses/116528939889117870https://board.circlewithadot.net/post/https://zirk.us/users/MidniteMikeWrites/statuses/116528939889117870Wed, 06 May 2026 18:01:53 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to One of my bedrock beliefs is that capitalists *really* hate capitalism. on Wed, 06 May 2026 17:16:54 GMT]]>@pluralistic for some reason we don't punish "small business owners" who sell out to big multinationals (or to smol, local conglomerates)

]]>https://board.circlewithadot.net/post/https://mstdn.ca/users/stonykark/statuses/116528763041313040https://board.circlewithadot.net/post/https://mstdn.ca/users/stonykark/statuses/116528763041313040Wed, 06 May 2026 17:16:54 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to One of my bedrock beliefs is that capitalists *really* hate capitalism. on Wed, 06 May 2026 14:38:38 GMT]]>@NMBA @pluralistic It is easiest to hold things using a single bag.

]]>https://board.circlewithadot.net/post/https://infosec.exchange/users/Epic_Null/statuses/116528140667890198https://board.circlewithadot.net/post/https://infosec.exchange/users/Epic_Null/statuses/116528140667890198Wed, 06 May 2026 14:38:38 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to One of my bedrock beliefs is that capitalists *really* hate capitalism. on Wed, 06 May 2026 12:43:36 GMT]]>@pluralistic
Unless Adam's invisible hand is controlled by an invisible arm called regulations, then the invisible hand has an invisible impact on monopolization.

]]>https://board.circlewithadot.net/post/https://mstdn.ca/users/NMBA/statuses/116527688360716142https://board.circlewithadot.net/post/https://mstdn.ca/users/NMBA/statuses/116527688360716142Wed, 06 May 2026 12:43:36 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to One of my bedrock beliefs is that capitalists *really* hate capitalism. on Wed, 06 May 2026 11:12:09 GMT]]>@pluralistic something from a couple of months ago - https://www.quora.com/Why-do-some-still-claim-that-capitalism-works-while-all-industries-have-become-monopolized-and-most-people-suffer-from-precarious-employment-and-cannot-afford-basic-necessities-let-alone-start-a-family/answer/Ben-Curthoys

]]>https://board.circlewithadot.net/post/https://mastodon.social/users/bencurthoys/statuses/116527328731440116https://board.circlewithadot.net/post/https://mastodon.social/users/bencurthoys/statuses/116527328731440116Wed, 06 May 2026 11:12:09 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to One of my bedrock beliefs is that capitalists *really* hate capitalism. on Wed, 06 May 2026 11:11:13 GMT]]>@pluralistic Which is to say, I thoroughly agree with you that capitalists hate capitalism - or they hate competition. And it's the state's job to set the rules by which the capitalists are permitted to play, to force them to compete and to break up monopolies.

But the capitalists have been using their wealth to corrupt power and so need taking down a peg or two by a government prepared to do whatever it takes - including using the state's most treasured monopoly, the monopoly on violence.

]]>https://board.circlewithadot.net/post/https://mastodon.social/users/bencurthoys/statuses/116527325101460462https://board.circlewithadot.net/post/https://mastodon.social/users/bencurthoys/statuses/116527325101460462Wed, 06 May 2026 11:11:13 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to One of my bedrock beliefs is that capitalists *really* hate capitalism. on Wed, 06 May 2026 11:08:21 GMT]]>@pluralistic

No one loves vultures or lawyers...

]]>https://board.circlewithadot.net/post/https://social.coop/users/rgulick/statuses/116527313784956670https://board.circlewithadot.net/post/https://social.coop/users/rgulick/statuses/116527313784956670Wed, 06 May 2026 11:08:21 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to One of my bedrock beliefs is that capitalists *really* hate capitalism. on Wed, 06 May 2026 11:08:07 GMT]]>@pluralistic "When the two contaminate each other, both deprave".

]]>https://board.circlewithadot.net/post/https://mastodon.social/users/bencurthoys/statuses/116527312880485729https://board.circlewithadot.net/post/https://mastodon.social/users/bencurthoys/statuses/116527312880485729Wed, 06 May 2026 11:08:07 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to One of my bedrock beliefs is that capitalists *really* hate capitalism. on Wed, 06 May 2026 11:07:49 GMT]]>@pluralistic You mentioned the other day you don't see eye to eye with Mark Carney on much, but there is a tremendous bit by Tomaso Padoa-Schioppa quoted in his book "Values":

]]>https://board.circlewithadot.net/post/https://mastodon.social/users/bencurthoys/statuses/116527311685997922https://board.circlewithadot.net/post/https://mastodon.social/users/bencurthoys/statuses/116527311685997922Wed, 06 May 2026 11:07:49 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to One of my bedrock beliefs is that capitalists *really* hate capitalism. on Wed, 06 May 2026 10:59:49 GMT]]>I'm coming to , Ontario this Friday (May 😎 to deliver the Musagetes Lecture:

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Guelph Lecture—On Being

Presented by ArtsEverywhere Festival The 2026 Guelph Lecture—On Being will be presented by Cory Doctorow on the “enshittification” of the internet.

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River Run Centre (riverrun.ca)

eof/

]]>https://board.circlewithadot.net/post/https://mamot.fr/users/pluralistic/statuses/116527280237650609https://board.circlewithadot.net/post/https://mamot.fr/users/pluralistic/statuses/116527280237650609Wed, 06 May 2026 10:59:49 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to One of my bedrock beliefs is that capitalists *really* hate capitalism. on Wed, 06 May 2026 10:59:43 GMT]]>Listening to Keller was a fascinating exercise. I thoroughly disagree with him about many things - the way he characterized Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act couldn't have been more wrong - but it's quite bracing to hear a capitalist who *doesn't* hate capitalism defend it against the vast majority of capitalists, who hate capitalism more than any socialist ever did.

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]]>https://board.circlewithadot.net/post/https://mamot.fr/users/pluralistic/statuses/116527279849750982https://board.circlewithadot.net/post/https://mamot.fr/users/pluralistic/statuses/116527279849750982Wed, 06 May 2026 10:59:43 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to One of my bedrock beliefs is that capitalists *really* hate capitalism. on Wed, 06 May 2026 10:59:32 GMT]]>I love this. Vultures live off the disgusting, rotting crap that piles up around us, breeding disease and emitting an unbearable stench. If plaintiff-side, no-win/no-fee lawyers are vultures, then junk fees, wage theft, and the million frauds they fight are the disgusting, rotting crap that vultures feed off of - and the harder we make it for our noble vulture lawyers, the more disgusting, rotting crap we have to live with, hence the unbearable stench that is all around us.

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]]>https://board.circlewithadot.net/post/https://mamot.fr/users/pluralistic/statuses/116527279120312748https://board.circlewithadot.net/post/https://mamot.fr/users/pluralistic/statuses/116527279120312748Wed, 06 May 2026 10:59:32 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to One of my bedrock beliefs is that capitalists *really* hate capitalism. on Wed, 06 May 2026 10:58:55 GMT]]>That's real money, which is why every company has figured out a way to whack you for $20,.

There's two ways to end this: one is litigation, the other is regulation, and the capitalism-hating-capitalists who run the world want to kill both. That's why the business lobby smears lawyers like Keller as being "vultures." But as Matt Stoller says, "vultures look aggressive and whatnot, but when you actually get rid of vultures out of an ecosystem, all sorts of things go haywire."

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]]>https://board.circlewithadot.net/post/https://mamot.fr/users/pluralistic/statuses/116527276733655769https://board.circlewithadot.net/post/https://mamot.fr/users/pluralistic/statuses/116527276733655769Wed, 06 May 2026 10:58:55 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to One of my bedrock beliefs is that capitalists *really* hate capitalism. on Wed, 06 May 2026 10:58:19 GMT]]>One of Keller's most forceful points is that class action suits are especially important for reining in petty, recurrent grifts, the junk fees that are the hallmark of enshittification.

He quotes his old boss, the archconservative judge Richard Posner, who said "Only a lunatic or a fanatic sues for $20." But if you multiply a $20 junk fee by ten million purchases, a company can use that fact to make *hundreds of millions* of dollars.

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]]>https://board.circlewithadot.net/post/https://mamot.fr/users/pluralistic/statuses/116527274336590837https://board.circlewithadot.net/post/https://mamot.fr/users/pluralistic/statuses/116527274336590837Wed, 06 May 2026 10:58:19 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to One of my bedrock beliefs is that capitalists *really* hate capitalism. on Wed, 06 May 2026 10:58:04 GMT]]>They don't want efficient markets, with the ever-present threat of a better competitor putting them out of business. They want feudalism. They want to go meta. They want to have the kind of self-determination you can only achieve by taking away everyone else's self-determination.

I was very struck by Keller's claim to be engaged in an exercise that Milton Friedman identified as the best one for making markets work.

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]]>https://board.circlewithadot.net/post/https://mamot.fr/users/pluralistic/statuses/116527273385160322https://board.circlewithadot.net/post/https://mamot.fr/users/pluralistic/statuses/116527273385160322Wed, 06 May 2026 10:58:04 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to One of my bedrock beliefs is that capitalists *really* hate capitalism. on Wed, 06 May 2026 10:57:47 GMT]]>But, of course, the businesses that want binding arbitration and tort reform (so they can't be sued) *also* want to "dismantle the administrative state" (so they can't be regulated). They're the impunity movement, the "when the president does it, that means it is not illegal" movement, the "heads I win, tails you lose" movement. They're the caveat emptor movement, the "that makes me smart" movement:

https://pluralistic.net/2024/12/04/its-not-a-lie/#its-a-premature-truth

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]]>https://board.circlewithadot.net/post/https://mamot.fr/users/pluralistic/statuses/116527272245553022https://board.circlewithadot.net/post/https://mamot.fr/users/pluralistic/statuses/116527272245553022Wed, 06 May 2026 10:57:47 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to One of my bedrock beliefs is that capitalists *really* hate capitalism. on Wed, 06 May 2026 10:57:36 GMT]]>Keller's first big, important point is that (basically), capitalists hate capitalism (see above). He cites Milton Friedman, who "always said that the tort system is the best way to ensure that companies behave and follow the rules." For Keller (and Friedman) the alternative to private litigation against bad businesses is "government regulation and the alphabet soup of Washington, DC agencies [that] try and police these companies."

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]]>https://board.circlewithadot.net/post/https://mamot.fr/users/pluralistic/statuses/116527271562494201https://board.circlewithadot.net/post/https://mamot.fr/users/pluralistic/statuses/116527271562494201Wed, 06 May 2026 10:57:36 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to One of my bedrock beliefs is that capitalists *really* hate capitalism. on Wed, 06 May 2026 10:57:03 GMT]]>He also just argued before the Supreme Court in a case against Monsanto over the company's attempt to escape liability for causing cancer in farmworkers with their Roundup pesticide:

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Supreme Court heard case on how to label risks of popular weed killer

How the Supreme Court rules could have implications for tens of thousands of lawsuits against Roundup maker Monsanto, which is now owned by Bayer.

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NPR (www.npr.org)

Keller appears in the latest episode of the Organized Money podcast, for a fascinating interview about his work and outlook, and how he reconciles his work fighting corporate power with his identity as a movement conservative:

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The Conservative Who Torments Big Business

We are faced with corporate power so vast it spawned a conservative antitrust movement.

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(www.organizedmoney.fm)

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]]>https://board.circlewithadot.net/post/https://mamot.fr/users/pluralistic/statuses/116527269407499370https://board.circlewithadot.net/post/https://mamot.fr/users/pluralistic/statuses/116527269407499370Wed, 06 May 2026 10:57:03 GMT