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  3. The Supreme Court has just turned down a petition to hear an appeal in a case that held that AI works can't be copyrighted.

The Supreme Court has just turned down a petition to hear an appeal in a case that held that AI works can't be copyrighted.

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  • pluralistic@mamot.frP pluralistic@mamot.fr

    Copyright didn't come down from a mountain on two stone tablets. It's just a law, and laws can be amended. I think that amending copyright to ban training a model would inflict substantial collateral damage on everything from search engines to scholarship, but perhaps you disagree. Maybe you think that you could wordsmith a new copyright law that bans training without whacking a bunch of socially beneficial activities.

    Even if that's so, *it still wouldn't help artists*.

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    pluralistic@mamot.fr
    wrote last edited by
    #18

    To understand why, consider Universal and Disney's lawsuit against Midjourney. The day that lawsuit dropped, I got a press release from the RIAA, signed by its CEO, Mitch Glazier. Here's how it began:

    > There is a clear path forward through partnerships that both further AI innovation and foster human artistry. Unfortunately, some bad actors – like Midjourney – see only a zero-sum, winner-take-all game.

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    • pluralistic@mamot.frP pluralistic@mamot.fr

      To understand why, consider Universal and Disney's lawsuit against Midjourney. The day that lawsuit dropped, I got a press release from the RIAA, signed by its CEO, Mitch Glazier. Here's how it began:

      > There is a clear path forward through partnerships that both further AI innovation and foster human artistry. Unfortunately, some bad actors – like Midjourney – see only a zero-sum, winner-take-all game.

      18/

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      pluralistic@mamot.fr
      wrote last edited by
      #19

      The RIAA represents record labels, not film studios, but thanks to vertical integration, the big film studios are *also* the big record labels. That's why the RIAA alerted the press to its position on this suit.

      There's two important things to note about the RIAA press release: how it opened, and how it closed. It opens by stating that the companies involved want "partnerships" with AI companies.

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      • pluralistic@mamot.frP pluralistic@mamot.fr

        The RIAA represents record labels, not film studios, but thanks to vertical integration, the big film studios are *also* the big record labels. That's why the RIAA alerted the press to its position on this suit.

        There's two important things to note about the RIAA press release: how it opened, and how it closed. It opens by stating that the companies involved want "partnerships" with AI companies.

        19/

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        pluralistic@mamot.fr
        wrote last edited by
        #20

        In other words, if they establish that they have the right to control training on their archives, they *won't* use that right to prevent the creation of AI models that compete with creative workers. Rather, they will use that right to *get paid* when those models are created.

        Expanding copyright to cover models isn't about *preventing* generative AI technologies - it's about ensuring that these technologies are licensed by incumbent media companies.

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        • pluralistic@mamot.frP pluralistic@mamot.fr

          In other words, if they establish that they have the right to control training on their archives, they *won't* use that right to prevent the creation of AI models that compete with creative workers. Rather, they will use that right to *get paid* when those models are created.

          Expanding copyright to cover models isn't about *preventing* generative AI technologies - it's about ensuring that these technologies are licensed by incumbent media companies.

          20/

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          pluralistic@mamot.fr
          wrote last edited by
          #21

          This licensure would ensure that media companies would get paid for training, but it would also let them set the terms on which the resulting models were used. The studios could demand that AI companies put "guardrails" on the resulting models to stop them from being used to output things that might compete with the studios' own products.

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          pluralistic@mamot.frP 1 Reply Last reply
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          • pluralistic@mamot.frP pluralistic@mamot.fr

            This licensure would ensure that media companies would get paid for training, but it would also let them set the terms on which the resulting models were used. The studios could demand that AI companies put "guardrails" on the resulting models to stop them from being used to output things that might compete with the studios' own products.

            21/

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            pluralistic@mamot.fr
            wrote last edited by
            #22

            That's what the opening of this press-release signifies, but to really understand its true meaning, you have to look at the *closing* of the release: the signature at the bottom of it, "Mitch Glazier, CEO, RIAA."

            Who is Mitch Glazier? Well, he *used* to be a Congressional staffer. He was the guy responsible for sneaking a clause into an unrelated bill that repealed "termination of transfer" for musicians.

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            pluralistic@mamot.frP 1 Reply Last reply
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            • pluralistic@mamot.frP pluralistic@mamot.fr

              That's what the opening of this press-release signifies, but to really understand its true meaning, you have to look at the *closing* of the release: the signature at the bottom of it, "Mitch Glazier, CEO, RIAA."

              Who is Mitch Glazier? Well, he *used* to be a Congressional staffer. He was the guy responsible for sneaking a clause into an unrelated bill that repealed "termination of transfer" for musicians.

              22/

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              pluralistic@mamot.fr
              wrote last edited by
              #23

              "Termination" is a part of copyright law that lets creators take back their rights after 35 years, even if they originally signed a contract for a "perpetual license."

              Under termination, all kinds of creative workers who got royally screwed at the start of their careers were able to get their copyrights back and re-sell them. The primary beneficiaries of termination are musicians, who signed notoriously shitty contracts in the 1950s-1980s:

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              Take it back – Pluralistic: Daily links from Cory Doctorow

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              • pluralistic@mamot.frP pluralistic@mamot.fr

                "Termination" is a part of copyright law that lets creators take back their rights after 35 years, even if they originally signed a contract for a "perpetual license."

                Under termination, all kinds of creative workers who got royally screwed at the start of their careers were able to get their copyrights back and re-sell them. The primary beneficiaries of termination are musicians, who signed notoriously shitty contracts in the 1950s-1980s:

                Link Preview Image
                Take it back – Pluralistic: Daily links from Cory Doctorow

                favicon

                (pluralistic.net)

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                pluralistic@mamot.frP This user is from outside of this forum
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                pluralistic@mamot.fr
                wrote last edited by
                #24

                When Mitch Glazier snuck a termination-destroying clause into legislation, he set the stage for the poorest, most abused, most admired musicians in recording history to lose access to money that let them buy a couple bags of groceries and make the rent. He condemned these beloved musicians to poverty.

                What happened next is something of a Smurfs Family Christmas miracle.

                24/

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                • pluralistic@mamot.frP pluralistic@mamot.fr

                  When Mitch Glazier snuck a termination-destroying clause into legislation, he set the stage for the poorest, most abused, most admired musicians in recording history to lose access to money that let them buy a couple bags of groceries and make the rent. He condemned these beloved musicians to poverty.

                  What happened next is something of a Smurfs Family Christmas miracle.

                  24/

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                  pluralistic@mamot.fr
                  wrote last edited by
                  #25

                  Musicians were so outraged by this ripoff, and their fans were so outraged on their behalf, that Congress convened a special session solely to repeal the clause that Mitch Glazier tricked them into voting for. Shortly thereafter, Glazier was out of Congress:

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                  Mitch Glazier - Wikipedia

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                  • pluralistic@mamot.frP pluralistic@mamot.fr

                    Musicians were so outraged by this ripoff, and their fans were so outraged on their behalf, that Congress convened a special session solely to repeal the clause that Mitch Glazier tricked them into voting for. Shortly thereafter, Glazier was out of Congress:

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                    Mitch Glazier - Wikipedia

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                    (en.wikipedia.org)

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                    wrote last edited by
                    #26

                    But this story has a happy ending for Glazier, too - he might have been out of his government job, but he had a new gig, as CEO of the Recording Industry Association of America, where he earns more than $1.3 million/year to carry on the work he did in Congress - serving the interests of the record labels:

                    Link Preview Image
                    Record Industry Association Of America Inc - Nonprofit Explorer - ProPublica

                    Since 2013, the IRS has released data culled from millions of nonprofit tax filings. Use this database to find organizations and see details like their executive compensation, revenue and expenses, as well as download tax filings going back as far as 2001.

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                    ProPublica (projects.propublica.org)

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                    • pluralistic@mamot.frP pluralistic@mamot.fr

                      But this story has a happy ending for Glazier, too - he might have been out of his government job, but he had a new gig, as CEO of the Recording Industry Association of America, where he earns more than $1.3 million/year to carry on the work he did in Congress - serving the interests of the record labels:

                      Link Preview Image
                      Record Industry Association Of America Inc - Nonprofit Explorer - ProPublica

                      Since 2013, the IRS has released data culled from millions of nonprofit tax filings. Use this database to find organizations and see details like their executive compensation, revenue and expenses, as well as download tax filings going back as far as 2001.

                      favicon

                      ProPublica (projects.propublica.org)

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                      pluralistic@mamot.frP This user is from outside of this forum
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                      pluralistic@mamot.fr
                      wrote last edited by
                      #27

                      Mitch Glazier serves the interests of the *labels*, not musicians. He *can't* serve both interests, because every dime a musician takes home is a dime that the labels don't get to realize as profits. Labels and musicians are class enemies. The fact that many musicians are on the labels' side when they sue AI companies *does not* mean that the labels are on the musicians' side.

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                      • pluralistic@mamot.frP pluralistic@mamot.fr

                        Mitch Glazier serves the interests of the *labels*, not musicians. He *can't* serve both interests, because every dime a musician takes home is a dime that the labels don't get to realize as profits. Labels and musicians are class enemies. The fact that many musicians are on the labels' side when they sue AI companies *does not* mean that the labels are on the musicians' side.

                        27/

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                        pluralistic@mamot.fr
                        wrote last edited by
                        #28

                        What will the media companies do if they win their suits? Glazier gives us the answer in the opening of his release: they will create "partnerships" with AI companies to train models on the work we produce.

                        This is the lesson of the past 40 years of copyright expansion. For 40 years, we have expanded copyright in every way: copyright lasts longer, covers more works, prohibits more uses without licenses, establishes higher penalties, and makes it easier to win those penalties.

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                        • pluralistic@mamot.frP pluralistic@mamot.fr

                          What will the media companies do if they win their suits? Glazier gives us the answer in the opening of his release: they will create "partnerships" with AI companies to train models on the work we produce.

                          This is the lesson of the past 40 years of copyright expansion. For 40 years, we have expanded copyright in every way: copyright lasts longer, covers more works, prohibits more uses without licenses, establishes higher penalties, and makes it easier to win those penalties.

                          28/

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                          pluralistic@mamot.fr
                          wrote last edited by
                          #29

                          Today, the media industry is larger and more profitable than at any time, *and* the share of those profits that artists take home is smaller than ever.

                          How has the expansion of copyright led to media companies getting richer and artists getting poorer? That's the question that Rebecca Giblin and I answer in our 2022 book *Chokepoint Capitalism*.

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                          • pluralistic@mamot.frP pluralistic@mamot.fr

                            Today, the media industry is larger and more profitable than at any time, *and* the share of those profits that artists take home is smaller than ever.

                            How has the expansion of copyright led to media companies getting richer and artists getting poorer? That's the question that Rebecca Giblin and I answer in our 2022 book *Chokepoint Capitalism*.

                            29/

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                            wrote last edited by
                            #30

                            In a nutshell: in a world of five publishers, four studios, three labels, two app companies and one company that controls all ebooks and audiobooks, giving a creative worker more copyright is like giving your bullied kid extra lunch money. It doesn't matter how much lunch money you give that kid - the bullies will take it all, and the kid will go hungry:

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                            What is Chokepoint Capitalism? – Pluralistic: Daily links from Cory Doctorow

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                            • pluralistic@mamot.frP pluralistic@mamot.fr

                              In a nutshell: in a world of five publishers, four studios, three labels, two app companies and one company that controls all ebooks and audiobooks, giving a creative worker more copyright is like giving your bullied kid extra lunch money. It doesn't matter how much lunch money you give that kid - the bullies will take it all, and the kid will go hungry:

                              Link Preview Image
                              What is Chokepoint Capitalism? – Pluralistic: Daily links from Cory Doctorow

                              favicon

                              (pluralistic.net)

                              30/

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                              pluralistic@mamot.fr
                              wrote last edited by
                              #31

                              Indeed, if you keep giving that kid more lunch money, the bullies will eventually have enough dough that they'll hire a fancy ad-agency to blitz the world with a campaign insisting that our schoolkids are all going hungry and need *even more* lunch money (they'll take that money, too).

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                              • pluralistic@mamot.frP pluralistic@mamot.fr

                                Indeed, if you keep giving that kid more lunch money, the bullies will eventually have enough dough that they'll hire a fancy ad-agency to blitz the world with a campaign insisting that our schoolkids are all going hungry and need *even more* lunch money (they'll take that money, too).

                                31/

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                                pluralistic@mamot.fr
                                wrote last edited by
                                #32

                                When Mitch Glazier - who got a $1m+/year job for the labels after attempting to pauperize musicans - writes on behalf of Disney in support of a copyright suit to establish that copyright prevents training a model without a license, he's not defending creative workers.

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                                • pluralistic@mamot.frP pluralistic@mamot.fr

                                  When Mitch Glazier - who got a $1m+/year job for the labels after attempting to pauperize musicans - writes on behalf of Disney in support of a copyright suit to establish that copyright prevents training a model without a license, he's not defending creative workers.

                                  32/

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                                  pluralistic@mamot.fr
                                  wrote last edited by
                                  #33

                                  Disney is the company that takes the position that if it buys a company like Lucasfilm or Fox, it only acquires the *right* to use the works we made for those companies, but not the *obligation* to pay us when they do:

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                                  Pluralistic: 29 Apr 2021 – Pluralistic: Daily links from Cory Doctorow

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                                  If a new, unambiguous copyright over model training comes into existence - whether through a court precedent or a new law - then all our contracts will be amended to non-negotiably require us to assign that right to our bosses.

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                                  • pluralistic@mamot.frP pluralistic@mamot.fr

                                    Disney is the company that takes the position that if it buys a company like Lucasfilm or Fox, it only acquires the *right* to use the works we made for those companies, but not the *obligation* to pay us when they do:

                                    Link Preview Image
                                    Pluralistic: 29 Apr 2021 – Pluralistic: Daily links from Cory Doctorow

                                    favicon

                                    (pluralistic.net)

                                    If a new, unambiguous copyright over model training comes into existence - whether through a court precedent or a new law - then all our contracts will be amended to non-negotiably require us to assign that right to our bosses.

                                    33/

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                                    wrote last edited by
                                    #34

                                    And our bosses will enter into "partnerships" to train models on our works. And those models will exist for one purpose: to let them create works without paying us.

                                    The market concentration that lets our bosses dictate terms to us is getting *much* worse, and it's only speeding up. Getty Images - who sued Stability AI over image generation - is merging with Shutterstock:

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                                    Photographers alarmed by Getty/Shutterstock merger

                                    Several photographers have warned that the merger of Getty Images and Shutterstock will result in even smaller commissions for artists, in a deal that could test the Trump Administration's desire to protect labour competition. 

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                                    And Paramount is merging with Warners:

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                                    Pluralistic: California can stop Larry Ellison from buying Warners (28 Feb 2026) – Pluralistic: Daily links from Cory Doctorow

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                                    • pluralistic@mamot.frP pluralistic@mamot.fr

                                      And our bosses will enter into "partnerships" to train models on our works. And those models will exist for one purpose: to let them create works without paying us.

                                      The market concentration that lets our bosses dictate terms to us is getting *much* worse, and it's only speeding up. Getty Images - who sued Stability AI over image generation - is merging with Shutterstock:

                                      Link Preview Image
                                      Photographers alarmed by Getty/Shutterstock merger

                                      Several photographers have warned that the merger of Getty Images and Shutterstock will result in even smaller commissions for artists, in a deal that could test the Trump Administration's desire to protect labour competition. 

                                      favicon

                                      (globalcompetitionreview.com)

                                      And Paramount is merging with Warners:

                                      Link Preview Image
                                      Pluralistic: California can stop Larry Ellison from buying Warners (28 Feb 2026) – Pluralistic: Daily links from Cory Doctorow

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                                      (pluralistic.net)

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                                      pluralistic@mamot.fr
                                      wrote last edited by
                                      #35

                                      This is where this new SCOTUS action comes in. A new copyright that covers training is just one more thing these increasingly powerful members of this increasingly incestuous cartel can force us to sign away. That new copyright isn't something for us to bargain *with*, it's something we'll bargain *away*.

                                      But the fact that the works that a model produces are automatically in the public domain is something we *can't* bargain away. It's a legal *fact*, not a legal *right*.

                                      35/

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                                      • pluralistic@mamot.frP pluralistic@mamot.fr

                                        This is where this new SCOTUS action comes in. A new copyright that covers training is just one more thing these increasingly powerful members of this increasingly incestuous cartel can force us to sign away. That new copyright isn't something for us to bargain *with*, it's something we'll bargain *away*.

                                        But the fact that the works that a model produces are automatically in the public domain is something we *can't* bargain away. It's a legal *fact*, not a legal *right*.

                                        35/

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                                        pluralistic@mamot.fr
                                        wrote last edited by
                                        #36

                                        It means the more humans there are involved in the creation of a work, the more copyrightable the work is.

                                        Media bosses love AI because it dangles a tantalizing possibility of running a firm without ego-shattering confrontations with creative workers who know how to do things. It's the solipsistic fantasy of a world without workers, in which a media boss conceives of a "product," prompts a sycophantic AI, and receives an item that's ready for sale:

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                                        Pluralistic: A world without people (05 Jan 2026) – Pluralistic: Daily links from Cory Doctorow

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                                        • pluralistic@mamot.frP pluralistic@mamot.fr

                                          It means the more humans there are involved in the creation of a work, the more copyrightable the work is.

                                          Media bosses love AI because it dangles a tantalizing possibility of running a firm without ego-shattering confrontations with creative workers who know how to do things. It's the solipsistic fantasy of a world without workers, in which a media boss conceives of a "product," prompts a sycophantic AI, and receives an item that's ready for sale:

                                          Link Preview Image
                                          Pluralistic: A world without people (05 Jan 2026) – Pluralistic: Daily links from Cory Doctorow

                                          favicon

                                          (pluralistic.net)

                                          36/

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                                          pluralistic@mamot.fr
                                          wrote last edited by
                                          #37

                                          Many bosses know this isn't within reach. They imagine that they'll get the AI to shit out a script and then pay a writer on the cheap to "polish" it. They think they'll get an AI to shit out a motion sequence, a still, or a 3D model and then pay a human artist pennies to put the "final touches" on it.

                                          37/

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