I had a discussion lately regarding smartphones with a buddy.
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I had a discussion lately regarding smartphones with a buddy. He has a Pine phone IIRC, and I have an iPhone. I’m a huge FOSS advocate, and I have to live with that cognitive dissonance of using a highly proprietary phone.
However, when I look at FOSS phones, I feel that I would lose a lot of services and features. Anyone has leads / learning material? @Gina maybe?
@hadronized @Gina having made the move away from iPhone a couple of times with jolla and Linux options and failed, the best choice that retains functionality is Murena eos
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@leniwcowaty @hadronized @Gina that's more about the app and the underlying data than the OS though, isn't it? I'm still on Android but have uninstalled Google Maps, which is indeed extremely difficult to replace!
@meuwese @hadronized @Gina no, it's the OS. Graphene uses sandboxed Google Play Services, pushes all the communication through their proxy and doesn't have full support for everything yet. The combination of these three factors make apps that depend on Google Play Services to work and behave unpredictably and sometimes just simply break.
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@hadronized @Gina I had the same dissonance, but ultimately decided it's "lesser evil". I tried GrapheneOS on my Pixel and... Well I would have to give up A LOT of convinience, features and just simply frictionless experience, for very little benefit. My phone is a tool. If I need navigation, I need it now, and can't wait for 5-10 minutes for the weird GOS proxy to catch the encrypted pseudo-gps data. All in all - yes, I don't like using stock Android, but alternatives are not "there" yet for me
@leniwcowaty @hadronized @Gina
Navigation can normally be planned. That includes downloading the parts of the map that one needs. Also, make sure to have an address of every destination.
It may not be as convenient as doing it at the last possible moment, but it's really easy.
Disclaimer: I've been doing this a lot with paper maps before there were cell phones.
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I had a discussion lately regarding smartphones with a buddy. He has a Pine phone IIRC, and I have an iPhone. I’m a huge FOSS advocate, and I have to live with that cognitive dissonance of using a highly proprietary phone.
However, when I look at FOSS phones, I feel that I would lose a lot of services and features. Anyone has leads / learning material? @Gina maybe?
@hadronized @Gina I'm on the lookout for one that can sandbox proprietary apps. I stumbled across one but forgot which, I'm sorry. My Samsung/Android phone is working fine for now and it's not due for an upgrade until that's no longer the case, but I've also considered getting a super cheap secondhand phone and testing out FOSS on it while I still have a functioning phone running stock Android. It lowers the stakes, I figure.
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@avlap2 @Gina @GrapheneOS does Pixel phones support that kind of OS switch?
@hadronized @avlap2 @Gina @GrapheneOS iirc Graphene currenly only runs on Pixels, although wider support is planned. Correct me if I'm wrong.
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@hadronized unfortunately I'm also still on a Samsung/Android device. But I'd love to switch to a Fairphone some day. I know that there's a bunch of mobile OS's as well, like @postmarketOS and @LineageOS . Will boost your post so others can weigh in.
@Gina @hadronized @postmarketOS @LineageOS
Chiming in as I recently switched my iPhone for a Fairphone 6 with /e/OS, after ~20yrs on apple devices. So far this has worked very well! I have a few things to sort out still, but no dealbreakers. Biggest issue so far has been #vipps, the defacto norwegian/nordic money transfer app. I am able to use it, but for some strange reason it needs to be deleted and reinstalled every week or so. A nuisance, hopefully a temporary one, not a real problem. For navigation I now use CoMaps and/or Organic Maps. I'm in the process of setting up Immich, as a replacement for iCloud photos. Feels great, and I'm discovering new cool stuff all the time. In a few years I'm hoping to be able to install a more "pure" linux OS on the phone, but for now the degoogled android feels like a big step in the right direction, at least for me.Henrik Sørlie (@hsorlie@vivaldi.net)
The last year I’ve been making a conscious effort to pivot away from proprietary/american tech, for a mix of reasons. I’m increasingly worried about #privacy, data collection, data sovereignity, that kind of things. Not wanting to have more or less my entire life stored on servers inside american privacy and data laws jurisdiction. Wanting to support #european tech. And, where possible, a preference for open source #foss #floss #libre software. I’ve been quite in the «apple fanboy» category for the last 20+ years, and deeply buried in the whole iCloud ecosystem. Partly because of Apple’s traditional stance on privacy, and the whole «if a service is free, you’re the product» thing. I used to look forward to #apple event keynotes like others do to football matches. The last handful of iterations of #macOS, #iOS, macs and iPhones has sparked steadily decreasing amounts of enthusiasm from me though. Anyway, the last year has seen me replace most iCloud services with @protonprivacy@mastodon.social , my macbook pro with a @tuxedocomputers@linuxrocks.online infinitybook pro running #linux, and my iPhone with a #Fairphone 6 running @murena@mastodon.social /e/OS. And a patchwork of other services and apps to replace what I used to have. Here's a summary, and some questions to others. 1/n
Vivaldi Social (social.vivaldi.net)
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@leniwcowaty @hadronized @Gina
Navigation can normally be planned. That includes downloading the parts of the map that one needs. Also, make sure to have an address of every destination.
It may not be as convenient as doing it at the last possible moment, but it's really easy.
Disclaimer: I've been doing this a lot with paper maps before there were cell phones.
@KingmaYpe @hadronized @Gina please stop with "back in my day" bs. Why do you drive a car? You can just as easly ride a horse. Or walk.
If I have a device capable of pinpointing my exact location in the span of miliseconds, why would I consider waiting 10 minutes for the same thing acceptable?
Riddle me this - you approach an unpredicted event - a roadblock, a divertion, anything. Can you plan for that ahead of time? I'd rather take out my phone and check the route. Not wait 10 minutes for it
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@KingmaYpe @hadronized @Gina please stop with "back in my day" bs. Why do you drive a car? You can just as easly ride a horse. Or walk.
If I have a device capable of pinpointing my exact location in the span of miliseconds, why would I consider waiting 10 minutes for the same thing acceptable?
Riddle me this - you approach an unpredicted event - a roadblock, a divertion, anything. Can you plan for that ahead of time? I'd rather take out my phone and check the route. Not wait 10 minutes for it
@leniwcowaty @hadronized @Gina
With a preloaded map on the phone it is a good idea to keep the GPS location working while moving about.
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@hadronized @Gina having made the move away from iPhone a couple of times with jolla and Linux options and failed, the best choice that retains functionality is Murena eos
@hadronized @Gina yes it's a compromise but it gets you off Apple with only minor connection to Google. Make sure you open a Curve account as your payment wallet
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@leniwcowaty @hadronized @Gina
With a preloaded map on the phone it is a good idea to keep the GPS location working while moving about.
@KingmaYpe @hadronized @Gina well, if your phone takes 5-10 minutes to lock the location and needs cellular reception or WiFi, because the OS doesn't support actual GPS hardware in your phone, this is not good. And I would argue issues like this can be a dealbreaker for someone who depends on GPS and navigation working flawlessly.
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@meuwese @hadronized @Gina no, it's the OS. Graphene uses sandboxed Google Play Services, pushes all the communication through their proxy and doesn't have full support for everything yet. The combination of these three factors make apps that depend on Google Play Services to work and behave unpredictably and sometimes just simply break.
@leniwcowaty @hadronized @Gina right, but using Google Play services to run a Google navigation tool on Graphene... what's the advantage of that? I understand that the OS makes it impossible to do this, but I don't understand why you'd want to? If you're using Google apps anyway, why not stay on Android?
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I had a discussion lately regarding smartphones with a buddy. He has a Pine phone IIRC, and I have an iPhone. I’m a huge FOSS advocate, and I have to live with that cognitive dissonance of using a highly proprietary phone.
However, when I look at FOSS phones, I feel that I would lose a lot of services and features. Anyone has leads / learning material? @Gina maybe?
@hadronized @Gina in Denmark you struggle to exist without either iPhone or some supported android device.
Citizen digital signing service is an app (physical token CAN be obtained).
Public transport is also requiring* an app (physical card CAN be bought).
Our pay-from-mobile stopped working on liberated Android due to googles latest shenanigans.
Digital post, doesn’t work either. Can be accessed from a web browser.It is highly inconvenient to use software NOT made by either Apple or Google.
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I had a discussion lately regarding smartphones with a buddy. He has a Pine phone IIRC, and I have an iPhone. I’m a huge FOSS advocate, and I have to live with that cognitive dissonance of using a highly proprietary phone.
However, when I look at FOSS phones, I feel that I would lose a lot of services and features. Anyone has leads / learning material? @Gina maybe?
@hadronized @Gina at the moment there is only one category of apps that I cannot replace; Banking apps.
In order to tackle that I use two phones.
One proprietary phone with the banking apps - that stays securely at home. This actually feels more like a feature rather than an inconvenience.
One non bigtech OS phone as the daily driver.
So far this seems to be the solutions that works for me.
But I am fully aware that this is not a real solution for most people. Or a solutions that scales.
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@hadronized @Gina in Denmark you struggle to exist without either iPhone or some supported android device.
Citizen digital signing service is an app (physical token CAN be obtained).
Public transport is also requiring* an app (physical card CAN be bought).
Our pay-from-mobile stopped working on liberated Android due to googles latest shenanigans.
Digital post, doesn’t work either. Can be accessed from a web browser.It is highly inconvenient to use software NOT made by either Apple or Google.
@hadronized @antaeus same in the Netherlands. I'll switch when I know for sure that services like DigiD, Berichtenbox and 3 different banking apps work on my phone.
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I had a discussion lately regarding smartphones with a buddy. He has a Pine phone IIRC, and I have an iPhone. I’m a huge FOSS advocate, and I have to live with that cognitive dissonance of using a highly proprietary phone.
However, when I look at FOSS phones, I feel that I would lose a lot of services and features. Anyone has leads / learning material? @Gina maybe?
@hadronized I’m in a similar situation and tried GrapheneOS on a Pixel in 2025. I wrote about my experience here: https://gabnotes.org/posts/i-tried-moving-to-grapheneos
I hope it can help you!
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@hadronized @antaeus same in the Netherlands. I'll switch when I know for sure that services like DigiD, Berichtenbox and 3 different banking apps work on my phone.
@hadronized @antaeus @Gina data point that can be handy for you: living in NL with a Fairphone 5 with e/OS. DigiD works, banking with 2 banking apps work, I read that they also got Revolut working semi recently but that needs validation.
Main issue is with the maps for me, Magic Earth, the default maps app, is a bit of a hit or miss, might take a few tries to get started, especially on low battery.
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@hadronized @antaeus @Gina data point that can be handy for you: living in NL with a Fairphone 5 with e/OS. DigiD works, banking with 2 banking apps work, I read that they also got Revolut working semi recently but that needs validation.
Main issue is with the maps for me, Magic Earth, the default maps app, is a bit of a hit or miss, might take a few tries to get started, especially on low battery.
@hadronized @antaeus @reshi maps is a big one for me too, I don't really function without it.
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@hadronized @antaeus @reshi maps is a big one for me too, I don't really function without it.
@hadronized @antaeus @Gina yeah, especially if you travel a lot. NS and 9292 cover NL decently, but whenever I go to a new place the experience is annoying compared to Google Maps.
On a brighter note, everything else is quite good! They even offer some cloud things based on nextcloud, but hooking up your own nextcloud instead is easy.
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@hadronized @avlap2 @Gina @GrapheneOS iirc Graphene currenly only runs on Pixels, although wider support is planned. Correct me if I'm wrong.
@iris @hadronized @avlap2 @Gina Pixels are currently the only devices meeting the security requirements for GrapheneOS where installing another OS is fully supported. There will be no support for any other currently available devices due to poor updates and missing hardware-based security features used by GrapheneOS. Broad device support is not a goal of the project but rather contrary to the aims of the project. We're working with a major OEM on their devices supporting it for 2027+ though.
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@iris @hadronized @avlap2 @Gina Pixels are currently the only devices meeting the security requirements for GrapheneOS where installing another OS is fully supported. There will be no support for any other currently available devices due to poor updates and missing hardware-based security features used by GrapheneOS. Broad device support is not a goal of the project but rather contrary to the aims of the project. We're working with a major OEM on their devices supporting it for 2027+ though.
@GrapheneOS @iris @hadronized @avlap2 @Gina it feels totally wrong that in order to escape google you have to buy a google device first… looking forward to 2027. Maybe if GrapheneOS would collaborate with Fairphone something might happen?
