#QuestionOfTheDay what's a type of protagonist/hero you just absolutely can't stand and is more than likely to make you nope out of a story (either right at the beginning or eventually because you just can't stand them)?

[aharper@mstdn.social]

@ami_angelwings Handsome, white, men. Any one of those three is a strike, all three and I'm out. It's not that I personally dislike good looking white guys, I've just read too many stories starring them. Give me the "chosen one" trope about a haggard looking old woman and I'll give it a fair chance. At least there's a possibility of treading new ground.

[canageek@wandering.shop]

@xgranade @ami_angelwings That's interesting because I remember hearing an interview with Robin D Laws and he talked about how there are two types of characters, ones who are changed by the story they're in, and ones who have already been changed and wind up changing the world

[canageek@wandering.shop]

@xgranade @ami_angelwings I'm sure there's more than those two types, and I'm also remembering an interview that I heard in like 2012 when he started writing Pathfinder novels

[mast0d0nphan@beige.party]

@ami_angelwings The unrealistically optimistic protagonist who's invincible to pain, torture, or any kind of conflict that is instead experienced by their grouchy nextdoor neighbor who's destined to be shat on by the universe.

Y'know, your modern SpongeBobs, Coconut Freds, Unikitties, etc.

[leojetskifuelnardo@mastodon.social]

@ami_angelwings Twee and all knowing.

Whatever Ryan Reynolds is.

[rinmari@urusai.social]

@adriano @ami_angelwings

IMHO, nice characters can be interesting too! That doesn't make them "sue" characters! There are ways to develop a such a character!

[greyduck@wellduck.me]

@ami_angelwings The "all heart no brains" protag. Gets by entirely on their positive can-do energy and the power of friendship but are chronically, colossally useless in nearly every way. Be good at something, protag-kun. PLEASE.

Yes, this also includes "the genki girl" stereotype when "genki" is the start and end of her characterization.

[greyduck@wellduck.me]

@thepi @ami_angelwings I had such a hard time explaining to certain people why I could be highly entertained by one Rowan Atkinson character (Blackadder) while the other popular one (Mr Bean) drives me absolutely around the bend from distaste. "But it's the same guy!" Gaaah.

[greyduck@wellduck.me]

@moxxieraccoon @ami_angelwings "Bro, you can write that self-indulgent fanfic about What If I Was The Specialest Boy Who Ever Specialed but we don't all have to like reading it."

[moxxieraccoon@is.nota.live]

@greyduck @ami_angelwings it appears on "best fiction lists" far too regularly for how good it is.

[greyduck@wellduck.me]

@moxxieraccoon I'll grant that the books have craftsmanship going for them, in sheer "technical wordsmithing" terms.

But once you get past that, you're stuck with a *deeply* indulgent story that doesn't earn even half of the liberties it takes with characterization and plot conveniences.

[karstan@pdx.social]

@moxxieraccoon @ami_angelwings right?!? That book was THE WORST. Like, his only flaw was that he was too perfect. 🤮

That series was just page after page of white, male power fantasies.

[zdl@gamerplus.org]

@ami_angelwings Absolutely any situation where a child consistently (once in a while is OK) proves to be smarter than a thousand trained professionals around him is me closing the book, turning off the TV, leaving the theatre, etc.

I call it the Crusher Test after a particularly egregious example of it; a character that I can point to as one of three causes for me ditching the Star Trek franchise forever.

🧵 ️

[zdl@gamerplus.org]

@ami_angelwings When a long-standing character gets a rewrite that drastically changes everything about their nature—you know, the things that made me *like* the character in the first place—that's also the death knell for me ever reading/watching/following anything related to that character ever again.

I call this the Miller Effect after the butchering Frank Miller did to the Batman character.

🧵 ️

[zdl@gamerplus.org]

@ami_angelwings This is broader than a single character, but if I can't find a single protagonist in a story I can at least like a little bit, that's the end of that story for me.

This is doubly so if I find myself rooting for the bad guys.

🧵 ️

[neia@zoner.work]

@ami_angelwings@urusai.social The LE Modesitt Jr type protagonist. He (it's almost always a man) is right about things, and when someone else is wrong, he tends to kill them. And somehow there's never an investigation or anything; he gets away with it. Because apparently everyone realizes the dead guy was in the wrong all along, or Mr Protagonist is too valuable to punish, or something.

What's that? Tell the authorities about the problem? Impossible!

[thepi@urusai.social]

@aharper @ami_angelwings what if we promise to shave the man properly this time? that will surely shake things up

[skleefeld@retro.pizza]

@ami_angelwings The self-righteous

[bryanredeagle@beige.party]

@ami_angelwings
The Noir Detective, their stories are always so depressing.
The Power Fantasy, made popular by isekai and boring as hell.

[scottmichaud@mastodon.gamedev.place]

@ami_angelwings Ones that are perpetually blamed and framed for everything.