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CIRCLE WITH A DOT

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  3. Unlike my floppy drive box, only a single goat has pissed on my PCjr box

Unlike my floppy drive box, only a single goat has pissed on my PCjr box

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retrocomputingvcf
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  • gloriouscow@oldbytes.spaceG gloriouscow@oldbytes.space

    I joked about them being $20 but I see a listing for one for $90. The entire boxed PCjr I got was $150, for comparison.

    gloriouscow@oldbytes.spaceG This user is from outside of this forum
    gloriouscow@oldbytes.spaceG This user is from outside of this forum
    gloriouscow@oldbytes.space
    wrote last edited by
    #48

    If you're not familiar with the whole Computer Reset saga, check out LGR's videos:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rvM82T3C2Ik
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K-ZZkZk9QRk

    Basically, a large warehouse full of 80's vintage hardware was discovered after the owner passed away and the family reached out for help.

    gloriouscow@oldbytes.spaceG 1 Reply Last reply
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    • gloriouscow@oldbytes.spaceG gloriouscow@oldbytes.space

      If you're not familiar with the whole Computer Reset saga, check out LGR's videos:

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rvM82T3C2Ik
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K-ZZkZk9QRk

      Basically, a large warehouse full of 80's vintage hardware was discovered after the owner passed away and the family reached out for help.

      gloriouscow@oldbytes.spaceG This user is from outside of this forum
      gloriouscow@oldbytes.spaceG This user is from outside of this forum
      gloriouscow@oldbytes.space
      wrote last edited by
      #49

      Among the items were hundreds of PCjr related items, most still new in sealed boxes. These items have since flooded the secondary market.

      gloriouscow@oldbytes.spaceG 1 Reply Last reply
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      • gloriouscow@oldbytes.spaceG gloriouscow@oldbytes.space

        Among the items were hundreds of PCjr related items, most still new in sealed boxes. These items have since flooded the secondary market.

        gloriouscow@oldbytes.spaceG This user is from outside of this forum
        gloriouscow@oldbytes.spaceG This user is from outside of this forum
        gloriouscow@oldbytes.space
        wrote last edited by
        #50

        Due to the scale of the clean-out, not everyone who arrived at the warehouse had purely charitable motives, and so you'll find people hawking NIB PCjr joysticks for way more than they should go for, because they walked out of the warehouse after paying pennies on the dollar for them.

        (Note: LGR is not at fault in any way, and most of the people that showed up to help I'm sure had good intentions)

        gloriouscow@oldbytes.spaceG 1 Reply Last reply
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        • gloriouscow@oldbytes.spaceG gloriouscow@oldbytes.space

          Due to the scale of the clean-out, not everyone who arrived at the warehouse had purely charitable motives, and so you'll find people hawking NIB PCjr joysticks for way more than they should go for, because they walked out of the warehouse after paying pennies on the dollar for them.

          (Note: LGR is not at fault in any way, and most of the people that showed up to help I'm sure had good intentions)

          gloriouscow@oldbytes.spaceG This user is from outside of this forum
          gloriouscow@oldbytes.spaceG This user is from outside of this forum
          gloriouscow@oldbytes.space
          wrote last edited by
          #51

          If you're selling NIB PCjr CGA cables for $90 however, you need to be proverbially kicked in your D port.

          1 Reply Last reply
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          • gloriouscow@oldbytes.spaceG gloriouscow@oldbytes.space

            @petrillic All the PCjr IO is two big berg strips with some plastic spacers that key the connections one way. Remeber they were trying to make it as cheap as possible to manufacture.

            goosey@mastodon.sdf.orgG This user is from outside of this forum
            goosey@mastodon.sdf.orgG This user is from outside of this forum
            goosey@mastodon.sdf.org
            wrote last edited by
            #52

            @gloriouscow

            Secret shame: back in the 80's I bought the PCjr thermal printer because it was cheap and I thought I could interface it to my Tandy CoCo3. Never could get it to work, eventually trashed the printer.

            I've thought about getting another one and trying again (I have much better understanding of the CoCo's quirks) but those printers did not age well.

            But yes. That connector. Grr.😠

            1 Reply Last reply
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            • gloriouscow@oldbytes.spaceG gloriouscow@oldbytes.space

              The worst part of packing up to leave your hotel room is always putting your PCjr back together

              gloriouscow@oldbytes.spaceG This user is from outside of this forum
              gloriouscow@oldbytes.spaceG This user is from outside of this forum
              gloriouscow@oldbytes.space
              wrote last edited by
              #53

              Now that I'm home I can take my PCjr's pants off and show you even more.

              This is the PCjr sidecar connector. Lacking ISA slots, you attached modules called Sidecars to the side of your peanut after removing a plastic cover.

              Each sidecar gave you a new sidecar connector on the opposite side, allowing you to make a ridiculously wide PCjr by adding lots of Sidecars.

              Link Preview Image
              gloriouscow@oldbytes.spaceG 1 Reply Last reply
              0
              • gloriouscow@oldbytes.spaceG gloriouscow@oldbytes.space

                Now that I'm home I can take my PCjr's pants off and show you even more.

                This is the PCjr sidecar connector. Lacking ISA slots, you attached modules called Sidecars to the side of your peanut after removing a plastic cover.

                Each sidecar gave you a new sidecar connector on the opposite side, allowing you to make a ridiculously wide PCjr by adding lots of Sidecars.

                Link Preview Image
                gloriouscow@oldbytes.spaceG This user is from outside of this forum
                gloriouscow@oldbytes.spaceG This user is from outside of this forum
                gloriouscow@oldbytes.space
                wrote last edited by
                #54

                Eventually you might stress out the PCjr's tiny little power supply by adding too many sidecars!

                What to do?

                Why, add a power attachment sidecar, to inject more juice into the middle of your sloppy sidecar sandwich!

                gloriouscow@oldbytes.spaceG 1 Reply Last reply
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                • gloriouscow@oldbytes.spaceG gloriouscow@oldbytes.space

                  Eventually you might stress out the PCjr's tiny little power supply by adding too many sidecars!

                  What to do?

                  Why, add a power attachment sidecar, to inject more juice into the middle of your sloppy sidecar sandwich!

                  gloriouscow@oldbytes.spaceG This user is from outside of this forum
                  gloriouscow@oldbytes.spaceG This user is from outside of this forum
                  gloriouscow@oldbytes.space
                  wrote last edited by
                  #55

                  Here are some of the sidecars available:

                  Cluster Adapter - this was a pre-ethernet networking standard that could connect up to 64 computers on a coaxial cable.

                  Parallel Port - you want to print? Some printers were serial, but parallel printers became somewhat ubiquitous over time.

                  Speech Attachment - you remember Dr Sbaitso, that creepy voice thing that came with your Soundblaster drivers? Did you love that? Well, do I have the sidecar for you. If you can afford it.

                  Memory Sidecars - several kinds of these were available - IBM had some, but companies like Racore and even Microsoft made them. Usually the expansion RAM was faster than the onboard PCjr RAM, so these were pretty essential upgrades.

                  petrillic@hachyderm.ioP aaronsgiles@corteximplant.comA gloriouscow@oldbytes.spaceG 3 Replies Last reply
                  0
                  • gloriouscow@oldbytes.spaceG gloriouscow@oldbytes.space

                    Here are some of the sidecars available:

                    Cluster Adapter - this was a pre-ethernet networking standard that could connect up to 64 computers on a coaxial cable.

                    Parallel Port - you want to print? Some printers were serial, but parallel printers became somewhat ubiquitous over time.

                    Speech Attachment - you remember Dr Sbaitso, that creepy voice thing that came with your Soundblaster drivers? Did you love that? Well, do I have the sidecar for you. If you can afford it.

                    Memory Sidecars - several kinds of these were available - IBM had some, but companies like Racore and even Microsoft made them. Usually the expansion RAM was faster than the onboard PCjr RAM, so these were pretty essential upgrades.

                    petrillic@hachyderm.ioP This user is from outside of this forum
                    petrillic@hachyderm.ioP This user is from outside of this forum
                    petrillic@hachyderm.io
                    wrote last edited by
                    #56

                    @gloriouscow wait... cluster adapter?

                    gloriouscow@oldbytes.spaceG 1 Reply Last reply
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                    • gloriouscow@oldbytes.spaceG gloriouscow@oldbytes.space

                      Here are some of the sidecars available:

                      Cluster Adapter - this was a pre-ethernet networking standard that could connect up to 64 computers on a coaxial cable.

                      Parallel Port - you want to print? Some printers were serial, but parallel printers became somewhat ubiquitous over time.

                      Speech Attachment - you remember Dr Sbaitso, that creepy voice thing that came with your Soundblaster drivers? Did you love that? Well, do I have the sidecar for you. If you can afford it.

                      Memory Sidecars - several kinds of these were available - IBM had some, but companies like Racore and even Microsoft made them. Usually the expansion RAM was faster than the onboard PCjr RAM, so these were pretty essential upgrades.

                      aaronsgiles@corteximplant.comA This user is from outside of this forum
                      aaronsgiles@corteximplant.comA This user is from outside of this forum
                      aaronsgiles@corteximplant.com
                      wrote last edited by
                      #57

                      @gloriouscow The key with memory sidecars wasn't that the RAM itself was fast, it was the fact that the RAM wasn't shared with the video adapter, so it could run at equivalent speed to a normal XT.

                      Once I got my memory sidecar, I immediately wrote a TSR that ate up all the shared video RAM so that everything else I ran went at full speed. Made a huge difference!

                      gloriouscow@oldbytes.spaceG 1 Reply Last reply
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                      • petrillic@hachyderm.ioP petrillic@hachyderm.io

                        @gloriouscow wait... cluster adapter?

                        gloriouscow@oldbytes.spaceG This user is from outside of this forum
                        gloriouscow@oldbytes.spaceG This user is from outside of this forum
                        gloriouscow@oldbytes.space
                        wrote last edited by
                        #58

                        @petrillic Cluster Adapter!

                        Link Preview Image
                        1 Reply Last reply
                        0
                        • aaronsgiles@corteximplant.comA aaronsgiles@corteximplant.com

                          @gloriouscow The key with memory sidecars wasn't that the RAM itself was fast, it was the fact that the RAM wasn't shared with the video adapter, so it could run at equivalent speed to a normal XT.

                          Once I got my memory sidecar, I immediately wrote a TSR that ate up all the shared video RAM so that everything else I ran went at full speed. Made a huge difference!

                          gloriouscow@oldbytes.spaceG This user is from outside of this forum
                          gloriouscow@oldbytes.spaceG This user is from outside of this forum
                          gloriouscow@oldbytes.space
                          wrote last edited by
                          #59

                          @aaronsgiles I will eventually delve into the horrors of PCjr wait states.

                          Today you can use JRCONFIG.SYS to relocate MS-DOS above the 128K boundary, but it is a bit odd as your system basically boots twice.

                          1 Reply Last reply
                          0
                          • gloriouscow@oldbytes.spaceG gloriouscow@oldbytes.space

                            Here are some of the sidecars available:

                            Cluster Adapter - this was a pre-ethernet networking standard that could connect up to 64 computers on a coaxial cable.

                            Parallel Port - you want to print? Some printers were serial, but parallel printers became somewhat ubiquitous over time.

                            Speech Attachment - you remember Dr Sbaitso, that creepy voice thing that came with your Soundblaster drivers? Did you love that? Well, do I have the sidecar for you. If you can afford it.

                            Memory Sidecars - several kinds of these were available - IBM had some, but companies like Racore and even Microsoft made them. Usually the expansion RAM was faster than the onboard PCjr RAM, so these were pretty essential upgrades.

                            gloriouscow@oldbytes.spaceG This user is from outside of this forum
                            gloriouscow@oldbytes.spaceG This user is from outside of this forum
                            gloriouscow@oldbytes.space
                            wrote last edited by
                            #60

                            Since @aaronsgiles brought it up, let's talk about the PCjr's video system.

                            The VGA.

                            No, not that VGA.

                            gloriouscow@oldbytes.spaceG 1 Reply Last reply
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                            • gloriouscow@oldbytes.spaceG gloriouscow@oldbytes.space

                              Since @aaronsgiles brought it up, let's talk about the PCjr's video system.

                              The VGA.

                              No, not that VGA.

                              gloriouscow@oldbytes.spaceG This user is from outside of this forum
                              gloriouscow@oldbytes.spaceG This user is from outside of this forum
                              gloriouscow@oldbytes.space
                              wrote last edited by
                              #61

                              The PCjr has a Video Gate Array. You're thinking about the later 256 color standard, the Video Graphics Array.

                              Easy mistake to make. Tandy's version of this would get unofficially named "TGA", something you might have seen when selecting your graphics options in that spiffy new DOS game you just bought.

                              In any case, the PCjr has no dedicated video memory, the system has shared memory. Just like your fancy new MacBook! Okay nothing at all like that, actually, because if you hadn't guessed by now, it's terrible.

                              gloriouscow@oldbytes.spaceG techtangents@dialup.spaceT 2 Replies Last reply
                              0
                              • gloriouscow@oldbytes.spaceG gloriouscow@oldbytes.space

                                The PCjr has a Video Gate Array. You're thinking about the later 256 color standard, the Video Graphics Array.

                                Easy mistake to make. Tandy's version of this would get unofficially named "TGA", something you might have seen when selecting your graphics options in that spiffy new DOS game you just bought.

                                In any case, the PCjr has no dedicated video memory, the system has shared memory. Just like your fancy new MacBook! Okay nothing at all like that, actually, because if you hadn't guessed by now, it's terrible.

                                gloriouscow@oldbytes.spaceG This user is from outside of this forum
                                gloriouscow@oldbytes.spaceG This user is from outside of this forum
                                gloriouscow@oldbytes.space
                                wrote last edited by
                                #62

                                The IBM PC uses the 8253 timer and 8237 DMA controller to refresh the system's DRAM. The D in DRAM stands for Dynamic and dynamic means if we do not refresh the RAM by accessing it periodically the contents go bye-byte.

                                Doing this saved IBM a decent amount of money on making dedicated refresh circuitry, at the cost of about 5-6% of your CPU performance.

                                petrillic@hachyderm.ioP gloriouscow@oldbytes.spaceG C 3 Replies Last reply
                                0
                                • gloriouscow@oldbytes.spaceG gloriouscow@oldbytes.space

                                  The IBM PC uses the 8253 timer and 8237 DMA controller to refresh the system's DRAM. The D in DRAM stands for Dynamic and dynamic means if we do not refresh the RAM by accessing it periodically the contents go bye-byte.

                                  Doing this saved IBM a decent amount of money on making dedicated refresh circuitry, at the cost of about 5-6% of your CPU performance.

                                  petrillic@hachyderm.ioP This user is from outside of this forum
                                  petrillic@hachyderm.ioP This user is from outside of this forum
                                  petrillic@hachyderm.io
                                  wrote last edited by
                                  #63

                                  @gloriouscow we should never have strayed from core memory.

                                  1 Reply Last reply
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                                  • gloriouscow@oldbytes.spaceG gloriouscow@oldbytes.space

                                    The IBM PC uses the 8253 timer and 8237 DMA controller to refresh the system's DRAM. The D in DRAM stands for Dynamic and dynamic means if we do not refresh the RAM by accessing it periodically the contents go bye-byte.

                                    Doing this saved IBM a decent amount of money on making dedicated refresh circuitry, at the cost of about 5-6% of your CPU performance.

                                    gloriouscow@oldbytes.spaceG This user is from outside of this forum
                                    gloriouscow@oldbytes.spaceG This user is from outside of this forum
                                    gloriouscow@oldbytes.space
                                    wrote last edited by
                                    #64

                                    But the PCjr has no DMA controller. Ruh roh! How are we going to refresh the DRAM??

                                    Easy peasy. We just make the system RAM also the video RAM. As the PCjr's VGA reads video memory to scan out to the display, it hits all the RAS and CAS lines and we get our DRAM refreshed! Yay!

                                    Except our CPU can't access RAM while it is doing this! Boo!

                                    gloriouscow@oldbytes.spaceG 1 Reply Last reply
                                    0
                                    • gloriouscow@oldbytes.spaceG gloriouscow@oldbytes.space

                                      But the PCjr has no DMA controller. Ruh roh! How are we going to refresh the DRAM??

                                      Easy peasy. We just make the system RAM also the video RAM. As the PCjr's VGA reads video memory to scan out to the display, it hits all the RAS and CAS lines and we get our DRAM refreshed! Yay!

                                      Except our CPU can't access RAM while it is doing this! Boo!

                                      gloriouscow@oldbytes.spaceG This user is from outside of this forum
                                      gloriouscow@oldbytes.spaceG This user is from outside of this forum
                                      gloriouscow@oldbytes.space
                                      wrote last edited by
                                      #65

                                      IBM tells us the CPU gets one cycle every 1.1 microseconds, which is practically an eon in computer time. A CPU cycle at 4.77MHz is around 200ns, for comparison.

                                      IBM gives some handwavy math to explain how you might see 2 wait states as a result. In unlucky code sequences you could see 3-5.

                                      This made your peanut slow 😞

                                      Link Preview Image
                                      gloriouscow@oldbytes.spaceG 1 Reply Last reply
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                                      • gloriouscow@oldbytes.spaceG gloriouscow@oldbytes.space

                                        The PCjr has a Video Gate Array. You're thinking about the later 256 color standard, the Video Graphics Array.

                                        Easy mistake to make. Tandy's version of this would get unofficially named "TGA", something you might have seen when selecting your graphics options in that spiffy new DOS game you just bought.

                                        In any case, the PCjr has no dedicated video memory, the system has shared memory. Just like your fancy new MacBook! Okay nothing at all like that, actually, because if you hadn't guessed by now, it's terrible.

                                        techtangents@dialup.spaceT This user is from outside of this forum
                                        techtangents@dialup.spaceT This user is from outside of this forum
                                        techtangents@dialup.space
                                        wrote last edited by
                                        #66

                                        @gloriouscow
                                        It's a good thing that a "Tandy" "Gate Array" doesn't have any other meanings either, nope none at all...

                                        gloriouscow@oldbytes.spaceG 1 Reply Last reply
                                        0
                                        • gloriouscow@oldbytes.spaceG gloriouscow@oldbytes.space

                                          IBM tells us the CPU gets one cycle every 1.1 microseconds, which is practically an eon in computer time. A CPU cycle at 4.77MHz is around 200ns, for comparison.

                                          IBM gives some handwavy math to explain how you might see 2 wait states as a result. In unlucky code sequences you could see 3-5.

                                          This made your peanut slow 😞

                                          Link Preview Image
                                          gloriouscow@oldbytes.spaceG This user is from outside of this forum
                                          gloriouscow@oldbytes.spaceG This user is from outside of this forum
                                          gloriouscow@oldbytes.space
                                          wrote last edited by
                                          #67

                                          Manufacturers of RAM expansion cards had to provide refresh circuitry for the RAM sitting on their expansion cards, because your PCjr's VGA did not access it.

                                          This wasn't something your IBM PC memory expansion card needed to worry about, because the PC will refresh any extra memory your put in (set your jumpers properly!)

                                          But it also means that code running out of a PCjr RAM expansion sidecar could, in theory, run even faster than on its big older brother. Yay, peanut!

                                          gloriouscow@oldbytes.spaceG 1 Reply Last reply
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