I had a discussion lately regarding smartphones with a buddy.
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@meuwese @hadronized @Gina no, it's the OS. Graphene uses sandboxed Google Play Services, pushes all the communication through their proxy and doesn't have full support for everything yet. The combination of these three factors make apps that depend on Google Play Services to work and behave unpredictably and sometimes just simply break.
@leniwcowaty @hadronized @Gina right, but using Google Play services to run a Google navigation tool on Graphene... what's the advantage of that? I understand that the OS makes it impossible to do this, but I don't understand why you'd want to? If you're using Google apps anyway, why not stay on Android?
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I had a discussion lately regarding smartphones with a buddy. He has a Pine phone IIRC, and I have an iPhone. I’m a huge FOSS advocate, and I have to live with that cognitive dissonance of using a highly proprietary phone.
However, when I look at FOSS phones, I feel that I would lose a lot of services and features. Anyone has leads / learning material? @Gina maybe?
@hadronized @Gina in Denmark you struggle to exist without either iPhone or some supported android device.
Citizen digital signing service is an app (physical token CAN be obtained).
Public transport is also requiring* an app (physical card CAN be bought).
Our pay-from-mobile stopped working on liberated Android due to googles latest shenanigans.
Digital post, doesn’t work either. Can be accessed from a web browser.It is highly inconvenient to use software NOT made by either Apple or Google.
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I had a discussion lately regarding smartphones with a buddy. He has a Pine phone IIRC, and I have an iPhone. I’m a huge FOSS advocate, and I have to live with that cognitive dissonance of using a highly proprietary phone.
However, when I look at FOSS phones, I feel that I would lose a lot of services and features. Anyone has leads / learning material? @Gina maybe?
@hadronized @Gina at the moment there is only one category of apps that I cannot replace; Banking apps.
In order to tackle that I use two phones.
One proprietary phone with the banking apps - that stays securely at home. This actually feels more like a feature rather than an inconvenience.
One non bigtech OS phone as the daily driver.
So far this seems to be the solutions that works for me.
But I am fully aware that this is not a real solution for most people. Or a solutions that scales.
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@hadronized @Gina in Denmark you struggle to exist without either iPhone or some supported android device.
Citizen digital signing service is an app (physical token CAN be obtained).
Public transport is also requiring* an app (physical card CAN be bought).
Our pay-from-mobile stopped working on liberated Android due to googles latest shenanigans.
Digital post, doesn’t work either. Can be accessed from a web browser.It is highly inconvenient to use software NOT made by either Apple or Google.
@hadronized @antaeus same in the Netherlands. I'll switch when I know for sure that services like DigiD, Berichtenbox and 3 different banking apps work on my phone.
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I had a discussion lately regarding smartphones with a buddy. He has a Pine phone IIRC, and I have an iPhone. I’m a huge FOSS advocate, and I have to live with that cognitive dissonance of using a highly proprietary phone.
However, when I look at FOSS phones, I feel that I would lose a lot of services and features. Anyone has leads / learning material? @Gina maybe?
@hadronized I’m in a similar situation and tried GrapheneOS on a Pixel in 2025. I wrote about my experience here: https://gabnotes.org/posts/i-tried-moving-to-grapheneos
I hope it can help you!
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@hadronized @antaeus same in the Netherlands. I'll switch when I know for sure that services like DigiD, Berichtenbox and 3 different banking apps work on my phone.
@hadronized @antaeus @Gina data point that can be handy for you: living in NL with a Fairphone 5 with e/OS. DigiD works, banking with 2 banking apps work, I read that they also got Revolut working semi recently but that needs validation.
Main issue is with the maps for me, Magic Earth, the default maps app, is a bit of a hit or miss, might take a few tries to get started, especially on low battery.
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@hadronized @antaeus @Gina data point that can be handy for you: living in NL with a Fairphone 5 with e/OS. DigiD works, banking with 2 banking apps work, I read that they also got Revolut working semi recently but that needs validation.
Main issue is with the maps for me, Magic Earth, the default maps app, is a bit of a hit or miss, might take a few tries to get started, especially on low battery.
@hadronized @antaeus @reshi maps is a big one for me too, I don't really function without it.
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@hadronized @antaeus @reshi maps is a big one for me too, I don't really function without it.
@hadronized @antaeus @Gina yeah, especially if you travel a lot. NS and 9292 cover NL decently, but whenever I go to a new place the experience is annoying compared to Google Maps.
On a brighter note, everything else is quite good! They even offer some cloud things based on nextcloud, but hooking up your own nextcloud instead is easy.
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@hadronized @avlap2 @Gina @GrapheneOS iirc Graphene currenly only runs on Pixels, although wider support is planned. Correct me if I'm wrong.
@iris @hadronized @avlap2 @Gina Pixels are currently the only devices meeting the security requirements for GrapheneOS where installing another OS is fully supported. There will be no support for any other currently available devices due to poor updates and missing hardware-based security features used by GrapheneOS. Broad device support is not a goal of the project but rather contrary to the aims of the project. We're working with a major OEM on their devices supporting it for 2027+ though.
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@iris @hadronized @avlap2 @Gina Pixels are currently the only devices meeting the security requirements for GrapheneOS where installing another OS is fully supported. There will be no support for any other currently available devices due to poor updates and missing hardware-based security features used by GrapheneOS. Broad device support is not a goal of the project but rather contrary to the aims of the project. We're working with a major OEM on their devices supporting it for 2027+ though.
@GrapheneOS @iris @hadronized @avlap2 @Gina it feels totally wrong that in order to escape google you have to buy a google device first… looking forward to 2027. Maybe if GrapheneOS would collaborate with Fairphone something might happen?
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@KingmaYpe @hadronized @Gina well, if your phone takes 5-10 minutes to lock the location and needs cellular reception or WiFi, because the OS doesn't support actual GPS hardware in your phone, this is not good. And I would argue issues like this can be a dealbreaker for someone who depends on GPS and navigation working flawlessly.
@leniwcowaty @KingmaYpe @hadronized @Gina Okay, so you get that 5-10 minute delay when you're also out of cellular range? That usually also becomes an issue on regular Google and Apple OS in my experience. I'm (reluctantly) using Android Auto in my car with a Pixel 9a running GrapheneOS and I definitely don't recognise your issue when having a cellular connection at least.
The only issue I have is finding a browser that reliably opens and maintains a link to the main banking/identification app to confirm a purchase or login in Sweden. Vanadium works maybe 60% of the time. I'm guessing the Google Play sandbox is somehow interrupting something there. But oh well... While there's no way to be entirely free of Play Store or iOS in today's society I can at least limit my reliance somewhat. Until EU starts demanding digital ID. Then we're completely stuck in this duopoly.
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