I had a discussion lately regarding smartphones with a buddy.
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@hadronized @Gina Google Pixel with @GrapheneOS ?
@avlap2 @Gina @GrapheneOS does Pixel phones support that kind of OS switch?
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I had a discussion lately regarding smartphones with a buddy. He has a Pine phone IIRC, and I have an iPhone. I’m a huge FOSS advocate, and I have to live with that cognitive dissonance of using a highly proprietary phone.
However, when I look at FOSS phones, I feel that I would lose a lot of services and features. Anyone has leads / learning material? @Gina maybe?
@hadronized @Gina I had the same dissonance, but ultimately decided it's "lesser evil". I tried GrapheneOS on my Pixel and... Well I would have to give up A LOT of convinience, features and just simply frictionless experience, for very little benefit. My phone is a tool. If I need navigation, I need it now, and can't wait for 5-10 minutes for the weird GOS proxy to catch the encrypted pseudo-gps data. All in all - yes, I don't like using stock Android, but alternatives are not "there" yet for me
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I had a discussion lately regarding smartphones with a buddy. He has a Pine phone IIRC, and I have an iPhone. I’m a huge FOSS advocate, and I have to live with that cognitive dissonance of using a highly proprietary phone.
However, when I look at FOSS phones, I feel that I would lose a lot of services and features. Anyone has leads / learning material? @Gina maybe?
@hadronized @Gina I'm in exactly the same boat... and I'm adamant when my iPhone 13 finally is no more that I won't be getting another one.
I have an ancient Samsung Galaxy S7 running e/OS (same alternative Fairphone provide, fork of LineageOS) and it generally works OK as a backup.
I've just ordered a refurbished Google Pixel 8 to give GrapheneOS a go.
And I've also ordered the new Jolla SailfishOS Linux phone more in hope than expectation.
Ultimately it comes down to app support
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@hadronized @Gina I had the same dissonance, but ultimately decided it's "lesser evil". I tried GrapheneOS on my Pixel and... Well I would have to give up A LOT of convinience, features and just simply frictionless experience, for very little benefit. My phone is a tool. If I need navigation, I need it now, and can't wait for 5-10 minutes for the weird GOS proxy to catch the encrypted pseudo-gps data. All in all - yes, I don't like using stock Android, but alternatives are not "there" yet for me
@leniwcowaty @Gina yeah, I see the issue, and it’s what makes me feel hesitant. Something I wonder is that I should probably change the way I see phones, by just using them for what they are (sending texts, calling), and stop using them for social media etc. but that would be a huge change and would feel like a regression to me, especially for listening to music.
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I had a discussion lately regarding smartphones with a buddy. He has a Pine phone IIRC, and I have an iPhone. I’m a huge FOSS advocate, and I have to live with that cognitive dissonance of using a highly proprietary phone.
However, when I look at FOSS phones, I feel that I would lose a lot of services and features. Anyone has leads / learning material? @Gina maybe?
@hadronized @Gina It would be worth looking at @e_mydata
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@hadronized @Gina I'm in exactly the same boat... and I'm adamant when my iPhone 13 finally is no more that I won't be getting another one.
I have an ancient Samsung Galaxy S7 running e/OS (same alternative Fairphone provide, fork of LineageOS) and it generally works OK as a backup.
I've just ordered a refurbished Google Pixel 8 to give GrapheneOS a go.
And I've also ordered the new Jolla SailfishOS Linux phone more in hope than expectation.
Ultimately it comes down to app support
️@hadronized @Gina I might also have a play with postmarketOS if I can find a vaguely modern phone to run it on... but ultimately I want a working phone not a compact pocket computer so we'll see.
Linux based with removable battery, kill switches & decent app support in a useable phone is the goal, hence the Jolla order
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@leniwcowaty @Gina yeah, I see the issue, and it’s what makes me feel hesitant. Something I wonder is that I should probably change the way I see phones, by just using them for what they are (sending texts, calling), and stop using them for social media etc. but that would be a huge change and would feel like a regression to me, especially for listening to music.
@hadronized @Gina exactly that. For basic use, where a phone is a phone and you can get by with very limited selection of apps that don't need Google Play Services, Graphene is super useful and nice. But if the phone is the "command center" of your digital life, and you're pretty much dependent on it working flawlessly, they have a lot more work to do
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@hadronized @Gina I had the same dissonance, but ultimately decided it's "lesser evil". I tried GrapheneOS on my Pixel and... Well I would have to give up A LOT of convinience, features and just simply frictionless experience, for very little benefit. My phone is a tool. If I need navigation, I need it now, and can't wait for 5-10 minutes for the weird GOS proxy to catch the encrypted pseudo-gps data. All in all - yes, I don't like using stock Android, but alternatives are not "there" yet for me
@leniwcowaty @hadronized @Gina that's more about the app and the underlying data than the OS though, isn't it? I'm still on Android but have uninstalled Google Maps, which is indeed extremely difficult to replace!
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I had a discussion lately regarding smartphones with a buddy. He has a Pine phone IIRC, and I have an iPhone. I’m a huge FOSS advocate, and I have to live with that cognitive dissonance of using a highly proprietary phone.
However, when I look at FOSS phones, I feel that I would lose a lot of services and features. Anyone has leads / learning material? @Gina maybe?
@hadronized @Gina having made the move away from iPhone a couple of times with jolla and Linux options and failed, the best choice that retains functionality is Murena eos
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@leniwcowaty @hadronized @Gina that's more about the app and the underlying data than the OS though, isn't it? I'm still on Android but have uninstalled Google Maps, which is indeed extremely difficult to replace!
@meuwese @hadronized @Gina no, it's the OS. Graphene uses sandboxed Google Play Services, pushes all the communication through their proxy and doesn't have full support for everything yet. The combination of these three factors make apps that depend on Google Play Services to work and behave unpredictably and sometimes just simply break.
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@hadronized @Gina I had the same dissonance, but ultimately decided it's "lesser evil". I tried GrapheneOS on my Pixel and... Well I would have to give up A LOT of convinience, features and just simply frictionless experience, for very little benefit. My phone is a tool. If I need navigation, I need it now, and can't wait for 5-10 minutes for the weird GOS proxy to catch the encrypted pseudo-gps data. All in all - yes, I don't like using stock Android, but alternatives are not "there" yet for me
@leniwcowaty @hadronized @Gina
Navigation can normally be planned. That includes downloading the parts of the map that one needs. Also, make sure to have an address of every destination.
It may not be as convenient as doing it at the last possible moment, but it's really easy.
Disclaimer: I've been doing this a lot with paper maps before there were cell phones.
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I had a discussion lately regarding smartphones with a buddy. He has a Pine phone IIRC, and I have an iPhone. I’m a huge FOSS advocate, and I have to live with that cognitive dissonance of using a highly proprietary phone.
However, when I look at FOSS phones, I feel that I would lose a lot of services and features. Anyone has leads / learning material? @Gina maybe?
@hadronized @Gina I'm on the lookout for one that can sandbox proprietary apps. I stumbled across one but forgot which, I'm sorry. My Samsung/Android phone is working fine for now and it's not due for an upgrade until that's no longer the case, but I've also considered getting a super cheap secondhand phone and testing out FOSS on it while I still have a functioning phone running stock Android. It lowers the stakes, I figure.
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@avlap2 @Gina @GrapheneOS does Pixel phones support that kind of OS switch?
@hadronized @avlap2 @Gina @GrapheneOS iirc Graphene currenly only runs on Pixels, although wider support is planned. Correct me if I'm wrong.
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@hadronized unfortunately I'm also still on a Samsung/Android device. But I'd love to switch to a Fairphone some day. I know that there's a bunch of mobile OS's as well, like @postmarketOS and @LineageOS . Will boost your post so others can weigh in.
@Gina @hadronized @postmarketOS @LineageOS
Chiming in as I recently switched my iPhone for a Fairphone 6 with /e/OS, after ~20yrs on apple devices. So far this has worked very well! I have a few things to sort out still, but no dealbreakers. Biggest issue so far has been #vipps, the defacto norwegian/nordic money transfer app. I am able to use it, but for some strange reason it needs to be deleted and reinstalled every week or so. A nuisance, hopefully a temporary one, not a real problem. For navigation I now use CoMaps and/or Organic Maps. I'm in the process of setting up Immich, as a replacement for iCloud photos. Feels great, and I'm discovering new cool stuff all the time. In a few years I'm hoping to be able to install a more "pure" linux OS on the phone, but for now the degoogled android feels like a big step in the right direction, at least for me.Henrik Sørlie (@hsorlie@vivaldi.net)
The last year I’ve been making a conscious effort to pivot away from proprietary/american tech, for a mix of reasons. I’m increasingly worried about #privacy, data collection, data sovereignity, that kind of things. Not wanting to have more or less my entire life stored on servers inside american privacy and data laws jurisdiction. Wanting to support #european tech. And, where possible, a preference for open source #foss #floss #libre software. I’ve been quite in the «apple fanboy» category for the last 20+ years, and deeply buried in the whole iCloud ecosystem. Partly because of Apple’s traditional stance on privacy, and the whole «if a service is free, you’re the product» thing. I used to look forward to #apple event keynotes like others do to football matches. The last handful of iterations of #macOS, #iOS, macs and iPhones has sparked steadily decreasing amounts of enthusiasm from me though. Anyway, the last year has seen me replace most iCloud services with @protonprivacy@mastodon.social , my macbook pro with a @tuxedocomputers@linuxrocks.online infinitybook pro running #linux, and my iPhone with a #Fairphone 6 running @murena@mastodon.social /e/OS. And a patchwork of other services and apps to replace what I used to have. Here's a summary, and some questions to others. 1/n
Vivaldi Social (social.vivaldi.net)
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@leniwcowaty @hadronized @Gina
Navigation can normally be planned. That includes downloading the parts of the map that one needs. Also, make sure to have an address of every destination.
It may not be as convenient as doing it at the last possible moment, but it's really easy.
Disclaimer: I've been doing this a lot with paper maps before there were cell phones.
@KingmaYpe @hadronized @Gina please stop with "back in my day" bs. Why do you drive a car? You can just as easly ride a horse. Or walk.
If I have a device capable of pinpointing my exact location in the span of miliseconds, why would I consider waiting 10 minutes for the same thing acceptable?
Riddle me this - you approach an unpredicted event - a roadblock, a divertion, anything. Can you plan for that ahead of time? I'd rather take out my phone and check the route. Not wait 10 minutes for it
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@KingmaYpe @hadronized @Gina please stop with "back in my day" bs. Why do you drive a car? You can just as easly ride a horse. Or walk.
If I have a device capable of pinpointing my exact location in the span of miliseconds, why would I consider waiting 10 minutes for the same thing acceptable?
Riddle me this - you approach an unpredicted event - a roadblock, a divertion, anything. Can you plan for that ahead of time? I'd rather take out my phone and check the route. Not wait 10 minutes for it
@leniwcowaty @hadronized @Gina
With a preloaded map on the phone it is a good idea to keep the GPS location working while moving about.
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@hadronized @Gina having made the move away from iPhone a couple of times with jolla and Linux options and failed, the best choice that retains functionality is Murena eos
@hadronized @Gina yes it's a compromise but it gets you off Apple with only minor connection to Google. Make sure you open a Curve account as your payment wallet
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@leniwcowaty @hadronized @Gina
With a preloaded map on the phone it is a good idea to keep the GPS location working while moving about.
@KingmaYpe @hadronized @Gina well, if your phone takes 5-10 minutes to lock the location and needs cellular reception or WiFi, because the OS doesn't support actual GPS hardware in your phone, this is not good. And I would argue issues like this can be a dealbreaker for someone who depends on GPS and navigation working flawlessly.
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@meuwese @hadronized @Gina no, it's the OS. Graphene uses sandboxed Google Play Services, pushes all the communication through their proxy and doesn't have full support for everything yet. The combination of these three factors make apps that depend on Google Play Services to work and behave unpredictably and sometimes just simply break.
@leniwcowaty @hadronized @Gina right, but using Google Play services to run a Google navigation tool on Graphene... what's the advantage of that? I understand that the OS makes it impossible to do this, but I don't understand why you'd want to? If you're using Google apps anyway, why not stay on Android?
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I had a discussion lately regarding smartphones with a buddy. He has a Pine phone IIRC, and I have an iPhone. I’m a huge FOSS advocate, and I have to live with that cognitive dissonance of using a highly proprietary phone.
However, when I look at FOSS phones, I feel that I would lose a lot of services and features. Anyone has leads / learning material? @Gina maybe?
@hadronized @Gina in Denmark you struggle to exist without either iPhone or some supported android device.
Citizen digital signing service is an app (physical token CAN be obtained).
Public transport is also requiring* an app (physical card CAN be bought).
Our pay-from-mobile stopped working on liberated Android due to googles latest shenanigans.
Digital post, doesn’t work either. Can be accessed from a web browser.It is highly inconvenient to use software NOT made by either Apple or Google.
