Is #mastodon becoming an echo chamber?
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@scottjenson I'm not sure this is the best example of Mastodon gatekeeping. I suspect the person you cite (I won't tag him, to not bother him. I follow him. He doesn't follow me) has a different definition of 'engagement' than many on Mastodon. He has 19,000 followers. He follows just over 200. He never ever engages with anyone. He posts one-way toots. He never uses Alt Text. The Fediverse is a chatty place full of engagement, if you choose to take part yourself, to chat, to boost, to reply.
This is exactly it.
People like to be talked to, not talked at.
Accounts in "broadcast mode" do better on other platforms, with different styles of use.
People get ridiculous cognitive dissonance when they don't do numbers.
I remember in 22 an account for a housing activist group was blasting out pronouncements that nobody was disagreeing with but they weren't doing numbers so they went to back to Twitter to tell everyone we were all landlords.
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@scottjenson I love Mastodon because it feels like “old” twitter, a bunch of clever people sharing stuff they’ve made or found or figured out… not to build a “following”, but because they’re passionate about it.
That said, lately I’ve noticed my feed getting filled with more negativity around certain topics, and people I respect getting radicalised in one direction or another (signs of an echo chamber).
Rather than muting entire people or topics, I kinda want to mute the negativity itself.
@scottjenson I’m also wary that chasing “engagement” is what led Twitter to actively encourage things that provoke arguments.
Are we able to differentiate positive engagement (bringing people together) from negative engagement (divisive) in a universal way?
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This is exactly it.
People like to be talked to, not talked at.
Accounts in "broadcast mode" do better on other platforms, with different styles of use.
People get ridiculous cognitive dissonance when they don't do numbers.
I remember in 22 an account for a housing activist group was blasting out pronouncements that nobody was disagreeing with but they weren't doing numbers so they went to back to Twitter to tell everyone we were all landlords.
@davey_cakes @scottjenson Agreed. I'm reminded of a science journalist who turns up about once a year to post one-way toots for a few days before disappearing again. Last time, she complained that she was 'screaming into a void'. Literally hundreds of people replied from 'the void', welcoming her. She responded to 0 of them. 2000 people follow her. She follows 0. She's never replied, boosted or engaged with anyone. Fediverse held the gate wide open for her, but she just shouted at us and left.
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@TeflonTrout @corbden @isagalaev @scottjenson @devlord @carnage4life If you didn't want to talk about it you could've so very easily just ignored the thread.
@Mabande @corbden @isagalaev @scottjenson @devlord @carnage4life
on the same token, if you don't like what I say you can ignore or block me, it goes both ways.
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@davey_cakes @scottjenson Agreed. I'm reminded of a science journalist who turns up about once a year to post one-way toots for a few days before disappearing again. Last time, she complained that she was 'screaming into a void'. Literally hundreds of people replied from 'the void', welcoming her. She responded to 0 of them. 2000 people follow her. She follows 0. She's never replied, boosted or engaged with anyone. Fediverse held the gate wide open for her, but she just shouted at us and left.
@CiaraNi @davey_cakes @scottjenson I think if I was concerned about bringing more voices to fedi journalists wouldn't be a high priority considering they have quite a voice (reach) already by nature of their occupation. Not that I have anything against journalists or am opposed to them being here…
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@CiaraNi @davey_cakes @scottjenson I think if I was concerned about bringing more voices to fedi journalists wouldn't be a high priority considering they have quite a voice (reach) already by nature of their occupation. Not that I have anything against journalists or am opposed to them being here…
@reynir @davey_cakes @scottjenson Agreed. I don't think anyone has anything against journalists being here, but they can't expect much more than disinterest if they only ever broadcast one-way toots.
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@Mabande @corbden @isagalaev @scottjenson @devlord @carnage4life
on the same token, if you don't like what I say you can ignore or block me, it goes both ways.
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Is #mastodon becoming an echo chamber? This post from @carnage4life has me questioning our community. The Mastodon team is finally getting some traction, the product improvements are increasing, The #UX is improving, yet people posting on multiple platforms are making comments like this. It's confusing.
I *know* people here don't want this to be a classic social media-clone but we'd *like* journalists to be here right? They aren't coming with examples like this!
@scottjenson @carnage4life i have been feeling a lot like this. i think theres 2 phenomena here:
1. people here don't seem to be able to distinguish between "capitalism" and the vague and general concept of "AI" - i sense most people are libs/centrists
2. mastodon is 80% programmers. programmers as a class have spent the last 3 decades taking everyone elses job. now its come for theirs they are perhaps unsuprisingly a bit touchy about it (see point 1)
its logical fallacies everywhere rn tho
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@scottjenson @carnage4life i have been feeling a lot like this. i think theres 2 phenomena here:
1. people here don't seem to be able to distinguish between "capitalism" and the vague and general concept of "AI" - i sense most people are libs/centrists
2. mastodon is 80% programmers. programmers as a class have spent the last 3 decades taking everyone elses job. now its come for theirs they are perhaps unsuprisingly a bit touchy about it (see point 1)
its logical fallacies everywhere rn tho
@scottjenson @carnage4life but yeah as a disabled trans woman maintaining 2 communtiy platforms and a tech nonprofit, claude has been pretty transformative for me in terms of being able to keep on top of workloads, get bids in, advance our codebases, and so on. and im very very tired of coming on here every day to read people think im scum for using it. some of the people who replied to this thread i am extremely dissapointed by and it makes me judge them poorly as people.
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@scottjenson I'm not sure this is the best example of Mastodon gatekeeping. I suspect the person you cite (I won't tag him, to not bother him. I follow him. He doesn't follow me) has a different definition of 'engagement' than many on Mastodon. He has 19,000 followers. He follows just over 200. He never ever engages with anyone. He posts one-way toots. He never uses Alt Text. The Fediverse is a chatty place full of engagement, if you choose to take part yourself, to chat, to boost, to reply.
@CiaraNi @scottjenson yeah this nails it for me. Folks like this want a broadcast medium - that’s not what I’m here for. I could subscribe to an RSS feed if I wanted that.
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@CiaraNi @scottjenson yeah this nails it for me. Folks like this want a broadcast medium - that’s not what I’m here for. I could subscribe to an RSS feed if I wanted that.
@awfulwoman @CiaraNi @scottjenson
social network
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@trisweb @cratermoon @scottjenson @Gargron by definition, no. Literally anyone can spin up a server and talk about anything/try to get more folk to listen…
But other folk have to want to listen to whatever they are saying. Servers and individuals can just decide not to. No one is guaranteed an audience, just the ability to speak.
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@Gargron That is a personal choice and one which I totally respect. But I do think Mastodon should be big enough, and open enough, to allow an "AI community" to form, even thrive.
Too many people in my replies don't seem to agree with that.
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@scottjenson I’m not interested in following any “AI people”. That doesn’t make it an echo chamber. We don’t need equal amounts of people who love puppies and want to kill puppies, not everything needs to be equally represented.
@Gargron @scottjenson Hot take : "gen A.I. is a fascist tool" /me 2026 #fascism #antifa #TaxTheRich #SaveThePlanet #noai #AI
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@scottjenson I’m not interested in following any “AI people”. That doesn’t make it an echo chamber. We don’t need equal amounts of people who love puppies and want to kill puppies, not everything needs to be equally represented.
AI people are not people
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@FeloniousPunk @scottjenson @Gargron Adopting an attitude of persecution as primarily white dude tech bros akin to the abusive experience of Black Twitter on Fedi is...a choice.
Crying that no one wants to play with you because the entire industry is abusive AF and literally nobody in the wider fediverse wants it forced on us is HILARIOUS.
Go away, weirdo.
@TheJen @FeloniousPunk @scottjenson @Gargron
The entire AI industry is built on:
*stolen art
*stolen literature (also a form of art)
*trying to get the benefits of labor without any obligation to labor.
*wallstreet techbro bullshit.The Fediverse is INHERENTLY a space started by decentralized tech people, queer people, trans people, BIPOC people, disabled people - it has a lot, a LOT of marginalized people, a lot of artists, a lot of 'hey I am gay and marginalized in like 20 different ways' people.
Asking why we don't like AI is like going into the NAACP and asking why they don't welcome the clan. Or going into an Autism Self Advocacy Network meeting and asking why they don't like Autism Speaks. Or going to a 'No Kings' rally with a trump hat on.
THE AI BROS ARE THE ENEMY. They are indifferent to the suffering they cause at best and benefit from it at worst.
There can literally be no room for pop culture tolerance of AI anything. Give it an inch and it will literally destroy the world. (literally: AI has completely reversed all of our progress on global warming and because of what its done to the trendlines, we are on progress towards a hothouse earth at current.)
Probably not the response you wanted, but hey, AI isn't what we wanted, either.
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@cratermoon @evan should everyone who joins mastodon be forced to pass that gauntlet? Who are the gate keepers? There shouldn't be a purity test. Catch the scammers of course, but passing judgement on the quality of someone's thoughts is very dubious
@scottjenson @cratermoon
Asking who benefits, who's harmed, what recourse do the harmed have isn't a purity test it's a valid question to ask someone pushing to colonize spaces that haven't embraced a billion dollar propaganda project.Also, you didn't answer the question.
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@Mabande @corbden @isagalaev @scottjenson @devlord @carnage4life
Welp, carnage has taken their personal experience in a network where everybody curates their own experience, found it wanting, and instead of doing what it takes to get what you want, has decided to whine about it. And now we are talking about it.
Like, go follow people and hashtags you goof, get a grip
@TeflonTrout @Mabande @corbden @isagalaev @scottjenson @devlord. I’m not whining or complaining about engagement on Mastodon, I’m sharing the difference in what various social media communities care about in my personal experience.
Mastodon is full of anti-AI techies and BlueSky is full of anti-Trump leftists & liberals is essentially the observation.
Funny enough, I don’t even think most people on Mastodon would disagree so seeing rude responses like this is just weird.
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@scottjenson @Gargron There is nothing, absolutely nothing, stopping anyone from creating and cultivating an AI community on Mastodon. Start a server. Knock yourself out.
But expecting to *farm acceptance* from a group of people, one which most members vastly dislike AI, is quite the hubris.
But sure, the community at large is the problem.
Clean up your kitchen and maybe folks will join you for a meal.
@FeloniousPunk @scottjenson@social.coop @Gargron Scott's cognitive dissonance is on display. A photo at a "No Kings" rally while demanding we all kowtow to the same people creating that whole situation via donations and technology
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As this conversation is spiraling a bit I want to make a few things clear:
1. I'd like Mastodon to be MORE inclusive and bring in more voices
2. Some people don't seem to want that
3. This is core problem to solve: How do we let more in, but not "pollute" your feed?
4. The solution is NOT "gatekeeping", revelling in the fact that AI journalists aren't welcome
5. This is the same reason we lost "Black Twitter" when it came over in 2022Yes, a lot of you don't want AI posts in your feed (or pick any other topic) but the solution isn't to keep "AI People" from joining Mastodon, any more than it is keeping marginalized communities off of Mastodon.
@scottjenson What the heck is "AI journalists" or "AI people" to begin with?
