Replying to Uta Frith's views, one by one.
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@KatyElphinstone @adelinej These "theory of mind" types seem to be fighting a long bitter retreat. But they seem to be fighting it in the right wing press, as the scientific world has moved on.
@SecondUniverse @KatyElphinstone @adelinej Why do these highly-educated academics always get Theory of Mind wrong? ToM is not the ability to read minds. It is the awareness that other individuals have their own thoughts and perceptions that will be different from your own, not the ability to know what those are.
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@SecondUniverse @KatyElphinstone @adelinej Why do these highly-educated academics always get Theory of Mind wrong? ToM is not the ability to read minds. It is the awareness that other individuals have their own thoughts and perceptions that will be different from your own, not the ability to know what those are.
@joshsusser @KatyElphinstone @adelinej What they actually mean is the the autistic person does not have a mind. Sure they can think but they lack the essential "puzzle piece" that would make them human.
The Theory of Mind researcher doesn't have a theory of mind about their autistic research subjects.
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Replying to Uta Frith's views, one by one.
With thanks to all the members of the autistic community who've informed me & inspired me to write this thread.
For those lucky not to know about her article in The Times, and various other related statements, links at the end.
CW: it's upsetting
A thread 🧵
#UtaFrith #Research #Autism #Autistic #ActuallyAutistic #Neurodivergent
@KatyElphinstone Prof. Uta is a disease
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Her view: We can't have this many autistic people because it’ll overload the system.
Reply: This makes it plain that it's the people who serve the system, and not the other way around. Maybe society should be structured so that all people's needs are met, instead?
️@KatyElphinstone THIS.
Thank you
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Her view: We can't have this many autistic people because it’ll overload the system.
Reply: This makes it plain that it's the people who serve the system, and not the other way around. Maybe society should be structured so that all people's needs are met, instead?
️@KatyElphinstone If the population changes then the systems built to serve it must change too.
You don't change people to suit systems, you change systems to serve people. Always. Unconditionally.
How are so many people just absolutely wrong?
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@KatyElphinstone I never get over how people can shock me - which I guess says something good about me
️@CuriousMagpie @KatyElphinstone Just happened to me. I couldn’t be bothered to read Uta Frith’s article but just saw this.
Disgusted. This world is really upside down.
(For a rather different understanding see my page <https://gizmonaut.net/autism-documents/>)
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Thank you for this. I was FURIOUS when I read her article. She clearly thinks that the lived experience is purely anecdotal.
I was only diagnosed 2 months ago and this sort of article will only get in the way when I tell certain family members.
Oh no! And yes, that's exactly my worry. That many people will now be invalidated by those close to them, having read the views of 'the expert' 🤨
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@joshsusser @KatyElphinstone @adelinej What they actually mean is the the autistic person does not have a mind. Sure they can think but they lack the essential "puzzle piece" that would make them human.
The Theory of Mind researcher doesn't have a theory of mind about their autistic research subjects.
Good point. The autistic subject must be dehumanized at all costs.
Ironic. -
@KatyElphinstone If the population changes then the systems built to serve it must change too.
You don't change people to suit systems, you change systems to serve people. Always. Unconditionally.
How are so many people just absolutely wrong?
Exactly
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Good point. The autistic subject must be dehumanized at all costs.
Ironic.@KatyElphinstone @SecondUniverse @adelinej so if they cannot recognize autistics as having our own minds, they are bad at Theory of Mind. definitely ironic.
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@CuriousMagpie @KatyElphinstone Just happened to me. I couldn’t be bothered to read Uta Frith’s article but just saw this.
Disgusted. This world is really upside down.
(For a rather different understanding see my page <https://gizmonaut.net/autism-documents/>)
Omg
Interesting as I contacted one of the major funding organisations for autism research, to try to get funding for my own study.
(If I didn't laugh I would cry)I really just thought, why not, since they're based at Edinburgh University which is where I'm doing my PhD.
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Omg
Interesting as I contacted one of the major funding organisations for autism research, to try to get funding for my own study.
(If I didn't laugh I would cry)I really just thought, why not, since they're based at Edinburgh University which is where I'm doing my PhD.
I had just seen in the papers that they had received another 87 million on top of the 145 million pounds they already receive annually.
They answered saying they didn't think my research was relevant.
On their site, it say they fund the search for 'treatments' and 'biomarkers'.
I refrained from answering them 'good luck w that one' - but I did write a reply email saying I thought they were barking up the wrong tree (to paraphrase). For my file. They never answered.
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@KatyElphinstone @SecondUniverse @adelinej so if they cannot recognize autistics as having our own minds, they are bad at Theory of Mind. definitely ironic.
Right?
Is it like the part where she says it's ridiculous to take lived experience as any basis for 'serious' research.
Interesting that so much of the behavioral autism research investigating all of our deficits and impairments is based on the lived experience of non-autistics, of us. Yet I never heard her speak out against that
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@CuriousMagpie @KatyElphinstone Just happened to me. I couldn’t be bothered to read Uta Frith’s article but just saw this.
Disgusted. This world is really upside down.
(For a rather different understanding see my page <https://gizmonaut.net/autism-documents/>)
I've just had a look at the link you sent and also at your own page.
It makes me feel a bit sick to read about this stuff, for some reason. But I want to know.
Just to say I think your work is incredible. Very important indeed. And it must be difficult to do it - not just from the intellectual standpoint, but emotionally too.
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I had just seen in the papers that they had received another 87 million on top of the 145 million pounds they already receive annually.
They answered saying they didn't think my research was relevant.
On their site, it say they fund the search for 'treatments' and 'biomarkers'.
I refrained from answering them 'good luck w that one' - but I did write a reply email saying I thought they were barking up the wrong tree (to paraphrase). For my file. They never answered.
@KatyElphinstone @CuriousMagpie Best wishes for you to get the funding you’re looking for.
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@KatyElphinstone @CuriousMagpie Best wishes for you to get the funding you’re looking for.
Ah thanks. I don't really need it, so it's alright, I'm used to not being paid for a lot of my work, having been a parent for 17 years
I just about get by and I'm lucky with my situation. I feel really privileged to be able to do things I'm passionate about.
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@KatyElphinstone regarding pain: there's been times where denying it has been tried. Case in point: babies.
"As recently as the 1980s it was common practice for babies to be given neuromuscular blocks but no pain relief medication during surgery."
Source: https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2015/04/150421084812.htm
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Her view: Autism in women has gone too far.
Reply: Interesting. Has freedom in women gone too far, too?
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Her view: We must categorise autism into smaller subgroups.
Reply: Interesting also - a bit like how Hans Asperger did in Nazi Germany? I think, in this case, the purpose is to exclude a lot of people from the category "autism" and to divide the autistic community.
️@KatyElphinstone what's her argument for "We must categorise autism into smaller subgroups."? Why is it necessary, what would we gain?
I do agree that within the spectrum there are obvious differences that might be used for forming groups, for example to address the different needs for support adequately. Maybe there's even different causes, that might be treated differently, but the science is still not far enough for that to be a valid reason
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@KatyElphinstone regarding pain: there's been times where denying it has been tried. Case in point: babies.
"As recently as the 1980s it was common practice for babies to be given neuromuscular blocks but no pain relief medication during surgery."
Source: https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2015/04/150421084812.htm
@lizzard see also: "PoC don't feel pain as strongly as white folks", "childbirth isn't painful if you're doing it right
", "your period can't be THIS painful"(I am also somewhat sceptical regarding masking as a concept, but of course you can study internal states scientifically!)
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@KatyElphinstone regarding pain: there's been times where denying it has been tried. Case in point: babies.
"As recently as the 1980s it was common practice for babies to be given neuromuscular blocks but no pain relief medication during surgery."
Source: https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2015/04/150421084812.htm
Yes, all the assumptions... Awful to think on. No wonder trauma is so common.
